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EMR Class 222’s - declining reliability

43096

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The loss of unit 103 from the pool maybe down to the fact it is in really poor condition - beyond economical repair
It is clearly not beyond economical repair as Beacon have signed a contract to lease it to ScotRail. Beacon will expect it back in an acceptable condition as per the lease - EMR have to repair it.
 
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Railperf

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What is your assertion of "maybe" beyond economical repair based on?
When units start going off-lease, the ones chosen for withdrawal tend to be those either with serious defects or running out of hours before a costly exam to the train / engines etc.
 

liamf656

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When units start going off-lease, the ones chosen for withdrawal tend to be those either with serious defects or running out of hours before a costly exam to the train / engines etc.
It's the first one going because it's non-standard as are 101-103, then the rest should be going in number order. It won't be anything to do with the condition they're in
 

Railperf

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It's the first one going because it's non-standard as are 101-103, then the rest should be going in number order. It won't be anything to do with the condition they're in
why would they go in number order if some units with a lower unit number have longer to go before major exam compared to a higher number unit with major exams looming?
 

liamf656

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why would they go in number order if some units with a lower unit number have longer to go before major exam compared to a higher number unit with major exams looming?
It's just what I've been told by others more in the know. You or I won't know which unit is due an exam and when, or if they really will leave in a certain order (hence my use of the word 'should', not 'will')
 

ChilliSauce

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It is clearly not beyond economical repair as Beacon have signed a contract to lease it to ScotRail. Beacon will expect it back in an acceptable condition as per the lease - EMR have to repair it.
Or send it back with a very large bag of compensation money
 

Denis103

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222015 in trouble on 0900 Sheffield to StP. Fire alarm gone off on coach 2 (the combined 1st/2nd). Engine shut down and smoke outside. Train stopped between Luton and Luton Airport
 

Andy Pacer

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222015 in trouble on 0900 Sheffield to StP. Fire alarm gone off on coach 2 (the combined 1st/2nd). Engine shut down and smoke outside. Train stopped between Luton and Luton Airport
At least its in a section where the slow lines can be used to pass, somewhat better than the Market Harborough breakdowns recently!
 

duffield

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At least its in a section where the slow lines can be used to pass, somewhat better than the Market Harborough breakdowns recently!
Yes, E.g. 1C32 0935 Sheffield to London St Pancras has just passed through Luton Airport Parkway on the slow line sandwiched between two Thameslink services.

Edit: 1C29 0900 Sheffield to London St Pancras now on the move, I guess the problem wasn't too serious and the smoke has cleared!
 

Denis103

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222015 now on move. Hey can't cancel Alarms in galley. Engine under coach 2 still shut down.
 

occone

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On 222015 today after the indicent on the WCML.

Have to say, compared to taking these in the 2010s, they strike me as good as they were back then though the cleanliness has taken a nosedive.

It seems fairly clear to me they don't care for these trains as they once did.
 
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Andy Pacer

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Interesting one this morning, 5D11 Cricklewood - St Pancras 10 car usually splits to form 1F10 and 1D11, seems to be running as a 10 car on 1F10 (222017 + 222102) as far as Derby where 222102 will be detached. Presumably need to get it back to Etches Park.

1D11 is subsequently cancelled.
 

apinnard

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222007 on 1B19 pulling out of Kettering seemed very lethargic just now. Also, no engine noise at all under 2 of the 5 coaches.
 

Merle Haggard

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222103 seems to have had its damaged nose repaired - passing Etches park it was in its usual place but with a freshly painted and apparently complete front end.
 

tram21

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222013 had a complete power failure at Nottingham this morning, locking people onboard as doors stopped working. We did end up leaving (a little late) but definitely a few engines missing.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

222102 has failed at Loughborough on the 1050 from Nottingham, blocking the line for 80 minutes until passengers were detained at Loughborough for transfer onto an alternative service.
 
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londonmidland

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222007 arrived into London St Pancras three hours late, due to an air leak. Several other 222s and 810s have also failed today. Severe delays and cancellations across the London-Sheffield/Nottingham routes until the end of the day.
 

WesternLancer

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. All this time, nothing was done to the 222s (new seat cloths aside) given that there was no point doing anything if they were to go back in several months’ time, then 810s delayed & consequently having to eek things out in terms of 222 maintenance.
This especially annoys me - it's obvious that those trains were going to end up going somewhere, given the UK wide diesel trains shortage (another topic) - so why does the system of contracts and ownership result in them being run into he ground with passengers paying the same level of fares to ride in increasingly tatty trains with multiple features that don't work very well / reliably? They might as well have commenced renovation whoever was going to take them on.
All the funding for that work would have ultimately been tax payer funded whoever won the 2024 general election, so that work could have been commenced at a suitable rate some years ago, safe in the knowledge that the train sets would have a future on some service or other in the UK at an appropriate point.

Or did someone in charge think these Meridian trains were part of the Wessex Electrics fleet? ;)
 

43096

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This especially annoys me - it's obvious that those trains were going to end up going somewhere, given the UK wide diesel trains shortage (another topic) - so why does the system of contracts and ownership result in them being run into he ground with passengers paying the same level of fares to ride in increasingly tatty trains with multiple features that don't work very well / reliably? They might as well have commenced renovation whoever was going to take them on.
All the funding for that work would have ultimately been tax payer funded whoever won the 2024 general election, so that work could have been commenced at a suitable rate some years ago, safe in the knowledge that the train sets would have a future on some service or other in the UK at an appropriate point.

Or did someone in charge think these Meridian trains were part of the Wessex Electrics fleet? ;)
It may be "obvious" but when you're spending several £million on refurbishment you need a contract signed guaranteeing a return on the investment. If you were Eversholt/Beacon's commercial director, would you sign that refurbishment contract without a lease signed up?
 

WesternLancer

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It may be "obvious" but when you're spending several £million on refurbishment you need a contract signed guaranteeing a return on the investment. If you were Eversholt/Beacon's commercial director, would you sign that refurbishment contract without a lease signed up?
Maybe not - but then that is the fault of the 'guiding mind' of the railway - which is the govt - who could remove that risk from the commercial director's mind - and should have done in the best interest of the taxpayer - who are paying for all this and the passenger, who has to put up with declining service quality for the same or higher fares.

It would have been a pretty low risk decision on the part of a railway leasing company's commercial director.

Might have helped mitigate other risks to their business - like the public and politicians getting so fed up with these sort of utility type companies taking profits but providing very little at no risk at all, that they decide to intervene and call time on this sort of pretend risk taking business model...

a more commercial approach would see the leasing company losing money for the non provision of the agreed product - in this case the 810 not the 222 (ie them taking some risk) or the client saying - 'forget this - the product is not up to the job were walking away' and will get something else thanks very much. But as we know there is no alternative - so in fact there is actually no or very little risk at all - in fact the opposite - the leasing company gets to keep renting out a train in an ever declining state to the railway company safe in the knowledge that the railway company has no other alternative.

It looks like a risk free business model to me...
 
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Trainman40083

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Maybe not - but then that is the fault of the 'guiding mind' of the railway - which is the govt - who could remove that risk from the commercial director's mind - and should have done in the best interest of the taxpayer - who are paying for all this and the passenger, who has to put up with declining service quality for the same or higher fares.

It would have been a pretty low risk decision on the part of a railway leasing company's commercial director.

Might have helped mitigate other risks to their business - like the public and politicians getting so fed up with these sort of utility type companies taking profits but providing very little at no risk at all, that they decide to intervene and call time on this sort of pretend risk taking business model...
The joys of cost plus 2% contracts, where the DfT determines what costs you incur. Going forward, we will probably see a lot of cost taken out of the railway. A take it or lose it position.
 

Potteries 323

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The best system was in British Rail days when they owned all the trains and everything else.No silly expensive lease contracts then,thats why there was always plenty of spare stock at holiday times costing nothing as its value had been written down over the years.Take Northern paying lease costs of £500,000 a year for a 40 year old Sprinter and ripping of the taxpayer.Under BR they would be nil value now!
 

tram21

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There are lots of cancellations this evening with subsequent trains cancelled too. Does anyone know why- is it 222 or 810 failures?
 

Merle Haggard

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The day started with the 0606 Kettering Nottingham (booked 222) cancelled 'problem at the depot'. The subsequent passenger working, the Up Melton was also cancelled.
Hardly unusual - cancelled 3 days out of 5 last week, similar level of cancellation before that.
 

Trainman40083

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The best system was in British Rail days when they owned all the trains and everything else.No silly expensive lease contracts then,thats why there was always plenty of spare stock at holiday times costing nothing as its value had been written down over the years.Take Northern paying lease costs of £500,000 a year for a 40 year old Sprinter and ripping of the taxpayer.Under BR they would be nil value now!
Is that £500,000 covering the frequent maintenance costs of a 40 year old unit?
 

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