EMR Class 222’s - declining reliability

[ChilliSauce]

222007 has failed at Market Harborough while forming 1D08 0633 St Pancras International to Nottingham.
Currently blocking the line with 1F10 and 1D11 sat behind it.
RTT says "a problem with the traction equipment (MD)."

Corby diversions are already in action, plus some cancellations etc. of course.

Edit: Failed unit now on the move north as 5D08.

And then the 07.32 from Pancras to Sheffield after diverting via Corby & Manton got cancelled at Derby ... So it seems zero customer service today from EMR for punters wanting Sheffield. BTW, the next Pancras / Sheffield after the Corby divert got capped at Chesterfield ... Asking myself.. do EMR actually want to serve Sheffield or happy to leave it to other operators ?

I was wondering earlier today if I should "risk it" on EMR. Then decided driving over to the ECML for LNER would be the best option. And the LNER onboard service outstrips anything EMR can muster up..

 

[LowLevel]

And then the 07.32 from Pancras to Sheffield after diverting via Corby & Manton got cancelled at Derby ... So it seems zero customer service today from EMR for punters wanting Sheffield. BTW, the next Pancras / Sheffield after the Corby divert got capped at Chesterfield ... Asking myself.. do EMR actually want to serve Sheffield or happy to leave it to other operators ?

I was wondering earlier today if I should "risk it" on EMR. Then decided driving over to the ECML for LNER would be the best option. And the LNER onboard service outstrips anything EMR can muster up..

Do you keep the heavily delayed trains all day or turn them back saving at least 30 minutes to try and recover the service especially with the frequent service from Chesterfield to Sheffield.

 

[Pippy1505]

Looks like 222104 next to depart EMR! Stopping Tonight

 

[LowLevel]

Looks like 222104 next to depart EMR! Stopping Tonight

That's a shame, it has lower capacity with the extra First Class coach but it's always seemed a consistently good runner.

 

[CR165022]

The ones to ScotRail are already going? I thought it was just the Lumo ones going for now?

 

[liamf656]

The ones to ScotRail are already going? I thought it was just the Lumo ones going for now?

All 222s will be gone from the EMR fleet by 31/12/26

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Apr 2026 ==

222104's diagram for today if anyone's after it

DY507
5B16 0606 XEP NOT 0644
1B16 0712 NOT STP 0857
1D23 0935 STP NOT 1109
1B43 1150 NOT STP 1327
1D46 1405 STP NOT 1549
1B98 1612 NOT STP 1805
1D99 1835 STP NOT 2024
1B96 2048 NOT STP 2239
1F87 2304 STP DBY 0204
5F87 0218 DBY XEP 0231

 

[Potteries 323]

Looks like 222104 next to depart EMR! Stopping Tonight

Any idea which ones are going next?

 

[RiverDon]

The ones to ScotRail are already going? I thought it was just the Lumo ones going for now?

They're starting the handback to the lease company for the Scotrail ones now, then they go away for maintenance and refurbishment. From what I've read the first unrefurbished unit for driver training should arrive with Scotrail around December 2026/January 2027 then the first refurbished one should arrive in August 2027.

 

[Travelmonkey]

all told we need the Aroura's and stat, it does seem foolhardy to have fleet going off lease when there are major gaps appearing, something will have to give somewhere,

 

[LowLevel]

all told we need the Aroura's and stat, it does seem foolhardy to have fleet going off lease when there are major gaps appearing, something will have to give somewhere,

You can only maintain so many trains at the depot though. As 810s come in 222s have to go out, even with the reliability issues - there isn't room to stable and maintain an unlimited number of trains.

 

[Travelmonkey]

You can only maintain so many trains at the depot though. As 810s come in 222s have to go out, even with the reliability issues - there isn't room to stable and maintain an unlimited number of trains.

fair point, at least we aren't at the stage of poaching Eastcroft's 170s need to be sent to St pancrass (yet) although it does seem to be a ongoing situation like rearanging deck chairs on the titanic, I am hoping as more 810s come online it will sort things, although have they even ran in multiple in revenue yet?

 

[liamf656]

Any idea which ones are going next?

101-103 should be going after 104, theoretically. Not sure what order however. Although don't take it for gospel as the /1s were originally the last ones on the list to go!

 

[Amos390]

Do we know now where exactly the SR 222s are going, will they go straight to a factory for the refurb or will they go into driver training for a bit?

 

[scotraildriver]

Do we know now where exactly the SR 222s are going, will they go straight to a factory for the refurb or will they go into driver training for a bit?

The first 3 are expected in May 2027 and will be used in unrefurbished state for driver training. The fourth unit will go straight for refurbishment.

 

[Mikw]

Yesterday i had the pleasure or riding a 222 from Sheffield to Leicester. It was already 24 minutes late arriving into Sheffield because of the signal failures in the Nottingham area.
I sat in the rearmost carriage, the engine wasn't working on this carriage. I can only liken the sensation to riding on Class 43, virtual silence and fairly leisurely acceleration.
Think we were about 30 minutes late arriving in Leicester so no massive loss in timings (given the already late start). Didn't get the fleet number though.

 

[720144]

Any idea which ones are going next?

I’m hoping 007 is next sent off after the pioneers as it hasn’t been a reliable runner this year.

 

[Railperf]

101-103 should be going after 104, theoretically. Not sure what order however. Although don't take it for gospel as the /1s were originally the last ones on the list to go!

Is there a reason the /1's are going first?

 

[liamf656]

Is there a reason the /1's are going first?

Makes sense to get rid of the non-standard members of the fleet first I suppose

 

[DannyMich2018]

Is there a reason the /1's are going first?

Something to do with first class different layout capacity hence more non standard compared to others. I'm sure our friend liamf656 can explain better?

 

[liamf656]

Something to do with first class different layout capacity hence more non standard compared to others. I'm sure our friend liamf656 can explain better?

I believe that's mainly the case. I know it's difficult to tell which seats are first class and which are declassified because the labels keep getting removed, or units 101/102 not having enough first class seats.

It may also be possible that behind the scenes they are troublesome units being formed differently to the other 5 car units (for example on two units the 606 vehicle is coach B but for the rest of the units it's C)

 

[Amos390]

Could it also have something to do with how the 222s might be remembered as 222/5 with Scotrail, and current 222101-104 will for 222501-504, then 222006-023 will form 222506-523, therefore making the /1s the first units of the new sub-class?

 

[liamf656]

Could it also have something to do with how the 222s might be remembered as 222/5 with Scotrail, and current 222101-104 will for 222501-504, then 222006-023 will form 222506-523, therefore making the /1s the first units of the new sub-class?

Where is it confirmed that they'll be 222/5?

 

[Amos390]

Where is it confirmed that they'll be 222/5?

It’s mentioned, but not formally confirmed (hence why I put might be remembered) a few times in this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/222-contract-for-scotrail-announced.299990/page-5

 

[liamf656]

It’s mentioned, but not formally confirmed (hence why I put might be remembered) a few times in this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/222-contract-for-scotrail-announced.299990/page-5

I doubt they'll change the numbers of the Scotrail units. It seems that people have taken some AI photos for gospel, but we'll see

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I doubt they'll change the numbers of the Scotrail units. It seems that people have taken some AI photos for gospel, but we'll see

Well... 222 001 has become 222 601 for Lumo, so it's quite possible ScotRail will want their own numbering sequence?

 

[RiverDon]

Surely it's the leasing company's decision to change the numbers since they own the things? Or is that not how it works?

 

[Mag_seven]

Just a gentle reminder that this thread is for the discussion of the existing EMR Class 222 fleet reliability.

Discussion of the transfer to Scotrail should be made in this thread:

222 contract for Scotrail: updates (not speculation)

Alstom just revealed it has the 10 year refurbishment and maintenance contract for 222s for Scotrail (option to extend to March 2042) so move to Scotland now official 19 Mar 2026 Alstom secures long-term train services and refurbishment contracts for £330 million[1] (€380 million) with...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Stephen42]

fair point, at least we aren't at the stage of poaching Eastcroft's 170s need to be sent to St pancrass (yet) although it does seem to be a ongoing situation like rearanging deck chairs on the titanic, I am hoping as more 810s come online it will sort things, although have they even ran in multiple in revenue yet?

While not ideal, the current situation isn't anywhere near that bleak. An extra 810 diagram is planned for next week, that should reduce the availability target for 222s by 1 with 1 fewer unit. That would be a lower utilisation percentage for 222s than last week.

The 222s seem pretty reliable in general when not being asked for 90%+ utilisation. The only unit currently out of service looks to be 222103 which was external factors as previously mentioned. The main thing for 222 reliability will be that every time a unit goes that another diagram is reliably covered by the 810s. Any fleet when stretched becomes less reliable as any failure ends up with more consequential impact on the rest of the fleet.

 

[Railperf]

It was agreed back up the thread that a reliable service relied on the full fleet of 222's being available - so that some units could be in reserve or receiving planned maintenance.

The loss of five units to Lumo clearly stretched resources - along with the unreliable performance of the initial batch of 810's.

The improvement in Class 810 reliability combined with the introduction of a fifth class 810 diagram - whilst welcome - doesn't mean the 222 units that remain are needed any less.

The loss of unit 104 from the pool maybe down to the fact it is in really poor condition - beyond economical repair (possibly requiring major overhaul?)

And hopefully there are now enough 810's in reserve to substitute a faulty 810 with another one rather than dragging a 222 out or having nothing to substitute it with.

The remaining Class 222 units probably need some extraordinary maintenance to get them running closer to the reliability levels they were at a year ago.

But with Etches Park filling up with 810's and resources stretched with Hitachi's priority to get the 810's into service, I wonder whether Class 222 reliability will ever reach the heights we were used to.

 

[D365]

The loss of unit 103 from the pool maybe down to the fact it is in really poor condition - beyond economical repair

What is your assertion of "maybe" beyond economical repair based on?