DLR B23 Stock (CAF Inneo)

[Snow1964]

New info in TfL Board papers for next weeks Safety committee

The detail of what was found and been tweaked is probably in non-public part 2, but appears current status is

3.3 reintroduction into service sometime May to September 2026

3.4 Investigations progressed well, testing was February to May

3.5 current status appears to be engaging with ORR on plans for reintroduction

https://board.tfl.gov.uk/documents/s26238/ssp-20260520-item06-dlr-b23%20-trains-status-update.pdf

I read that as TfL ready to reintroduce the trains, but waiting for ORR approval sign off. Not sure how much midnight oil ORR burns to expedite this process or if it will take weeks/months

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 May 2026 ==

Per latest TfL Board papers, Commissioners Report

page 17. "..... phased reintroduction expected to begin by late summer"

https://board.tfl.gov.uk/documents/s26292/Appendix%201%20Commissioners%20Report%20May%202026.pdf

Seems to be inconsistent with the above May to September, late summer rather suggests end August or during September

 

[Taunton]

Seems to be inconsistent with the above May to September, late summer rather suggests end August or during September

I think we had the same sort of generalised dates last year, and the first train was got going on the last possible day, September 30th. I guess the same will apply this time.

We still seem to have the same incessant sequence of weekend closures which have much reduced any value of the system outside weekdays. The Tower Gateway to Shadwell branch still seems the most affected

 

[Geogregor]

The Tower Gateway to Shadwell branch still seems the most affected

It might be partially due to construction of the building above the tracks.

This one:

20260310_165021(0) by Geogregor*, on Flickr

 

[Mattplans]

The Tower Gateway to Shadwell branch still seems the most affected

Are they reversing at Poplar or diverting to Bank nowadays? I was at Bank on 26/12 and I'm pretty sure I saw a Beckton train departing from there.

* Oops, noticed you said Shadwell. I thought it was Beckton!

 

[Taunton]

Three more days of closure of the east end of the system this coming weekend, including a non-holiday weekend Friday, along with no replacement buses provided. Those were always quite well used for weekend closure, but now it's use the regular buses - except that those over time have been reduced to basic north-south routes, deliberately because east-west uses the DLR here. I presume just money being saved by not having replacement buses. There's an inconsequential last line on the closure notice that "Normal bus fares will apply".

And if they're out testing how good the new trains are at stopping in the wet, looks like they've chosen the wrong weekend again ...

 

[TheManWho]

Three more days of closure of the east end of the system this coming weekend, including a non-holiday weekend Friday, along with no replacement buses provided. Those were always quite well used for weekend closure, but now it's use the regular buses - except that those over time have been reduced to basic north-south routes, deliberately because east-west uses the DLR here. I presume just money being saved by not having replacement buses. There's an inconsequential last line on the closure notice that "Normal bus fares will apply".

And if they're out testing how good the new trains are at stopping in the wet, looks like they've chosen the wrong weekend again ...

Low adhesion can be replicated, even in dry weather, with a solution applied to the running rails

 

[Recessio]

Low adhesion can be replicated, even in dry weather, with a solution applied to the running rails

I'm sure I remember reading a story on these forums of someone meany years ago, who as a young apprentice was tasked with applying washing up liquid to the New Guildford line on a quiet Sunday...

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

And if they're out testing how good the new trains are at stopping in the wet, looks like they've chosen the wrong weekend again ...

You don't need wet weather to test low adhesion conditions.

Water hoses for brake testing on the leading bogie of Siemens 725M

Photographs of trains and railway infrastructure from around Victoria, Australia

railgallery.wongm.com

Just attach a hose to the front to spray soap or water on the track.

 

[Mojo]

Just seen one of the “new” trains at Canning Town, so looks like they’re undergoing testing during this weekend’s closure.

 

[Taunton]

Just seen one of the “new” trains at Canning Town, so looks like they’re undergoing testing during this weekend’s closure.

At the present time it seems some parts of the system may as well have retreated to 5-day week operation. Goodness knows what any "test plan" looks like or how long this is all going to be going on for. Has it been two, or three, years since the first ones were delivered?

None of this stops large posters at stations claiming 99.999999 service reliability.

 

[Snow1964]

Likely be an update by Tuesday evening when latest TfL Board Programmes and Investment Committee papers are published for 1st July meeting. Although staff might choose to tell the Board something vague and lacking detail regarding timescale for trains to enter service.

Board papers from few weeks/months ago show big unbudgeted costs for the delay, and reading between the lines, suggests TfL (rather than CAF) are having to absorb cost, which suggests D23s are meeting contractual spec and delivery. Even looks like TfL are paying CAF to store the trains in Spain as apparently all built. However the wording in public papers is fluffy and avoids actually saying that TfL got trains built to spec that didn't match their infrastructure and signal braking distances.

Meetings - Programmes and Investment Committee - Modern Council

board.tfl.gov.uk

 

[81A]

I’d imagine passengers will be missing the aircon the next few days… What is holding up introduction now? If TFL are paying presumably a signalling/other infrastructure issue and not an issue with the B23s themselves?

 

[Snow1964]

I’d imagine passengers will be missing the aircon the next few days… What is holding up introduction now? If TFL are paying presumably a signalling/other infrastructure issue and not an issue with the B23s themselves?

TfL seem to know reasons, but aren't making it public, as per this snippet from latest Board committee papers, section 8.1.3

This investigation remains ongoing with our supply chain and relevant regulators, but our initial findings indicate a combination of factors contributed to the incident. Further details are provided in the paper on Part 2 of the agenda.

https://board.tfl.gov.uk/documents/s26563/pic-20260701-item05-part%201-IPR.pdf

The minutes of previous meeting also give some clues, which I read as problem was TfL didn't understand its infrastructure (presumably signalling and braking distance), the new trains met spec so TfL pays, but train spec wasn't matched to infrastructure, so either trains or parts of the infrastructure (or both) now needed modifying.

Good progress had also been made with managing costs of the programme in line with the authorities approved by the Committee. The costs of investigating and resolving the cause of the incident at Canning Town was currently being assessed and any request for an increase in Authority would be brought back to the Committee.

The Committee noted the paper and the exempt supplementary information on Part 2 of the agenda; and noted that the values for which Authorities have been given and set out in the paper included commitments that extended beyond the period of the 2026/27 Budget, which was subject to approval by the Board, and the 2026 TfL Business Plan. Provision would, therefore, need to be made for those commitments in future budgets and business plans

https://board.tfl.gov.uk/documents/s26536/pic-20260305-draft-minutes.pdf

The Board papers now seem to say hoping to reintroduce new trains sometime between May and September. Clearly May didn't happen and now in last week of June. And anyway says hoping to which doesn't sound like definite in that timescale

 

[Taunton]

I said 18 months ago on this thread (post 501) that the DLR management and technical staff just don't know how to handle this. And that's still my opinion. Further, reading the above, they are just issuing wiffle-waffle to the TfL Board, who equally appear unable to challenge the blandness.

Quite how "good progress with managing the costs of the programme" can be said at a point where the programme ought to be finished and wound up just escapes me, and probably escapes anyone else who has managed a project as well. Any word in the minutes about all the weekend journeys for us locals who live along the DLR being lost?

 

[81A]

the new trains met spec so TfL pays, but train spec wasn't matched to infrastructure, so either trains or parts of the infrastructure (or both) now needed modifying.

Train spec not matched to infrastructure?! You really couldn't make things like this up. Definitely fair for TFL to pay in that case though...

 

[Taunton]

Train spec not matched to infrastructure?! You really couldn't make things like this up. Definitely fair for TFL to pay in that case though...

Although you might hope the builder would notice, they must have made multiple trips to the DLR to see it in detail, and are supposed to be professional in this sort of thing.

Thinking they would go to CAF to save a bit on price compared to their old hands at Bombardier/Siemens, who had done multiple previous DLR builds and knew what they were doing is ending up costing TfL (and those of use who live on the line) very dear indeed. I do wonder what the National Audit Office will say.

 

[Recessio]

Although you might hope the builder would notice, they must have made multiple trips to the DLR to see it in detail, and are supposed to be professional in this sort of thing.

Thinking they would go to CAF to save a bit on price compared to their old hands at Bombardier/Siemens, who had done multiple previous DLR builds and knew what they were doing is ending up costing TfL (and those of use who live on the line) very dear indeed. I do wonder what the National Audit Office will say.

But if TfL are the ones who misspecified the spec - rather than CAF not meeting the spec - how is that CAF's fault and how would Siemens/Bombardier have done any better?

 

[35B]

But if TfL are the ones who misspecified the spec - rather than CAF not meeting the spec - how is that CAF's fault and how would Siemens/Bombardier have done any better?

Absolutely. The customer are ultimately responsible for specifying the requirements so have to bear responsibility of what they buy performs to spec but can’t be used because of a deficient spec

 

[Thirteen]

Alstom or Siemens would have likely faced similar issues.

 

[Wolfie]

Alstom or Siemens would have likely faced similar issues.

Well, if they'd built to spec (and not doing so potentially involves a world of hurt but some on here seem to think that should be the case) anyway....

 

[Mattplans]

Tower Gateway closures have been due to "third party works"





as per https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/dlr/improving-the-dlr

I think it was mentioned upthread that it may have been in connection with a local development? That might be the case. I wonder if they have to compensate TfL

 

[SynthD]

They do. It’s the Royal Mint Street works, the east half was built during closures several years ago.

https://www.steelconstruction.info/images/d/dd/NSC_April_26_88_Royal_Mint_Street_London_1.pdf

Some construction-targeted detail in this pdf, including that there is a courtyard over the tunnel to keep it lightweight.

“Although the main part of the project is concrete-

framed, steelwork has provided the most efficient

solution to form two transfer structures that support

the building. By working closely with Network Rail

and TfL we have managed to find an efficient method

of installing this structure, while minimising the

effect on transport infrastructure,” explains Midgard

Project Director Andrew Henderson.

 

[Snow1964]

The latest TfL Board Finance report is showing the damaging effect of additional line closures for testing the new trains.

Per page 4, DLR journeys are 8% lower than previous year.

As this is in a Board Finance document, it is obviously on TfLs radar, even if there is no comment or explanation why (the comment is combined with one saying Trams 8% up) which rather masks significance of DLR fall

https://board.tfl.gov.uk/documents/s26733/Appendix%201%20Finance%20Report%20P2%20202627.pdf

 

[Geogregor]

So, are we betting when we will see these trains in service? 2027? 2028? 2058?

 

[DGP]

The latest TfL Board Finance report is showing the damaging effect of additional line closures for testing the new trains.

Per page 4, DLR journeys are 8% lower than previous year.

As this is in a Board Finance document, it is obviously on TfLs radar, even if there is no comment or explanation why (the comment is combined with one saying Trams 8% up) which rather masks significance of DLR fall

https://board.tfl.gov.uk/documents/s26733/Appendix%201%20Finance%20Report%20P2%20202627.pdf

Replied but got my Maths wrong. Very wrong!

 

[Mikey C]

So, are we betting when we will see these trains in service? 2027? 2028? 2058?

And in October of that year, so that passengers don't get the benefit of aircon in the summer months...

 

[E16 Cyclist]

There's an inconsequential last line on the closure notice that "Normal bus fares will apply".

Basically expecting people to pay twice for what’s normally one journey. DLR are very good at doing that

 

[Wolfie]

Basically expecting people to pay twice for what’s normally one journey. DLR are very good at doing that

Not only DLR where inadequate rail replacement is in place.

 

[Zeremony]

Basically expecting people to pay twice for what’s normally one journey. DLR are very good at doing that

Having ridden on a lot of the rail replacement buses during DLR closures, they are all free.

My biggest gripe with them is them not running during Prince Regent to Beckton closures.

 

[Redistou]

Lewisham<>Bank and Lewisham <> both seem to have dropped down to less than 12 trains / hr. Poor travellers like me trying to Lewisham <> Stratford are being triple hit; Direct has been replaced by a change that often doesn't co-incide, the trains are fuller than before and changing half way through means a bun fight getting on to a new train mid-service. Ive mostly switched to cycling and last time I tried it took nearly an hour to complete the journey. (5:20 at stratford <> 6:10 at lewisham )