Why are some coach letters skipped on trains with lettered coaches ?

[sabanda]

Do the Portsmouth services have seat reservations?

 

[MontyP]

Was the missing F connected to the conversion from 8 car to 9 car possibly?
There isn't an I of course, take it as fat finger.

Was it for compatibility during the switchover from the loco-hauled MK3 sets? If I remember rightly, a lot of those had 6 x Standard Open carriages (A-F), then 1 x Buffet First and either 2 or 3 First Opens. None of the Pendolinos had 6 standard class cars when first introduced.

 

[hexagon789]

Was it for compatibility during the switchover from the loco-hauled MK3 sets? If I remember rightly, a lot of those had 6 x Standard Open carriages (A-F), then 1 x Buffet First and either 2 or 3 First Opens. None of the Pendolinos had 6 standard class cars when first introduced.

The Mk3 sets under Virgin normally had 4 or 5 Standards, with 2 or 3 Firsts (making 8 or 9 + DVT) and the 2F sets usually 5 Standards and 3 Firsts (making 9 + DVT).

 

[MrJeeves]

Do the Portsmouth services have seat reservations?

Nope.

 

[YorksLad12]

I quite like the way LNER has done things on the class 800/801 sets (though it does lock you in to 5-, 9- or 10-car formats). If you're in cars D or E you must be in a five-car set. If car F, the standard part-coach of a five-car set. D and K are always part-First, part-Standard. The taxonomist in me approves, and since Hitachi only do full trains not additional vehicles, the fives won't be turning into 7s any time soon.

 

[OLJR]

Back in the day when I first started taking GNER, the 125 was J to M at the London end. There was J-L-M on most services, missing the K. The Tyne-Tees Pullman had J-K-L-M with the K. J was always the Restaurant and M the smoking carriage. I imagine this made it easier for passengers requiring these services to make the appropriate reservation.

 

[styles]

I think they should ranomise them. PBXAKFYCULJT. Keep people on their toes.

 

[johnr57]

I think they should ranomise them. PBXAKFYCULJT. Keep people on their toes.

U - still unreserved then?

And maybe split the 1st class through the formation

 

[styles]

U - still unreserved then?

U - Unsociable.

It's the designated carriage for people who scroll TikTok with loud speaker on.

 

[Krokodil]

U - Unsociable.

It's the designated carriage for people who scroll TikTok with loud speaker on.

I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that (in the absence of such a designated "loud coach"), such behaviour should be a capital offence.

 

[CC 72100]

Do the Portsmouth services have seat reservations?

Seat reservations on CDF-PMH went during Covid and never returned. The 166s were even fitted with paper reservation holders which saw light/non-use in the end.

Back in the 3 car 158 days there were seat reservations on these days and also on the Brightons.

 

[mmh]

I think they should ranomise them. PBXAKFYCULJT. Keep people on their toes.

Not far off the letters on Avanti 805s. ABCDJLMNPK. Well of course, where else would you expect K to be?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 May 2026 ==

Seat reservations on CDF-PMH

Ideal coach lettering there!

 

[NEDdrv]

4-car XC Voyagers are ACDF with 221s having the unreserved seating in coach B. If I remember correctly, the 607 and 608 vehicles were swapped, putting the 'new' large luggage storage area (former buffet) in Coach D rather than directly behind first class. They have also been swapped on the ex-Avanti sets which of course retain their buffets for now.

XC voyager coaches were never swapped around 607 has always been next to 603, just the shop was removed and replaced by storag.

 

[sabanda]

XC voyager coaches were never swapped around 607 has always been next to 603, just the shop was removed and replaced by storag.

My mistake - was it just the ex-Avanti ones which were swapped then?

 

[Falcon1200]

I think they should ranomise them. PBXAKFYCULJT. Keep people on their toes.

Given that I've seen passengers walk the full length of a Pendolino at Glasgow Central and then ask where coach A is (at the buffers!) I'm not sure it would make much difference.

 

[D1537]

Given that I've seen passengers walk the full length of a Pendolino at Glasgow Central and then ask where coach A is (at the buffers!) I'm not sure it would make much difference.

I was at Kings Cross on one of the days when the ECML fell apart earlier this year and our train was a 9-car vice 2x5-car. It was explained by the LNER gateline staff that the coach letters would be different and they should sit anywhere they wanted as the reservations will of course be switched off. So I'm on the train and a woman asks me where Coach F is, I explain that there isn't a Coach F because of the problems and her best bet might be to sit in Coach C (the normally unreserved one) or Coach J (as that doesn't exist on a 2x5-car). She wanders off and five minutes later comes back and says "I still can't find Coach F, which way is it?" This was a clearly intelligent woman in a business suit ...

 

[Krokodil]

This was a clearly intelligent woman in a business suit ...

A joke sign that was circulating around the internet a few years ago:

"Upon entering this railway station, it is compulsory to suspend the use of independent thinking, common sense and even the smallest iota of geographical knowledge.

In addition, all automated visual and audio information must be ignored, and it is necessary to ask a member of staff the same question at least three times before disregarding the answer offered."

 

[Skie]

Coach U on the Pendos stood for unreserved as when they were expanded to 11 coaches the U was one of the unreserved coaches.

As others have said I is not used a lot as in some fonts it can easily be confused with a 1.

That may be the official excuse when questioned by someone without a sense of humour, but Virgin had a cheeky streak and FU was evidence of that.

 

[317 forever]

I think they should ranomise them. PBXAKFYCULJT. Keep people on their toes.

That could almost be an acronym for what people really think of the railways

 

[The Quincunx]

I think they should ranomise them. PBXAKFYCULJT. Keep people on their toes.

I was on an 8-car Voyager on Friday that went FDCALJLIG, which is near enough random.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I was on an 8-car Voyager on Friday that went FDCALJLIG, which is near enough random.

It's two sets, both reversed and each the wrong way round. Not random.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

It's two sets, both reversed and each the wrong way round. Not random.

Both reversed, and the wrong way round, and skips letters (B,E,H,K) and rear 220s have a weird letting already with JLIG which isn't even in the right order either way round.
Seems "near enough random" to me.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Both reversed, and the wrong way round, and skips letters (B,E,H,K) and rear 220s have a weird letting already with JLIG which isn't even in the right order either way round.
Seems "near enough random" to me.

It appears random to a layperson but in fact follows a system.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Take an Intercity 225 for example, like the 1D25 1739 London Kings Cross to Bradford Forster Square. There's no coach A, it starts at B, and it skips other letters as well.
Surely it should just go A, B, C, D, E, F, G? I've seen coach letters skipped on IETs as well, with both the LNER and GWR.

A isn't skipped try making a bike res

 

[louis97]

rear 220s have a weird letting already with JLIG which isn't even in the right order either way round

Rear 220s are GIJL, so the correct order (with H and K missing) that way around.

 

[Jim the Jim]

I think they should ranomise them. PBXAKFYCULJT. Keep people on their toes.

I once boarded a train in coach A (where my reservation was) only to discover it was a splitting service and there was actually another coach A, at the other end of the train, which was the one I actually wanted. Certainly kept me on my toes!

 

[PP57601]

The 225s were relettered in 2004/5 as part of the Mallard refurbishment, and to homogenise the letters with the HSTs which were upped to 2+9 at the time, though there were a couple letters unique to each type.

For some years, A was the van space on the HSTs, so B was notionally the first "carriage" in Standard on both types.

E and M were removed when the 225s were shortened to seven coaches.



CrossCountry use I on double Voyagers.

But I agree that traditionally I was omitted for that reason.



After Mallard, A on the HSTs was the van in the TGS, otherwise the seating started at B on both HSTs and 225s:

(A - van space on HSTs)
B - Standard
C - Standard
D - Standard
E - Standard
F - Standard Accesible
G - Standard. HST only.
H - Standard/Buffet. 225 only
J - First Class/Buffet. HST only
K - First Class. 225 only
L - First Accessible
M - First
(P - DVT van space. 225 only)

XC had their lettering the opposite way to GWR on HST’s.
For them, ‘A’ was a 1st Class vehicle, not the TGS.

 

[hexagon789]

XC had their lettering the opposite way to GWR on HST’s.
For them, ‘A’ was a 1st Class vehicle, not the TGS.

To match the Voyager fleet presumably.

 

[Sakuradori]

I remember getting confused in Denmark, where a train had 9 carriages, labelled 71-72-81-82-91-92. No counting error there, by the way.
I wonder how the dozens of people that walk halfway down a train and then ask me where Coach A is would get on there.

 

[MrJeeves]

A isn't skipped try making a bike res

Sorry, can't. RARS thinks none of the trains have coaches again.