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Extinct engine audio

norbitonflyer

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Videos with audio can be found of most classes of diesel locomotive engine used in the UK.

Even

Class 15

Class 23
(seems incongrous in that body, and the turbo adds an extra instrument to the orchestra)

And hopefully one day the Class 28

But are there any recordings of any of the MAN-engined classes 21,22,41,43(Warship), 250 or 251? 154 locos (38 with twin engines) and five units (each with two power cars). Not a single one preserved

(I only saw the 251 (Blue Pullman) in action, and then only once)

There is only this

 
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matchmaker

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I do know that a recording of the NBL/MAN type engine in the class 21 has been used in the DCC decoder supplied by DC Kits that can be fitted in the Dapol OO gauge loco!

DC Kits
 

Strathclyder

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For an idea of what the Crossley HST-V8s in the 28s sounded like, your best bet is to turn to the WAGR X class in Australia, which has quite a few survivors in preservation, including a few running examples.


Sounds sorta like a Fairbanks-Morse to my ears tbh.
 

Ashley Hill

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The Mirrlees 30s (31s) could be added to the list above. Likewise the prototypes like GT3, HS4000 etc. it would be amazing to here what some of these sounded like.
 

norbitonflyer

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Here's a thought. Electric road vehicles have to generate a sound to warn people of their presence. Most of these are quite melodious (i particularly like the one used on our local bus route).
It is also possible to buy sound chips to make model trains sound authentic, with proper tickover, revving etc

https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo?q=diesel loco sound chip class 52&mid=D918D39A23C3D77500C5D918D39A23C3D77500C5&ajaxhist=0.


So could you use such a chip to make your car sound like a Valenta, or a Deltic?
 
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Sun Chariot

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The Mirrlees 30s (31s) could be added to the list above. Likewise the prototypes like GT3, HS4000 etc. it would be amazing to here what some of these sounded like.
Brief audio of HS4000 Kestrel departing Marylebone, in this footage.

I clearly remember SNCF's RTG gas-turbine five-car express passenger sets. My memories of its sound are corroborated with clips on YT. I do wonder if 18000, 18100, GT3 sounded more like the RTGs, than the Union Pacific GTEL gas turbine locomotive?
 
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matchmaker

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Here's a thought. Electric road vehicles have to generate a sound to warn people of their presence. Most of these are quite melodious (i particularly like the one used on our local bus route).
It is also possible to buy sound chips to make model trains sound authentic, with proper tickover, revving etc

https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo?q=diesel loco sound chip class 52&mid=D918D39A23C3D77500C5D918D39A23C3D77500C5&ajaxhist=0.


So could you use such a chip to make your car sound like a Valenta, or a Deltic?
I must confess that I fitted my OO gauge ScotRail HST with a Valenta sound chip, rather than a MTU one...
 

Ashley Hill

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Brief audio of HS4000 Kestrel departing Marylebone, in this footage.

I clearly remember SNCF's RTG gas-turbine five-car express passenger sets. My memories of its sound are corroborated with clips on YT. I do wonder if 18000, 18100, GT3 sounded more like the RTGs, than the Union Pacific GTEL gas turbine locomotive?
An all too brief before the incidental music starts.
I didn’t think anything could out-scream a Valenta HST but those French gas-turbine units certainly try to. That sound must have been quite a shock to GWR men if their turbine locos sounded like this. Here’s a YouTube video if the French units.
 

Strathclyder

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Do any high quality recordings exist of a APT-P (Class 370) departure? Seems like this thread is as good a place as any to ask this lol
 

Acathater

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Do any high quality recordings exist of a APT-P (Class 370) departure? Seems like this thread is as good a place as any to ask this lol
Years ago I found on youtube a film of the test train lashup of experimental HST power car + 2x APT-P power cars + dyno and other test coaches leaving Preston. If you can find that (I've not been able to again) I'm fairly sure it had sound
 

Rescars

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The Mirrlees 30s (31s) could be added to the list above. Likewise the prototypes like GT3, HS4000 etc. it would be amazing to here what some of these sounded like.
Are there sound recordings of the Fell locomotive which have survived?
 

Acathater

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Are there sound recordings of the Fell locomotive which have survived?
try this video about the loco, there's a short section where the engines can be heard as it pulls away

also has video of 10000 + 10001 and one of the gas turbines
 

D7666

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Videos with audio can be found of most classes of diesel locomotive engine used in the UK.

Even

Class 15

15 ? MAN ????

D8200s were Paxman 16YH engines - unless someone is going to tell me they have fitted some sort of MAN engine ???????

It is a bit unclear to the uninformed to have a thread entitled MAN opening with a non MAN loco without explanation (well I think that anyway).

But are there any recordings of any of the MAN-engined classes 21,22,41,43(Warship), 250 or 251? 154 locos (38 with twin engines) and five units (each with two power cars). Not a single one preserved

Those are all MAN 18/21 engines.

None that I can find that are of any use. There is one video on You Tube that is captioned as an NBL 800 at New Street - but while the video is really that the audio is not, in fact, the audio is a Hymek. It has fooled many people. Did not fool me, but then again I know the person who made it, who does things like that.

One of the preserved German DB "egghead" d-h multiple units - the one I think they call Stuttgarter Rossler - used to have a MAN 17.5/21 at one end and a Maybach MD650 at the other but ISTR that got changed around and unsure what it has now.

This is the train in question but no good for diesel audio

In
once you get past the first +1 minute of silly music, at 1 m 20 s onwards there are two runbys both spoiled by horns but I /think/ that is Maybach in the front car and MAN rear car. Whatever they are ,they are not the same as each other.

As far as I know, those are the only operational 17.5/21 or 18/21s anywhere. IIMU none of the preserved locos have them. One of the V80s might, unsure. While it is popular GB gen that DB V200s and V100s (and V80) had 18/21s just like BR D800s did, in fact they were in very low numbers - little more than prototype and pre-series runs and barely count to 20 locos in total. DB abandoned the 18/21 around about the same time NBL started building them for BR. It was not a good engine, as DB discovered early. NBL did otherwise. It was basically an 800 hp V12 engine with 17.5 cm bore (17.5/21) that in an effort to meet DB wanting 1000 hp was englarged to 18 cm bore (18/21) but no other mods. This really over stressed it, and place it at the limitof its development. NBL / BR pushed it to 1100 hp (in round figures) by twiddling with turbos but it was really beyond its capability. By 1960 DB wanted 1350 hp from a V12 - no way the 18/21 could do that so it was dropped, while the Maybach - and Mercedes Daimiler - engines could.

Many years ago, like 30 years, I saw the thing go hammering through Ulm empty and certainly one end was both growling and 'dubbing' unlike any Maybach I've ever heard and assume that was the 18/21 MAN sound.

I saw many D833s, a few D6300s, and the BPs in service, yet I can not remember what they sounded like - well it was 55 years ago now. You could tell a D833 from afar on approach more by the blue fug surrounding it rather than the noise.


No doubt someone will be along in a minute and post about MAN engined shunters - but those engines have SFA to do with the main line 18/21s.


PS
D600s were not NOT NOT and never were class 41 as been stated in numerous discussions over and over again

 
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norbitonflyer

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15 ? MAN ????

D8200s were Paxman 16YH engines - unless someone is going to tell me they have fitted some sort of MAN engine ???????

It is a bit unclear to the uninformed to have a thread entitled MAN opening with a non MAN loco without explanation (well I think that anyway).
Good point, i will fix it

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PS
D600s were not NOT NOT and never were class 41 as been stated in numerous discussions over and over again
What were they then? or more to the point, if they weren't, why was the number go unused in the original allocations? (i know that it was re-used for the HST prototypes)
(I am aware there were other gaps, such as 38 and 39)
 

Gloster

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Good point, i will fix it

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What were they then? or more to the point, if they weren't, why was the number go unused in the original allocations? (i know that it was re-used for the HST prototypes)
(I am aware there were other gaps, such as 38 and 39)

My understanding, although I can’t find the reference, is that they were allocated Class 41 in the early draft for the class numbers scheme, but were withdrawn before even the earliest use of the numbers. By ‘use’ I mean in paperwork, not painting on. However, they didn’t muck about with the draft scheme as there was then no need to free up a number in that area.
 

SuspectUsual

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Does anyone know of a decent recording of a pre-refurbishment class 50? Everything I've come across is after.....
 

Sun Chariot

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Does anyone know of a decent recording of a pre-refurbishment class 50? Everything I've come across is after.....
In the 1980s I used to buy Audiocord audio tapes; one of the albums had a very "vacuum cleaner" sounding unrefurb'd 50: almost drowned out its familar "thud-thud-thud" of the idling EE engine, at the station.
 

Acathater

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This video seems to have been intended as a marketing piece for sales of British locomotives and includes shots of several early diesels e.g. the class 30, D600. However most of the sound is obscured by the voiceover and inane music.
However there is a section (though quiet) showing a D600 pulling away from a station with what is presumably the genuine sound with no audio overlay. However obviously we don't know what tricks were played during composition.....
Some of you with better hearing than me may be able to pick up engine sounds for some of the others from behind the music and inane twaddle


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In the 1980s I used to buy Audiocord audio tapes; one of the albums had a very "vacuum cleaner" sounding unrefurb'd 50: almost drowned out its familar "thud-thud-thud" of the idling EE engine, at the station.
that's the hydrocyclone air filter

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

What were they then? or more to the point, if they weren't, why was the number go unused in the original allocations? (i know that it was re-used for the HST prototypes)
(I am aware there were other gaps, such as 38 and 39)
According to Wiki D601 wasn't scrapped until 1980 so was the class number "ghost" reserved in case anyone ever decided to restore it - as it would then have needed a TOPS class.
 
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norbitonflyer

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According to Wiki D601 wasn't scrapped until 1980 so was the class number "ghost" reserved in case anyone ever decided to restore it - as it would then have needed a TOPS class.
No. The class number was in fgact re-used in the early 70s for the two "locomotives" of the HST prototype, before they were renumbered as DEMU cars.

Here is No 41001 (later 43000) hauling an unusual train
41001_in_loop_1972.jpg
 

Gloster

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All five D600s were withdrawn on 31 December 1967. I can’t see BR keeping a class open just in case some preservationists might use it; in those days who preserved diesels? I believe that the only reason D601 lasted so long was that Woodhams found cutting up D600 such a heavy job that they moved to easier jobs, like lots and lots of wagons. There was apparently a proposal to preserve D601 in the late 1970s, but by then Class 41 had already been used.
 

Harpo

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Does anyone know of a decent recording of a pre-refurbishment class 50? Everything I've come across is after.....
I’m pretty sure there’s a track on ‘Westerns - Diesel Hydraulics On The Western Region in 1974’ with the classic droning hoover sound of an un-refurbed 50, and also a track with some excellent Hymek racket too. I think both are at Reading?

To my ears, unrefurbed 50 power units sounded much slower to power up and quite ploddy whereas the first refurb, 50006, sounded much more like an English Electric loco and much faster to power up. And that was the point where I got really interested in 50s.
 

ac6000cw

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Fell: I'm surprised with the noise they made. Sounds like a radio-controlled plane!
Well it was a very oddball loco, with 4 x 500hp Paxman 12RPH V12 'Hi-Dyne' main engines plus two auxiliary 150hp AEC engines driving superchargers (Roots blowers) supplying the intake air to the main engines. The way the transmission system worked meant that the loco used just one engine from rest, then progressively ran up more engines as speed increased until all four were supplying power into the transmission.

It was quite clever in its own way, but IMHO the overall complexity meant it would have been very unlikely to have become a production loco.
 

Trackman

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Well it was a very oddball loco, with 4 x 500hp Paxman 12RPH V12 'Hi-Dyne' main engines plus two auxiliary 150hp AEC engines driving superchargers (Roots blowers) supplying the intake air to the main engines. The way the transmission system worked meant that the loco used just one engine from rest, then progressively ran up more engines as speed increased until all four were supplying power into the transmission.

It was quite clever in its own way, but IMHO the overall complexity meant it would have been very unlikely to have become a production loco.
Did you see the driver at the control desk?
Must have taken some doing to sign off for that loco.
 

ac6000cw

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Did you see the driver at the control desk?
Must have taken some doing to sign off for that loco.
Yes - the four hydraulic coupling controls were probably the main addition, and were a vague equivalent of the gear change control on MK1 DMUs and some shunters e.g. 03s, except that on the Fell it was an 'additive' gearbox rather than a ratio-change one.

I suspect if the Fell loco design had progressed further the coupling controls may have been simplified/made more automatic.
 

Strathclyder

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If you can still find an audio album "Dawn of the Diesels" (released 30+ years ago by SPV) the opening track is Ivatt twins 10000 + 10001. The sound was akin to a 37/0 mixed with a 31.
They are also featured in the D for Diesel audio tape recording compliation by Peter Handford. The specific recording featured is of them powering away from an adverse signal at Greenholme while working the 'down' Royal Scot in August 1958.


== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Well it was a very oddball loco, with 4 x 500hp Paxman 12RPH V12 'Hi-Dyne' main engines plus two auxiliary 150hp AEC engines driving superchargers (Roots blowers) supplying the intake air to the main engines. The way the transmission system worked meant that the loco used just one engine from rest, then progressively ran up more engines as speed increased until all four were supplying power into the transmission.

It was quite clever in its own way, but IMHO the overall complexity meant it would have been very unlikely to have become a production loco.
A Fell Mk2 was proposed iirc or at least got as far as the drawing board, which would've simpilifed the design by incorporating a torque converter and getting rid of the hideously noisy pair of AEC auxiliaries & their blowers. Even in that revised form though, I highly doubt it would've entered volume production even if that stray bolt hadn't gotten into 10100's gearbox and wreaked utter havoc.

Ironic to think that it wasn't the hideously complex drivetrain that was the immediate catalyst for 10100's withdrawal in 1958, but a train-heating boiler fire, a problem that bedeviled even the favoured diesel-electric classes. Though I think it would've been withdrawn by the early 60s at the latest anyways, the fire merely expedited matters.

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I saw many D833s, a few D6300s, and the BPs in service, yet I can not remember what they sounded like - well it was 55 years ago now. You could tell a D833 from afar on approach more by the blue fug surrounding it rather than the noise.
The D for Diesel audio recording compliation by Peter Handford I embedded above has a Blue Pullman recording at Princes Risborough of the Birmingham Pullman dating from October 1960. The leading vehicle's engine sound is unfortunately drowned out by the horn, but the rear one is quite audible. Does it sound at all familar to you?


(timestamped video link)
 
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Richard Scott

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The D for Diesel audio recording compliation by Peter Handford I embedded above has a Blue Pullman recording at Princes Risborough of the Birmingham Pullman dating from October 1960. The leading vehicle's engine sound is unfortunately drowned out by the horn, but the rear one is quite audible. Does it sound at all familar to you?

Assume implying sounds like a Valenta engined HST? Not surprising given that the MAN engines had Napier turbos, as did Valenta engine. I believe the MAN engine had just one larger turbocharger as did the Valenta engine before someone points out all English Electric engines also had Napier turbochargers.
I'm fairly certain it's why 56s sound like they do, despite being an uprated EE 16 cylinder engine, the engine has 2 larger turbos as opposed to the 4 used in the class 50s.
 

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