First West Yorkshire & York discussion

[mattb7tl]

The only thing predictable about rush hour is the fact you will have traffic, you do not know how long it will disrupt your journey.

In the case of my route, my service is artificially locked to three buses per hour at rush hour despite the fact a good chunk of the time the bus is parked up on the wall with a driver and could run at a fifteen minute frequency. Sometimes, maybe not, but I would rather have four buses per hour half the time as opposed to never.

 

[GoneSouth]

Whilst I appreciate where @Stan Drews is coming from, and we all understand the need to amend timings during peak, this is definitely the case.

If I look at another one of my local routes (sorry it's not West Yorkshire), it has departures (with journey times in brackets) from Bristol at 0832 (89), 0946 (76), 1043 (77), 1143 (79), 1236 (78), 1331 (83). I get the first one is dealing with the remnants of schools traffic but how a lunchtime journey is 7 mins slower than a morning one... dunno. Where on earth is the data telling them that? Also, these are the Mon-Fri times but the Saturday times 0850, 0943, 1039, 1138, 1241, 1345 - why have not have consistency instead of running 5 mins earlier or later than their weekday equivalent. I will defend operators in the main but this is daft.

So, what is supposed to be an hourly service has gaps of 74, 57, 60, 53, 55.

Hardly going to encourage anyone to use the bus when it’s so erratic is it.

 

[YorkRailFan]

B7RLE 69584 has been repainted to Ultraviolet.

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E400 33882 has been repainted into Ultraviolet. B9TL 37296 has been withdrawn.

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Driver Trainer B7RLE 69456 has transferred from Olive Grove to York.

 

[Leyland Bus]

B9TL 37296 has withdrawn.

Blimey! One of my earliest repaints into Olympia at Oldham Depot when it was a Bury bus!

37296BY

37296BY seen here freshly repainted at OM depot deviod of legal lettering.

flic.kr

 

[YorkRailFan]

Driver Trainer B7RLE 69002 has transferred from York to Leeds. Ultroliner 35542 has been repainted to Ultraviolet.

 

[stevieinselby]

Changes in York from 31st May, including the aforementioned increase to the 11:

More buses - Service 10 & 11

We're making it easier to get around York from 31st May 2026. We're making it easier to get around York by increasing the frequency of our services on 10 & 11/11A services.

www.firstbus.co.uk

Some really positive changes, the 10 is going to a half-hourly clockface timetable Monday-Saturday, although unfortunately the hourly Sunday service isn't clockface. The 11/11A also aren't clockface half-hourly which is disappointing, but the increases in frequency are great to see.

They've completely stuffed up the timings for the Saturday service from Bishopthorpe...

On weekdays, the 11 is given 16 minutes to get from Bishopthorpe Acaster Lane to The Winning Post, which seems reasonable (Google Maps tells me it will take 11 minutes to drive it by car, late in the evening), and the 11A takes 20 minutes to allow it to run round the South Bank loop on the way.

But on Saturday, while the 11A has gone up to 21 minutes because sure, maybe Saturday traffic is 5% heavier than during the week, the 11 is allowed just 4 minutes. For a 3½ mile journey. That's almost entirely in a built up area.
This isn't evened out by excessively slow segments later in the route, meaning that for the rest of the journey up to Heworth they are running only 15–20 minutes behind the previous bus with a gap of 45–50 minutes behind them. Obviously that isn't going to happen, and fortunately those super-speedy journeys do then have a long layover at the end so they start the return journey more evenly spaced and with a chance of having caught up with themselves, but even so...

It's obvious nonsense that any decent human planner would spot immediately, but apparently ChatGPT thinks that it's just fine and dandy...

 

[Metal Mickey]

They've completely stuffed up the timings for the Saturday service from Bishopthorpe...

On weekdays, the 11 is given 16 minutes to get from Bishopthorpe Acaster Lane to The Winning Post, which seems reasonable (Google Maps tells me it will take 11 minutes to drive it by car, late in the evening), and the 11A takes 20 minutes to allow it to run round the South Bank loop on the way.

But on Saturday, while the 11A has gone up to 21 minutes because sure, maybe Saturday traffic is 5% heavier than during the week, the 11 is allowed just 4 minutes. For a 3½ mile journey. That's almost entirely in a built up area.
This isn't evened out by excessively slow segments later in the route, meaning that for the rest of the journey up to Heworth they are running only 15–20 minutes behind the previous bus with a gap of 45–50 minutes behind them. Obviously that isn't going to happen, and fortunately those super-speedy journeys do then have a long layover at the end so they start the return journey more evenly spaced and with a chance of having caught up with themselves, but even so...

It's obvious nonsense that any decent human planner would spot immediately, but apparently ChatGPT thinks that it's just fine and dandy...

That 11/11A timetable is not easy on the eye. I wonder how many passengers First are haemorrhaging in the areas they have introduced these AI timetables as I wonder how people who don’t use apps are able to cope?

 

[darloscott]

That 11/11A timetable is not easy on the eye. I wonder how many passengers First are haemorrhaging in the areas they have introduced these AI timetables as I wonder how people who don’t use apps are able to cope?

I’d reckon a good 90% of people planning travel on their phones these days that I see show me Google Maps. Therefore it doesn’t matter what time the other buses run.
I still prefer a physical timetable (and therefore a standard frequency) but vast majority of people these days aren’t bothered.

 

[YorkRailFan]

B7RLE 69412 has transferred from Bradford to Leeds (Bramley Depot)

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B9TL 37250 has transferred from South Yorkshire to Huddersfield to replace 37296.

 

[stevieinselby]

But on Saturday, while the 11A has gone up to 21 minutes because sure, maybe Saturday traffic is 5% heavier than during the week, the 11 is allowed just 4 minutes. For a 3½ mile journey. That's almost entirely in a built up area.
This isn't evened out by excessively slow segments later in the route, meaning that for the rest of the journey up to Heworth they are running only 15–20 minutes behind the previous bus with a gap of 45–50 minutes behind them. Obviously that isn't going to happen, and fortunately those super-speedy journeys do then have a long layover at the end so they start the return journey more evenly spaced and with a chance of having caught up with themselves, but even so...

The good news is they've acknowledged that it looks like a mistake ... so let's see if it gets corrected!

 

[YorkRailFan]

Streetlite DF 63294 has been repainted to Ultraviolet.

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B9TL 37363 has been repainted to Ultraviolet.

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Quite a few fleet changes. The following are withdrawn:
B9TLs 37683, 37684 and B7RLE 69412.
The following have transferred from Bradford to Leeds:
B9TLs 37063, 37064, 37078 & 37079.

 

[tsyxa]

Yesterday in York, there was a decker running on the 6, it was the one in the special livery (not sure what livery it is my apologies). I didn’t know this was possible, I always thought the 6 ran singles because of how tight the route is? Proven by half a tree hanging off the upper deck . How often are deckers sent down the 6? As I’ve not seen this before myself

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^ Turns out there were more than one on yesterday!

36501 https://bustimes.org/vehicles/fyor-36501?date=2026-05-2

36513

36513 - MF23 ZWA

Wright StreetDeck Electroliner Anne Stamp

bustimes.org

 

[YorkRailFan]

Yesterday in York, there was a decker running on the 6, it was the one in the special livery (not sure what livery it is my apologies). I didn’t know this was possible, I always thought the 6 ran singles because of how tight the route is? Proven by half a tree hanging off the upper deck . How often are deckers sent down the 6? As I’ve not seen this before myself

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 May 2026 ==

^ Turns out there were more than one on yesterday!

36501 https://bustimes.org/vehicles/fyor-36501?date=2026-05-2

36513

36513 - MF23 ZWA

Wright StreetDeck Electroliner Anne Stamp

bustimes.org

That's a special wrap for Queen Ethelburga's School. There are two Electroliners in the wrap in York.

Deckers on the 6 are uncommon but not unheard of. Deckers are usually prioritised on Park & Ride (excluding 59 due to low bridge on Leeman Road), the 1/1A, 4, 5/5A and University services.

 

[stevieinselby]

Yesterday in York, there was a decker running on the 6, it was the one in the special livery (not sure what livery it is my apologies). I didn’t know this was possible, I always thought the 6 ran singles because of how tight the route is? Proven by half a tree hanging off the upper deck . How often are deckers sent down the 6? As I’ve not seen this before myself

The 6 has never been blacklisted for double deckers as far as I'm aware, although they aren't used all that often because it doesn't really need the capacity. If manoeuvrability is the issue then double deckers should be preferable to saloons as they are shorter and so will be easier to get around tight turns.

 

[aswilliamsuk]

That's a special wrap for Queen Ethelburga's School. There are two Electroliners in the wrap in York.

Deckers on the 6 are uncommon but not unheard of. Deckers are usually prioritised on Park & Ride (excluding 59 due to low bridge on Leeman Road), the 1/1A, 4, 5/5A and University services.

Apparently there's an issue on the uni routes at the moment that means they are using single deckers on them, hence deckers appearing elsewhere.

 

[dodecahedron67]

6 is heavily discouraged from having deckers on it due to trees on Burton Stone Lane and there have been times where there was a ban on them (normally when a nice new batch of deckers arrived and they didn't want them off-road due to tree strikes!)

There's some problems with low hanging trees on the U3 route at the moment, but because all the U routes interwork, they all need to be singles at the moment, hence deckers on the 10 etc.

 

[YorkRailFan]

6 is heavily discouraged from having deckers on it due to trees on Burton Stone Lane and there have been times where there was a ban on them (normally when a nice new batch of deckers arrived and they didn't want them off-road due to tree strikes!)

There's some problems with low hanging trees on the U3 route at the moment, but because all the U routes interwork, they all need to be singles at the moment, hence deckers on the 10 etc.

I'm seeing more deckers on the 9 as a result which is always welcome!

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Ultroliner 35591 has been repainted to Ultraviolet

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From 7 June, York University services will switch to a holiday timetable. The U4 will not return for the new academic year in September:

As the academic year winds down, our University of York services will move to non-term timetables to reflect reduced demand over the summer period. Here’s what’s changing from 7th June:

ServiceChangeTimetables
U1 & U2These services will run to a reduced non-term timetable and will not serve York Sport Village when the facility is closedView here
U3There will be no service temporarily over the summer-
U4This service will permanently cease to operate and will not return after summer-
UN1A reduced timetable will operate on Friday and Saturday evenings only between 00:00 and 04:00View here
Except for U4, full service timetables will return from 20th September.

University of York: Summer services

As the academic year winds down, our University of York services will move to non-term timetables to reflect reduced demand over the summer period. Here’s what’s changing from 7th June:

www.firstbus.co.uk

 

[ash39]

Noticing more Versas on the 6 in York recently. At least one passes by every day and today there's two running. Is this a planned change or a shortage of Kites?

 

[YorkRailFan]

Noticing more Versas on the 6 in York recently. At least one passes by every day and today there's two running. Is this a planned change or a shortage of Kites?

Kites have been used on the University services as a result of low hanging trees on the U3 so deckers can't be used and all of the University services interwork. Deckers are starting to appear on the 9 & 10 as of late. Not a planned changed but basically Kites are being used elsewhere and it looks like First isn't really using deckers on the 6 (perhaps due to tight corners, parked cars, etc) so Versas are becoming more common on the 6.

 

[ash39]

Kites have been used on the University services as a result of low hanging trees on the U3 so deckers can't be used and all of the University services interwork. Deckers are starting to appear on the 9 & 10 as of late. Not a planned changed but basically Kites are being used elsewhere and it looks like First isn't really using deckers on the 6 (perhaps due to tight corners, parked cars, etc) so Versas are becoming more common on the 6.

Makes sense. Thanks.

We did have a university-liveried streetdeck pass the other day so deckers do turn up on the 6 on occasion.

 

[YorkRailFan]

We did have a university-liveried streetdeck pass the other day so deckers do turn up on the 6 on occasion.

Yeah deckers do turn up on the 6 from time to time, they're not too uncommon, but the nature of the route usually means First uses single deckers on the 6.

 

[sytransport]

Kites have been used on the University services as a result of low hanging trees on the U3 so deckers can't be used and all of the University services interwork. Deckers are starting to appear on the 9 & 10 as of late. Not a planned changed but basically Kites are being used elsewhere and it looks like First isn't really using deckers on the 6 (perhaps due to tight corners, parked cars, etc) so Versas are becoming more common on the 6.

Not sure how deckers would be worse with corners and parked cars when they’re shorter…?

 

[YorkRailFan]

Not sure how deckers would be worse with corners and parked cars when they’re shorter…?

In combination with low hanging trees on the 6, they are worse.

 

[sytransport]

In combination with low hanging trees on the 6, they are worse.

They’re not worse for tight corners or badly parked cars though like you claim, double deckers are shorter.

 

[YorkRailFan]

They’re not worse for tight corners or badly parked cars though like you claim, double deckers are shorter.

Again, a combination tight corners, badly parked cars and long hanging trees makes double deckers unfavourable on the 6.

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B9TLs 37590 & 37600 have transferred from First South Yorkshire to First Huddersfield.

 

[sytransport]

Again, a combination tight corners, badly parked cars and long hanging trees makes double deckers unfavourable on the 6.

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B9TLs 37590 & 37600 have transferred from First South Yorkshire to First Huddersfield.

But tight corners and badly parked cars would be easier with a double decker… low trees understandable but the other two don’t make sense, single deckers are typically longer so harder to navigate in those circumstances…

 

[YorkRailFan]

But tight corners and badly parked cars would be easier with a double decker… low trees understandable but the other two don’t make sense, single deckers are typically longer so harder to navigate in those circumstances…

If you're trying to take a tight corner with low trees hanging over the road with a double decker, it's quite tricky with the upper deck.

 

[sytransport]

If you're trying to take a tight corner with low trees hanging over the road with a double decker, it's quite tricky with the upper deck.

That wasn’t what you said though, and you’ve clearly edited your post. A simple “good point” would’ve sufficed

 

[YorkRailFan]

That wasn’t what you said though, and you’ve clearly edited your post. A simple “good point” would’ve sufficed

My post was edited to include fleet news. I did not edit my original point.

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B9TL 37702 has been repainted to Ultraviolet.

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The Summer Holidays boost to York Park & Ride will start on 19th July and end on 5th September:

To help you travel into York, we're increasing the frequency of all 6 Park & Ride services. These improvements will run throughout the summer holiday, from Sunday 19 July 2026 and will return to current timetables on Sunday 6 September 2026.

These changes will make travelling into York easier, with more frequent buses on key Park & Ride routes throughout the day.

What's changing?
From Sunday 19 July 2026 we're increasing frequencies across all York Park & Ride routes to provide more frequent journeys during the busy summer holiday period.

Additional journeys are being added on weekdays, weekends, or both, depending on the route. These temporary enhancements are designed to support increased visitor numbers and make travelling into York simpler.

All services will return to their current timetable levels from 6 September 2026.
Service 2/2A – Rawcliffe Bar Park & Ride
Weekdays
Frequency increases from every 10–15 minutes to every 8–13 minutes.

Saturdays
Frequency remains the same, operating every 8–10 minutes.

Sundays
Frequency remains the same, operating every 9–14 minutes.


Service 3 – Askham Bar Park & Ride
Weekdays
Frequency improves from every 10–17 minutes to every 10–14 minutes.

Saturdays
Frequency remains the same, operating every 13–19 minutes.

Sundays
Frequency improves from every 17–20 minutes to every 14–20 minutes.


On race and event days, Service 3 also stops at The Knavesmire, right next to York Racecourse.

Service 7 – Designer Outlet Park & Ride
Weekdays
Frequency improves from every 11–16 minutes to every 8–12 minutes.

Saturdays
Frequency improves from every 12–14 minutes to every 10–11 minutes.

Sundays
Frequency remains the same, operating every 11–17 minutes.


Service 8 – Grimston Bar Park & Ride
Weekdays
Frequency improves from every 12–15 minutes to every 8–12 minutes.

Saturdays
Frequency improves from every 12–16 minutes to every 8–13 minutes.

Sundays
Frequency remains the same, operating every 12–15 minutes.


Service 9 – Monks Cross Park & Ride
Weekdays
Frequency improves from every 12–16 minutes to every 10–12 minutes.

Saturdays
Frequency remains the same, operating every 14–17 minutes.

Sundays
Frequency remains the same, with 3 additional journeys operating.


Service 59 – Poppleton Bar Park & Ride
Weekdays
Frequency improves from every 13–17 minutes to every 12–15 minutes.

Saturdays
Frequency improves from every 13–16 minutes to every 8–13 minutes.

Sundays
Frequency improves from every 30 minutes to every 25–28 minutes.

Extra summer Park & Ride services

We're making frequency improvements to York Park & Ride for the summer holidays. To help you travel into York, we're increasing the frequency of all 6 Park & Ride services. These improvements will run throughout the summer holiday, from Sunday 19 July 2026 and will return to current timetables...

www.firstbus.co.uk

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B7RLEs 69575 & 69577 have transferred from Bradford to Leeds.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2026 ==

Ultroliner 35217 has transferred from Bradford to Leeds.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Jun 2026 ==

Ultroliner 35559 has been repainted to Ultraviolet.

 

[sytransport]

My post was edited to include fleet news. I did not edit my original point.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Jun 2026 ==

B9TL 37702 has been repainted to Ultraviolet.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2026 ==

The Summer Holidays boost to York Park & Ride will start on 19th July and end on 5th September:

Extra summer Park & Ride services

We're making frequency improvements to York Park & Ride for the summer holidays. To help you travel into York, we're increasing the frequency of all 6 Park & Ride services. These improvements will run throughout the summer holiday, from Sunday 19 July 2026 and will return to current timetables...

www.firstbus.co.uk

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B7RLEs 69575 & 69577 have transferred from Bradford to Leeds.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jun 2026 ==

Ultroliner 35217 has transferred from Bradford to Leeds.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Jun 2026 ==

Ultroliner 35559 has been repainted to Ultraviolet.

69575, (576) and 577 are loans to Leeds prior to transfer to South Yorkshire.