Extremely loud train noise at St Pancras Thameslink

[Malcolmffc]

Have just made my first visit to the TL platforms at St Pancras in many years. Had to wait a while for my train and noticed the incredibly loud screeching noise trains in both directions were making, to the point my ears were ringing after each train left.

I used to commute to STP regularly back in the days of the 319s and don’t remember this issue. Obviously the underground nature of the station doesn’t help but surely the industry ought to be doing something about these sorts of noise levels?

 

[MCR247]

The 319s were just as bad from my memory at St Pancras, as were the 377s. I don’t think it’s the trains, it’s the sharper curves. But I do agree, it is something that they should try and mitigate at least

 

[swt_passenger]

Definitely the track, there’s a few previous threads in the infrastructure forum:

Search results for query: St Pancras low level noise

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[riceuten]

I commute on this daily - it seems worse northbound from Farringdon than southbound (though only marginally). Usually wakes me up if I have dropped off

 

[edwin_m]

The tight curve where Thameslink joins the Widened Lines was originally all in tunnel, but part of it is now in the platforms of St Pancras Thameslink. Thus the screeching will appear more obvious even if it hasn't actually got worse.

 

[dk1]

Not much can be done. Just need to give out earplugs to those most affected

 

[ExRes]

I very much doubt anything will ever be done about it, the noise was present 15+ years ago and would have been dealt with long ago if anyone had the drive or will to do so

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Didn't there used to be wheel greasers?

 

[The exile]

I very much doubt anything will ever be done about it, the noise was present 15+ years ago and would have been dealt with long ago if anyone had the drive or will to do so

… or if it were practical to do so.

 

[fwsmVor]

The station being a hard echoey box doesn't help. Some foam glued to the ceiling would mitigate a lot of the noise.

 

[sharpener]

Assuming the noise originates from the wheel-rail interface and is maybe radiated from the wheels then noise-absorbing materials fitted to the vertical face of the platforms would make a good deal of difference I would have thought.

 

[takno]

I've never noticed it tbh, although my expectations on wheel noise were probably set on my regular commute through Bradford Interchange on Pacers. Nothing makes a noise like those on tight corners

 

[D7666]

I commute daily (well nearly daily) through there.

This noise comes and goes in phases you have periods of nothing and other periods of excrutiating noise. /usually/ it is one track or the other at a time but not both.

IIMU from a (non main line) track engineer it is to do with it being paved slab track on relatively tight curves and a more precise gauge needs to be maintained, the issue being as soon as wear sets in, that accelerates the issue.

It comes and goes because NR to some periodic maintenance on it - despite what the naysayers might want to believe - and as far as can hear it goes away when they do rail grinding.

I very much doubt anything will ever be done about it, the noise was present 15+ years ago and would have been dealt with long ago if anyone had the drive or will to do so

Except they do do something, as I wrote above. It is not permanent. I agree that the noise has been there since STP TL was rebuilt and the slab track installed, but no way has it been continuous all that time since.

 

[dosxuk]

The station being a hard echoey box doesn't help. Some foam glued to the ceiling would mitigate a lot of the noise.

That's what they thought in the Le Constellation bar in Switzerland, and to be fair, it did, but it brought with it a much bigger problem than the noise.

You don't really get fire proof foams, their very nature makes them susceptible to retaining enough heat to keep alight if ignited. At best they can resist the spread, but smoudering foam in the roof of a station is still going to cause an evacuation.

Other noise deadening materials exist, but they're either similar soft goods which are difficult to fire proof, or they require a lot of space, which is already restricted as it is.

 

[iamraymond]

That's what they thought in the Le Constellation bar in Switzerland, and to be fair, it did, but it brought with it a much bigger problem than the noise.

You don't really get fire proof foams, their very nature makes them susceptible to retaining enough heat to keep alight if ignited. At best they can resist the spread, but smoudering foam in the roof of a station is still going to cause an evacuation.

Other noise deadening materials exist, but they're either similar soft goods which are difficult to fire proof, or they require a lot of space, which is already restricted as it is.

Bring back asbestos!

 

[Supercoss]

Whilst not exclusive to the line (as yellow Plant and locomotives infrequently operate out of normal hours) the Class 700 fleet has onboard lubricators that activate on the leading wheelset dispensing a measured amount of fluid to help reduce friction on the route, when these are damaged or not aligned properly a dirt mark can be seen on the side of the unit where drivers cab door is located as far back as first set of passenger doors .

 

[Crithylum]

I was waiting at the south end of the Northbound platform at Farringdon watching southbound trains depart. First two under ATO made my ears bleed. Third one, manually driven (at low speed), significantly quieter (possibly on the order of 40dB).

 

[sharpener]

Other noise deadening materials exist, but they're either similar soft goods which are difficult to fire proof, or they require a lot of space, which is already restricted as it is.

I had a very noisy boiler beneath our bedroom and stuck sound absorbing tiles to the plant room ceiling, they were made of fibreglass with a textured surface so inherently fireproof, gave ?10-15 dB reduction. IIRC made by Saint-Gobain and I had to collect from the importers in Basingstoke. Problem with this kind of material is that it will easily absorb both oils and water. Less of an issue with electric traction perhaps.

There are also special fireproof foams made for soundproofing boats' engine compartments. They are expensive so you would not want to apply to a large area.

 

[D7666]

I was waiting at the south end of the Northbound platform at Farringdon watching southbound trains depart. First two under ATO made my ears bleed. Third one, manually driven (at low speed), significantly quieter (possibly on the order of 40dB).

Yeh right your ears bleed

 

[Peter0124]

The noise at STP is very loud however stand near the escalators and you will barely hear it. I also find it mad you can't hear anything from street level or in the main station.

I commute on this daily - it seems worse northbound from Farringdon than southbound (though only marginally). Usually wakes me up if I have dropped off

From my observations, the innermost curve tends to be louder, but as you say its marginal.

 

[Richard Scott]

I was waiting at the south end of the Northbound platform at Farringdon watching southbound trains depart. First two under ATO made my ears bleed. Third one, manually driven (at low speed), significantly quieter (possibly on the order of 40dB).

40dB is very low noise level, doubt it was that low.

 

[Mattplans]

I have noticed the noise in question and it has never really occured to me how extremely loud it is until now. It is loud but the city and assosciated stations tend to be loud places as well. I'm surprised anyone can discern anything at Farringdon with 4 platform announcers trying to drown each other out repeating the same "Mind the gap" announcement every few seconds. And then it's not like the LU line here is particularly quiet anyway

 

[Crithylum]

40dB is very low noise level, doubt it was that low.

I was referring to the reduction, not the actual noise level. It was an absolutely enormous difference. Maybe closer to 30 (this is an estimate), but slowing down the trains (if there is slack in the timetable and they aren't late) could be a good half-solution.

 

[mtmikethom]

Paddington northbound Bakerloo is pretty bad onboard

 

[zwk500]

Other noise deadening materials exist, but they're either similar soft goods which are difficult to fire proof, or they require a lot of space, which is already restricted as it is.

Another thing that helps deaden noise is having lots of angular surfaces to disrupt the reflections of the sound waves. However fitting lots of sharply angular wall tiles to St Pancras would potentially cause passengers to be wary of using the full width of the platform, as it won't be comfortable to lean on.

The likely best option for St Pancras would be platform edge doors, as then the noise would simply be contained. However that's rather expensive (especially if you tried to do Farringdon and City Thameslink at the same time).

 

[Richard Scott]

I was referring to the reduction, not the actual noise level. It was an absolutely enormous difference. Maybe closer to 30 (this is an estimate), but slowing down the trains (if there is slack in the timetable and they aren't late) could be a good half-solution.

It's also a logarithmic scale so I would imagine that's very hard to estimate without a meter.

 

[dosxuk]

The likely best option for St Pancras would be platform edge doors, as then the noise would simply be contained. However that's rather expensive (especially if you tried to do Farringdon and City Thameslink at the same time).

Can you do PED's on curved platforms?

 

[8ace]

I usually wait at the northern end of the platform (the back of Brighton-bound train where the declassified 1st class section is), the squeal is a lot less painful there. Of course these are all usually FLU's - not sure where the best place for 700/0 would be?

 

[Taunton]

Probably the noisiest stretch in London is not at a platform, but the bridges west of London Bridge station, over Borough Market and adjacent streets. The ringing flange squeal noise from rounding the curves penetrates right down into the neighbourhood. It long has done, going back way before the London Bridge alterations.

 

[zwk500]

Can you do PED's on curved platforms?

They have on Crossrail...