Level crossings that would bring the greatest benefits if closed

[zwk500]

The use of tram train vehicles on the Metrolink Altrincham line would enable the reinstatement of the previous (pre-July 1991) conventional double track layout through Navigation Road station. This would eliminate delays to Metrolink services caused by the single line section. A significant downside would be that freight and Northern passenger services would potentially be delayed by Metrolink services. At the moment they have their own dedicated tracks.

Another significant downside would be incurring all the costs of certifying vehicles and drivers to mainline standard.
Keep modes operationally separate as far as possible.

 

[Rail Ranger]

From just south of Timperley to Altrincham Metrolink already runs on Network Rail infrastructure. So Metrolink drivers already need to know the railway rule book.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Is this thread limited to level crossings or does this include foot crossings ?

I don't want to put my foot in it by suggesting certain foot crossings!

Pardon the pun.

 

[DeeperMadness]

Brimsdown, Enfield Lock and Cheshunt level crossings.

Would make WAML four tracking easier and would end long traffic jams in the area, especially around Green street in Brimsdown as it gets terrible over there.

You know, I've been thinking about that myself. I've been wondering about putting forth a proposal to change the level crossing on Ordnance Road into a rail bridge, similar to the one at Lincoln Road (only, much nicer aesthetically). Ordnance road already goes up to meet the train tracks on both sides, and there's also an underpass there to boot. The main issue is the 121 bus, being a double decker. That, and transforming that part of the road would take a long time, potentially leaving key routes for road and rail closed. There are bypasses, such as Mollison Avenue, which the 121 currently takes when on diversion, but it isn't something that would be palatable for a lot of people. It's hard to convince people that months of closure far outweighs perpetual traffic for the rest of their lives.

That being said, if I was being particularly novel, I'd tack it on as part of a proposal to replace the 121 bus route with a tramway in Enfield instead. The borough is crying out for a segregated local transit system that doesn't get stuck in traffic, and the 121 would be an excellent opportunity to put it to the test. It hasn't changed its route in a long time, and it connects up with so many other train stations and places of interest that it would be sensible to make one. But getting the catenary to cross over Enfield Lock would be silly, so why not get a rail bridge made at the same time and kill two birds with one stone?

 

[MatthewHutton]

Politically the ridgeway crossing of the Chiltern mainline should go because it’s a national trail.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 May 2026 ==

I was thinking about the very different approach to level crossings in Tokyo. While there is a programme to try to get rid of them, it is normally by elevating the line or putting the line in a tunnel. It is very rare for them to be closed. What is striking is that there are thousands of them, and so feature much more in people's consciousness. They are generally automatic, but with pretty quick cycles. And on some lines, they are down most of the time during peak hours. However, because there are many, people wanting to get from one side of a line to another very rarely have to funnel through a choke point. To illustrate, take Keisei Yawata station, on the Keisei Main Line. Generally it has 3 stopping trains in each direction every 10 minutes, with additional non-stop trains at peak times, on a single island platform. There are level crossings immediately on both sides of the station. And they are down a lot. However, importantly, within the 800m stretch of that line, centred on the station, there are 5 level crossings for roads, 2 pedestrian and cycle only level crossings, and a footbridge over the station, served by lifts on both sides. So the actual inconvenience is limited, because the traffic is spread out.

It does sound like the Japanese are more pragmatic about the amount of time the barriers need to be down, but presumably still having a pretty high level of safety.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 May 2026 ==

Wire gradient was the issue, though the electrification team considered that the final design and installation at Steventon was good for 125 mph - in other words the specification (for max line speed versus wire gradient) was over-cautious.

What a surprise.

 

[HSTEd]

Perhaps the (I think?) two level crossings on the St Ives Branch, because then the line could convert to a cable hauled automated solution with lower costs.

 

[Instinct04]

You know, I've been thinking about that myself. I've been wondering about putting forth a proposal to change the level crossing on Ordnance Road into a rail bridge, similar to the one at Lincoln Road (only, much nicer aesthetically).

I think there is a proposal to make the eastern end of Eastfield Road/Bell Lane (the bit that is fenced off by a yellow gate) into a bridge over the railway line. Only issue is that you’d need to demolish a warehouse.

The main issue is the 121 bus, being a double decker. That, and transforming that part of the road would take a long time, potentially leaving key routes for road and rail closed. There are bypasses, such as Mollison Avenue, which the 121 currently takes when on diversion, but it isn't something that would be palatable for a lot of people. It's hard to convince people that months of closure far outweighs perpetual traffic for the rest of their lives.

I’ve also seen proposals to reroute the 121 to Enfield Island Village via Nags Head Road and Mollison Avenue. I think the 307 would take over the section between Ponders End and Enfield Lock, or maybe something else. Enfield Lock is a pretty dense area so it needs a bus service of at least every 10 minutes passing through it.

I wouldn’t propose doing anything with Enfield Lock crossing other than closing it. Rebuilding it into a tunnel would be extremely costly and lengthy and would inconvenience a lot of people. Same as Brimsdown.

 

[Zomboid]

does sound like the Japanese are more pragmatic about the amount of time the barriers need to be down, but presumably still having a pretty high level of safety

They have quite a different culture. One thing I noticed when I was there (admittedly in a more rural place) was that drivers all stopped to check before crossing, even where there were barriers. I suspect misuse of level crossings occurs at a much lower frequency than it does here.

 

[MatthewHutton]

They have quite a different culture. One thing I noticed when I was there (admittedly in a more rural place) was that drivers all stopped to check before crossing, even where there were barriers. I suspect misuse of level crossings occurs at a much lower frequency than it does here.

I don't think the barriers coming down a million years before the train turns up helps with misuse.

But also probably stricter penalities if you break the rules would help.

 

[WideRanger]

I don't think the barriers coming down a million years before the train turns up helps with misuse.

But also probably stricter penalities if you break the rules would help.

It's the law that vehicles have to come to a complete stop before crossing level crossings. Many a driver has been caught out by police stings on people who haven't quite stopped.

Most crossings have multiple detectors against people crossing when the barriers are coming down - with visual warnings to drivers. And often much slower train speeds.

There are plenty of hits of the barriers. That's why most crossings have spare barrier arms stored next to them, so they can be replaced very quickly.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

It's the law that vehicles have to come to a complete stop before crossing level crossings.

Eh? Where exactly is that so stipulated?

 

[Zomboid]

Eh? Where exactly is that so stipulated?

I think that's a reference to the law in Japan. Where drivers do stop before crossing, at least anecdotally.

 

[The exile]

Eh? Where exactly is that so stipulated?

If it applies at all,it must mean ungated ones (certainly does in Germany, for what it’s worth, where people have been pulled over for not doing so, despite the saplings growing through the tracks.)

 

[WideRanger]

I think that's a reference to the law in Japan. Where drivers do stop before crossing, at least anecdotally.

Sorry for the ambiguity. I meant in Japan. And it is pretty much universally respected. Getting caught just once (and to be clear - this is not crossing when the lights are on, it's not coming to a complete stop before the crossing when there are no red lights) means your insurance premium goes up automatically and significantly for the next 5 years. Get caught 3 times, and you additionally lose your license for a month. And the chances of getting caught are really high. As a result there is very high compliance, which feeds a further pressure on everyone to comply.

 

[zwk500]

I don't think the barriers coming down a million years before the train turns up helps with misuse.

At AHBs the barriers come down with the train in close proximity (visible in open areas) and people still race the train.

But also probably stricter penalities if you break the rules would help.

The potential penalty of being killed doesnt seem to put people off. What penalty were you thinking of?

 

[MatthewHutton]

At AHBs the barriers come down with the train in close proximity (visible in open areas) and people still race the train.

I bet the ones at Bicester village for example come down before the train arrives in the station when it’s going towards London.

EDIT: As per https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0rg940nwydo it’s 4 minutes a train. No idea why any of them other than the services from Milton Keynes need it closed that long as they are either stopping in the station or the approach speed is like 30mph.

has the barriers down for a minute and a half total.

The potential penalty of being killed doesnt seem to put people off. What penalty were you thinking of?

The Japanese penalities look higher as per @WideRanger .

Like in Taiwan there’s a £25,000 fine for smoking on the metro (probably reduced to £5,000 for a first offence). So people don’t.

 

[zwk500]

I bet the ones at Bicester village for example come down before the train arrives in the station when it’s going towards London.

EDIT: As per https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0rg940nwydo it’s 4 minutes a train. No idea why any of them other than the services from Milton Keynes need it closed that long as they are either stopping in the station or the approach speed is like 30mph.

has the barriers down for a minute and a half total.

You've ignored my point that even where crossings are only down for c.30 seconds before the train arrives, people still run the barriers.

The Japanese penalities look higher as per @WideRanger .

Like in Taiwan there’s a £25,000 fine for smoking on the metro (probably reduced to £5,000 for a first offence). So people don’t.

Is £25,000 fine more serious than potentially killing yourself or others?

 

[MatthewHutton]

You've ignored my point that even where crossings are only down for c.30 seconds before the train arrives, people still run the barriers

But there’s lots of places in Europe and the UK where it’s much longer than that so people assume.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 May 2026 ==

Is £25,000 fine more serious than potentially killing yourself or others?

Yes because the latter is very unlikely and people are bad at judging risk.

 

[brad465]

But there’s lots of places in Europe and the UK where it’s much longer than that so people assume.

Yes any fully-gated crossing where the signalling system will only permit passage when the crossing is closed to road traffic has to have a long lead time so trains don't get checked down with restrictive aspects.

One level crossing that could definitely do with closing, but is in such an awkward geographical position that an alternative route is very difficult, is East Farleigh. The setup of the station is such that a train calling at the station in either direction has passed the signal protecting the crossing, so the barriers are down for both the run-up to the station and while the train is calling. Furthermore, it's next to a narrow bridge over the Medway, so traffic builds up on the bridge that delays passage of traffic queuing down the hill that has to wait to pass. It would probably be cheaper to re-site the station to have less disruptive crossing closures than close the crossing and have an alternative route.

 

[MatthewHutton]

Yes any fully-gated crossing where the signalling system will only permit passage when the crossing is closed to road traffic has to have a long lead time so trains don't get checked down with restrictive aspects

So how do the Japanese manage far shorter lead times and still deliver presumably a very high level of safety.

 

[Zomboid]

So how do the Japanese manage far shorter lead times and still deliver presumably a very high level of safety.

I would imagine the totally different road rules play a part in that.

 

[MatthewHutton]

I would imagine the totally different road rules play a part in that.

So let’s switch to the Japanese rules then.

EDIT: If we are talking car rules they behave pretty similarly to the British - perhaps a touch faster.

 

[Zomboid]

So let’s switch to the Japanese rules then.

EDIT: If we are talking car rules they behave pretty similarly to the British - perhaps a touch faster.

I'm not sure that requiring drivers to come to a complete stop before crossing the railway is going to fly in the UK.

 

[MatthewHutton]

I'm not sure that requiring drivers to come to a complete stop before crossing the railway is going to fly in the UK.

Fair. But I fail to see why that requires the barriers to come down 150 seconds sooner than Japan.

 

[Zomboid]

Fair. But I fail to see why that requires the barriers to come down 150 seconds sooner than Japan.

Japan has a totally different set of laws, standards and cultural norms. I don't know why they do things differently in this instance, but you couldn't just transplant their practice to the UK and expect it to work.

 

[MatthewHutton]

Japan has a totally different set of laws, standards and cultural norms. I don't know why they do things differently in this instance, but you couldn't just transplant their practice to the UK and expect it to work.

The big difference I suspect is that stuff like

and

is grandfathered in and the safety increase from having a longer window is small.

 

[och aye]

Is there any research/documentation as to how many level crossings (I think there are roughly circa 6,000 still on the network) that could realistically be closed or replaced with an overpass/underpass/bridge/subway?

 

[Bald Rick]

Is there any research/documentation as to how many level crossings (I think there are roughly circa 6,000 still on the network) that could realistically be closed or replaced with an overpass/underpass/bridge/subway?

Depends what you mean by ‘realistically’.

The majority of closures in the past 20 years - of which there have been over 1000 - have not been replaced, except by a fence. There’s probably another thousand or so that could go the same way, but it requires specialised legal and property expertise.

 

[markymark2000]

I am not sure about if they would bring 'great benefits' to anyone, but in the interests of culling the numbers of level crossings and doing so by causing only minimal disruption to it's users, here are a few candidates.

• Nantwich Cronkinsons Farm and Cronkinsons Footpath - closing one of these would be sensible. The diversion route adds a maximum 5 minutes onto the journey.
• Duffryn Clydach near Neath could probably be closed. It's only open for pedestrians and the pedestrian diversion is tiny via Jenkins Road. It's only on the freight line though so depends if you are willing to go through the costs of removing it basically for the sake of it.

There's also a few which could probably be easily made into foot crossings only. This would save money as you wouldn't need so many barriers and so should be cheaper to run longer term and should make them safer if you are dealing with less people/things crossing.

• Nantwich, Shrewbridge Road could be reduced to a foot crossing as the road diversion is only a few minutes over the main crossing near the station.
• Southport, Portland Street & Duke Street crossings could be easily changed to pedestrians only as the diversion for motor vehicles is minimal.
• Maghull Station would probably be an easy one to close to motorists (diversion is around 3 minutes via Poverty Lane) but for pedestrians you'd either need to keep the crossing or look at an access for all bridge which works for both the station, and for general use.
• Liverpool Waterloo, St Johns Road. diversion for motorists would be a 2 minute via Waterloo Station Road. There's already a pedestrian bridge here too but not ideal for people who struggle and/or can't manage stairs and cyclists.

It all depends if there is political will though to close level crossings, and take the steps to make it easier and cheaper to downgrade or even remove crossings where there are suitable alternative routes with minimal diversion (minimal <5 minutes difference for each mode that is affected. Ie if a car would be 5 minute diversion but a pedestrian would be 10-15 minutes then it should be downgraded to foot crossing. If the pedestrian diversion is <5 minutes too then cut the crossing completely).

 

[Dave61]

If we were talking about Rail Crossings - wouldn’t Newark win hands down?

I think improving rail crossings (and even more rail bottlenecks) would fill several parallel discussions.