HS2 could cost up to £102.7bn and trains won't start until at least 2036

[Trainman40083]

We had a lot of income from 'the Empire' back in the glorious past. We have to EARN the money these days- not just talk of 'hard-working families'. GB is poorly productive and low on investment. GB is #25 in terms of GDP per capita. 'Working life' is a fraction of 'life expectancy'. I have no wish to work longer hours, or to retire later, or to pay more taxes, or any. I won't vote for any party promising that. I need to get real- and I won't. I've had the government I 'deserve'- defeatism and low aspiration. Where there is no vision, the people perish. This was recognised some three millenia ago. Nothing new under the sun.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 May 2026 ==


Good luck to that man getting himself and his mobility scooter onto an HS2 train, when it comes ...

Whilst he might see level boarding , he'll never catch it at Rugeley

 

[The Planner]

Good luck to that man getting himself and his mobility scooter onto an HS2 train, when it comes ...

Why?

 

[BrianW]

Why?

IIUC, the HS2 platforms at Old Oak are not at the height agreed as a 'standard' some time ago, but same as the Elizabeth line. I'm picturing Ealing Braodway as an exmple of new trains and existing station platforms. Level boarding?!!

 

[JamesT]

IIUC, the HS2 platforms at Old Oak are not at the height agreed as a 'standard' some time ago, but same as the Elizabeth line. I'm picturing Ealing Braodway as an exmple of new trains and existing station platforms. Level boarding?!!

The HS2 train floor height is pretty much the same as existing express trains in this country. You have steps to get onto a Pendolino, you’ll have steps to get on a 895. But the platforms at the dedicated stations are built to match the new rolling stock so will be level boarding.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The HS2 train floor height is pretty much the same as existing express trains in this country. You have steps to get onto a Pendolino, you’ll have steps to get on a 895. But the platforms at the dedicated stations are built to match the new rolling stock so will be level boarding.

This is the most stupid piece of design for HS2 and for the Liz. And all because of the Heathrow platforms costing a bit to lower... it locks in inaccessibility basically forever when low floor high speed trains exist now.

 

[SynthD]

This is the most stupid piece of design for HS2 and for the Liz. And all because of the Heathrow platforms costing a bit to lower.

No, it's because Heathrow own them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No, it's because Heathrow own them.

And I'm sure would agree to them being lowered if the cost of doing so was paid.

It's just cost.

 

[SynthD]

I see, it's the cost of the works plus the cost of convincing them to do something they don't want on their private property.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I cant say im surprised, but how it can possibly be another 10 years, even given the most bloated management ect, the infrastructure is basically done, 10 years of track laying is inconceivablely slow

Mark Wilde stated at this week Transport Select Committee that they are pushing hard to start tracklaying by 2029 and that will take 3 years with OLE and signalling following behind concurrently then testing, commissioning and trial running. To my mind its way too long and I don't get why they don't start tracklaying where they have section of civils that are completed of say 10 miles long.

 

[mmh]

Mark Wilde stated at this week Transport Select Committee that they are pushing hard to start tracklaying by 2029 and that will take 3 years with OLE and signalling following behind concurrently then testing, commissioning and trial running. To my mind its way too long and I don't get why they don't start tracklaying where they have section of civils that are completed of say 10 miles long.

The cynic in me would say that fits perfectly - there'll be a general election by then, so don't start on anything new until after it. Even if that is unfair, we are definitely well into the performative politics stage with this project.

 

[Trainman40083]

Mark Wilde stated at this week Transport Select Committee that they are pushing hard to start tracklaying by 2029 and that will take 3 years with OLE and signalling following behind concurrently then testing, commissioning and trial running. To my mind its way too long and I don't get why they don't start tracklaying where they have section of civils that are completed of say 10 miles long.

Won't be much signalling as such. In cab signalling, with few lineside signals.

 

[Annetts key]

Won't be much signalling as such. In cab signalling, with few lineside signals.

Still need point operating equipment and train detection (likely axle counters) along with telecommunications cables, power cables for the signalling location cupboards/cubicles and radio towers for the radio link to the trains.

 

[Tezza1978]

The cynic in me would say that fits perfectly - there'll be a general election by then, so don't start on anything new until after it. Even if that is unfair, we are definitely well into the performative politics stage with this project.

By the next election all civils will be complete and OOC and Curzon St will already be complete I think? With GWML through trains running through OOC at least and the Euston tunnels complete? I don't think the fact that the general election will probably be July 2029 will come in to Wild's thinking. Despite the bluster from the Fagash Fuhrer no one is going to demolish a railway that is civil-wise complete [I still think the most likely outcome of 2029 is some kind of "rainbow" coalition but that's veerring off topic]

 

[JamesT]

By the next election all civils will be complete and OOC and Curzon St will already be complete I think? With GWML through trains running through OOC at least and the Euston tunnels complete? I don't think the fact that the general election will probably be July 2029 will come in to Wild's thinking. Despite the bluster from the Fagash Fuhrer no one is going to demolish a railway that is civil-wise complete [I still think the most likely outcome of 2029 is some kind of "rainbow" coalition but that's veerring off topic]

I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a general election well before 2029. If Starmer is replaced, the new PM might want to go to the country early to get their own mandate.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

By the next election all civils will be complete and OOC and Curzon St will already be complete I think? With GWML through trains running through OOC at least and the Euston tunnels complete? I don't think the fact that the general election will probably be July 2029 will come in to Wild's thinking. Despite the bluster from the Fagash Fuhrer no one is going to demolish a railway that is civil-wise complete [I still think the most likely outcome of 2029 is some kind of "rainbow" coalition but that's veerring off topic]

Wilds reset is predicated on concurrent activities and no doubt that his experience from Crossrail where trying to parallel work was their undoing and the new baseline coming next April seals the fate of the timeline now such that any new government would have no ability to change the outcome short of suspending project.

Personally I would be pushing back against what Wild is proposing but Alexander & Hendy have rolled over maybe after the Crossrail debacle and want to play it ultra safe.

 

[The Planner]

Mark Wilde stated at this week Transport Select Committee that they are pushing hard to start tracklaying by 2029 and that will take 3 years with OLE and signalling following behind concurrently then testing, commissioning and trial running. To my mind its way too long and I don't get why they don't start tracklaying where they have section of civils that are completed of say 10 miles long.

How are you getting the track there? It will need to be delivered by rail.

 

[Trainman40083]

How are you getting the track there? It will need to be delivered by rail.

I wonder where track laying will start? Possibly where it crosses East /West line

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 May 2026 ==

Still need point operating equipment and train detection (likely axle counters) along with telecommunications cables, power cables for the signalling location cupboards/cubicles and radio towers for the radio link to the trains.

Indeed, but significantly less than on a conventional railway.

 

[Snow1964]

Still need point operating equipment and train detection (likely axle counters) along with telecommunications cables, power cables for the signalling location cupboards/cubicles and radio towers for the radio link to the trains.

That's true, but there are already sections that are virtually ready for fit out, the bored tunnels, Colne Valley etc. And earthworks (at least the trackbed, if not nearby landscaping) on a number of sections are expected to be complete this year.

It is not clear to me (and many others by comments in this thread), why it appears no fibre optic cables, or concrete trackbed cannot be installed on the ready sections in 2027 or 2028, and everything has to wait until at least 2029.

Some sections of Spanish and Italian high speed lines are being opened within 2 or 3 years of trackbed construction. So why do English need nearer 7-8 years, to fit what basically has same European signal and Catenary system

 

[mmh]

That's true, but there are already sections that are virtually ready for fit out, the bored tunnels, Colne Valley etc. And earthworks (at least the trackbed, if not nearby landscaping) on a number of sections are expected to be complete this year.

It is not clear to me (and many others by comments in this thread), why it appears no fibre optic cables, or concrete trackbed cannot be installed on the ready sections in 2027 or 2028, and everything has to wait until at least 2029

Money, project management and the uncertainty over whether any of this will actually ever be in use.

 

[The Planner]

I wonder where track laying will start? Possibly where it crosses East /West line

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 May 2026 ==


Indeed, but significantly less than on a conventional railway.

At the Curzon St end as a temporary track delivery connection is being built, Berkswell as the same thing is happening there and likely Calvert. Probably at Copthall too at the southern end.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 May 2026 ==

That's true, but there are already sections that are virtually ready for fit out, the bored tunnels, Colne Valley etc. And earthworks (at least the trackbed, if not nearby landscaping) on a number of sections are expected to be complete this year.

It is not clear to me (and many others by comments in this thread), why it appears no fibre optic cables, or concrete trackbed cannot be installed on the ready sections in 2027 or 2028, and everything has to wait until at least 2029.

Some sections of Spanish and Italian high speed lines are being opened within 2 or 3 years of trackbed construction. So why do English need nearer 7-8 years, to fit what basically has same European signal and Catenary system

As I noted previously, unless you are delivering all that by road, you have no rail connections yet. Track, OLE etc will all come in by rail.

 

[Trainman40083]

At the Curzon St end as a temporary track delivery connection is being built, Berkswell as the same thing is happening there and likely Calvert. Probably at Copthall too at the southern end.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 May 2026 ==


As I noted previously, unless you are delivering all that by road, you have no rail connections yet. Track, OLE etc will all come in by rail.

So given it is a new railway, will the OHLE structures be mass installed by some form of track machine? Drill , install, move on...

 

[Snow1964]

As I noted previously, unless you are delivering all that by road, you have no rail connections yet. Track, OLE etc will all come in by rail.

The actual rails and contact wires yes, but for nearly all the route they haven't removed the haul roads, and having laid haul roads, they could have used them.

Do you seriously think masts or signal cables etc couldn't have been delivered by the expensively constructed haul roads, even if they are not physically installed for a while.

 

[The Planner]

So given it is a new railway, will the OHLE structures be mass installed by some form of track machine? Drill , install, move on...

No idea, i expect similar to normal, piles/bases for the structure, steel erected and a wiring train.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 May 2026 ==

The actual rails and contact wires yes, but for nearly all the route they haven't removed the haul roads, and having laid haul roads, they could have used them.

Do you seriously think masts or signal cables etc couldn't have been delivered by the expensively constructed haul roads, even if they are not physically installed for a while.

Of course they could, but considering the outrage HS2 suffers from putting lorries on the road they won't.

 

[Annetts key]

Although some prep. work could be done for the signalling, normally cable laying was done from an engineering train.

If there is a "road" for suitable vehicles, it could be done before the track is ready. But, normally you want to avoid the cables being damaged by the track laying activities. Same for everything else...

During track laying on the existing railway infrastructure, cables, location cupboards and even main aspect signals have been hit...

In terms of preparation works, building the location cupboards / cabinets (installing much of the equipment in them) for the signalling and for the 650V power distribution can be done off site in a factory.

 

[Stossgebet]

And now i can imagine multiple news stories over the next few years about 'cable theft'.
How on earth do you secure a site that's a hundred miles long?

 

[3RDGEN]

It is not clear to me (and many others by comments in this thread), why it appears no fibre optic cables, or concrete trackbed cannot be installed on the ready sections in 2027 or 2028, and everything has to wait until at least 2029.

HS2 spend of £24Billion was approved under the spending review last year, approx £6Billion per year, as such there is no more money to do extra works until 2029. If you work on continuing at that spend rate beyond 2029 then you see where 2036ish comes from, it's money and resources which HS2 is taking from everywhere else.

 

[Trainman40083]

Although some prep. work could be done for the signalling, normally cable laying was done from an engineering train.

If there is a "road" for suitable vehicles, it could be done before the track is ready. But, normally you want to avoid the cables being damaged by the track laying activities. Same for everything else...

During track laying on the existing railway infrastructure, cables, location cupboards and even main aspect signals have been hit...

In terms of preparation works, building the location cupboards / cabinets (installing much of the equipment in them) for the signalling and for the 650V power distribution can be done off site in a factory.

But how much physical signalling will there be? You don't see much on HS1, except where it meets a conventional line such as Ashford. Talking of cabinets, the company I worked for used to build them, tested, ready to install.

 

[FMerrymon]

HS2 spend of £24Billion was approved under the spending review last year, approx £6Billion per year, as such there is no more money to do extra works until 2029. If you work on continuing at that spend rate beyond 2029 then you see where 2036ish comes from, it's money and resources which HS2 is taking from everywhere else.

Is this a reduction in yearly spend? I thought they were doing an annual rate of £7bn.

Taking into account the high construction inflation, additional cost of material that was to be sourced from Ukraine, the mismanagement, cancellation costs, potential compensation payouts for delay, that could pile up on a lower cost per year.

 

[3RDGEN]

Is this a reduction in yearly spend? I thought they were doing an annual rate of £7bn.

Taking into account the high construction inflation, additional cost of material that was to be sourced from Ukraine, the mismanagement, cancellation costs, potential compensation payouts for delay, that could pile up on a lower cost per year.

It was reported at £25.3Billion over four years last July so on average that's £6.3Billion/year, it may vary year on year and inflation will affect the "cash" terms but that's the signed off spend for those four years. A Billion here and there doesn't appear to matter on HS2.

"https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/hs2-6-monthly-report-to-parliament-july-2025" - "The government’s determination to now see this programme delivered as efficiently as possible is underpinned by the allocation of £25.3 billion (nominal prices) of funding over 4 years in the Spending Review, "

 

[FMerrymon]

It was reported at £25.3Billion over four years last July so on average that's £6.3Billion/year, it may vary year on year and inflation will affect the "cash" terms but that's the signed off spend for those four years. A Billion here and there doesn't appear to matter on HS2.

This is what happened when they capped at £7bn

From: https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/hs2-update-following-cancellation-of-phase-2.pdf

The total cost of the programme is also affected by the timing of funding. Up to 2022-23, HS2 Ltd had some flexibility to move funding between financial years and secured the level of annual funding it requested from DfT to meet the planned schedule. However, in March 2023, DfT instructed HS2 Ltd to meet an annual funding constraint for 2023-24 and 2024-25, in response to HM Treasury spending restraints for those years aimed at managing inflationary pressures. To meet its annual budget, HS2 Ltd slowed work on Phase 2a, Euston and parts of Phase 1, including pausing the start of major construction work on Phase 2a for two years. In March 2024, HS2 Ltd assessed that this deferral would increase Phase 1 costs by between £1.9 billion and £3.1 billion (2019 prices). These deferral costs have not yet been assured and approved by DfT.

I see they spent 7.1bn last year so seems like they are keeping to 7, perhaps it's 3.5 years and just rounded up to 4.