doc7austin
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DSB Talgo - start of passenger operation
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doc7austin
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doc7austin
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Hamburg Hauptbahnhof:
jamesontheroad
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doc7austin
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So, I remember now: the very lovely DSB conductor actually offered me a free hot drink somewhere between Copenhagen and Ringsted. I declined, as I am not so much into coffee.
U-Bahnfreund
Member
can confirm ride quality on the DB ICE L is also good, nothing to be afraid of. Also there all windows line up with seats, looks better than on the DSB one
Indeed, for reasons explained in post #21.
TheHSRailFan
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only get afraid of talgo ride quality if its running on Iberian Gauge as I've found out and been told.
You should be able to see the planning on vagonweb.cz. What runs in reality depends on what's available, which I understand from posts on DSO relatively often isn't what's planned...
Gerald Fiennes
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Last week, it seemed to be just one train each way from Copenhagen to Hamburg and return. The train was fine, but it did seem quite noisy compared with the IC3 fleet and the ride quality wasn't quite as good either. Too bad they can't keep the IC3 fleet going any longer!
I'm just on ICE 2375 headed towards Hamburg from Niebüll. It's interesting to compare the DB Talgo ICE L with the Danish version. The Danish version has a loco at each end whereas DB runs with one loco. Thus although I'm in the driving first trailer, the loco is attached in front of us. DSB offers free food and drinks whereas DB offers these at seat, but for a fee!
There's a vertical service duct next to the bogie at the very end of carriage 17 (driving first trailer). Every time the train brakes there's a huge hissing noise emanating from this, seriously worrying fellow passengers! I think it's merely the air brake system, but curious they fed the pipe through the first class quiet (psst) zone!!!!
I didn't notice this on the DSB version. As for the ride quality, sitting over the bogies does give a more conventional ride feel. Sitting in an articulated vehicle you do notice more lurch.....
There's a vertical service duct next to the bogie at the very end of carriage 17 (driving first trailer). Every time the train brakes there's a huge hissing noise emanating from this, seriously worrying fellow passengers! I think it's merely the air brake system, but curious they fed the pipe through the first class quiet (psst) zone!!!!
I didn't notice this on the DSB version. As for the ride quality, sitting over the bogies does give a more conventional ride feel. Sitting in an articulated vehicle you do notice more lurch.....
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Could this be because the driving trailers aren't certified yet?
It seems to be fairly common for push-pull sets to initially have to operate conventionally until things are sorted out.
43096
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That's only temporary until DSB have their Talgo driving trailers delivered. The sets will then be formed with a Vectron at one end in push/pull mode.
@peteb said they were sitting in a driving trailer.
And given the articulated nature of the Talgo rakes I'm having trouble visualising how one would operate with an end coach missing. Even the older style of Talgos needed a non articulated axle at the outer ends where the "ICE-L"s have conventional bogies.
DanielB
Established Member
He also stated being on an ICE, so that will have been a DB ICE-L.
AFAIK DSB ordered sets without driving trailer initially and placed a seperate order for those driving trailers later.
43096
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Correct. The first eight DSB sets were ordered with no driving trailer and an end car with conventioonal couplers at both ends - the plan was to run them with a Vectron on both ends. The second order for eight sets effectively has a driving trailer at both ends. Obviously the sets will be re-formed to give an end car one end and a driving trailer at the other so that all the sets are in the same formation. Presumably DSB realised it was overkill to have two Vectrons on each set and the driving trailer order is presumably much cheaper than ordering another 16 locos from Siemens!
Fair point. I missed that.
Ah. I see how that all works now.
That all seems rather odd, unless perhaps it was always intended to be done that way to give more time to get approval for the driving trailers.
Yes, I guess that's the reason
From what I've heard, they realised that it could be problematic running with a loco in each end to Germany. During the stop in Padborg, one loco would be under 15 kV and the other under 25 kV.
43096
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I don’t believe that on the basis that a) they run loco both ends from Denmark to Germany now and b) there are other examples of locos changing voltage when at the rear (eg RailJets into Hungary, TRAXX between Belgium and Netherlands). Clearly the multiple working system can cope with it without issue.
When DSB started the tender in 2018 there wasn't any approved cab car on the market and there wasn't any orders for cab cars. For only 8 units DSB decided it was too risky and too expensive to demand cab cars that should be developed, testet and certified in both Germany and Denmark. DSB was also hoping for a speedy delivery in 2022 to replace the IC3 units and because the Siemens Vectrons would all be delivered by 2022.
When DB bought cab cars from Talgo in 2019 and Alstom announced delays for the IC5/Coradia Stream it was decided to turn the very expensive 8 Talgo's with two locomotives each into 16 reasonable priced Talgo's with one locomotive each. Using two Vectrons for 15 light weight Talgo coaches is overkill and very expensive.
When DB bought cab cars from Talgo in 2019 and Alstom announced delays for the IC5/Coradia Stream it was decided to turn the very expensive 8 Talgo's with two locomotives each into 16 reasonable priced Talgo's with one locomotive each. Using two Vectrons for 15 light weight Talgo coaches is overkill and very expensive.
FormerBritInMe
Member
That would only be an issue for equipment with a high voltage bus between pantograph equipped equipment.
They had that problem in Philadelphia with the 1930 era EMUs that had a high voltage bus between cars so that they could run a train with fewer pantographs extended to reduce wear on the wire. When they linked the former Reading and PRR systems with a tunnel, since the 2 systems were the same voltage/frequency (11KV 25 Hz) but were fed separately with a phase break between them, they had to remove this bus due to the risk of a train bridging both sections simultaneously.
Or maybe they solved the problem? But it was a rumour I heard and I don't know more than that.
SephenWorceste
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The Talgo for ECE 396 from Hamburg to Copenhagen today made it as far as Padborg. Some people also had stood all the way as the previous train had been cancelled.
We had to disembark using temporary steps at two doors. Initially promised busses. I would have abandoned my journey if that happened.
Eventually a two danish trains arrived, are coupled and we get on. At least on these trains everybody had a seat and the drinks machine worked.
We arrived in Copenhagen over an hour late. Two hours if you consider they added a hour two days earlier.
I overheard the DB guard tell a passenger that the issue was the locamotive was not allowed in Denmark. The passenger was not the happy as I believe he had experienced the issue before.
Nothing wrong with the Talgo but the DBS IR4? was a better train. Quieter and smoother. Standard class did not feel like a seat downgrade from first on the Talgo.
I safely arrived at Malmo so am not complaining. I just thought you might be interested.
We had to disembark using temporary steps at two doors. Initially promised busses. I would have abandoned my journey if that happened.
Eventually a two danish trains arrived, are coupled and we get on. At least on these trains everybody had a seat and the drinks machine worked.
We arrived in Copenhagen over an hour late. Two hours if you consider they added a hour two days earlier.
I overheard the DB guard tell a passenger that the issue was the locamotive was not allowed in Denmark. The passenger was not the happy as I believe he had experienced the issue before.
Nothing wrong with the Talgo but the DBS IR4? was a better train. Quieter and smoother. Standard class did not feel like a seat downgrade from first on the Talgo.
I safely arrived at Malmo so am not complaining. I just thought you might be interested.
Denmark's own locomotive is not allowed in Denmark? Or are they using weird hire-in stuff?
The Pelican
Member
Those DSB units with rubber gaskets (or enormously wide corridor connections) on the front are incredible trains- they look like a Class 158 (British 1990s longer distance DMU) and have seats like a Mk4 carriage- really comfortable.
They split on the move too - that is quite something!
Rarely, as it requires two drivers on-board. But they can do it, and there are a few cool videos about it around the internet that I have seen!