Great British Railways - First Train in New Livery

[Goldfish62]

Why is BR tarnished? No one under the age of about 40 will have much if any memory of it anyway. Generally BR made the best of what they had available to them.

“British Railways” sounds a lot snappier than GBR.

@physics34 said that BR's legacy is tarnished unfairly. That's very different from saying BR was tarnished, and I think is a true reflection of how the memory of BR is held in the national psyche, however unfairly.

That alone has undoubtedly prevented the resurrection of the BR name.

 

[43096]

That alone has undoubtedly prevented the resurrection of the BR name.

But the logo is absolutely fine!

 

[Merle Haggard]

Why is BR tarnished? No one under the age of about 40 will have much if any memory of it anyway. Generally BR made the best of what they had available to them.

“British Railways” sounds a lot snappier than GBR.

At the time the reason given to staff for the change from 'British Railways' to 'British Rail' was that in the former the pronunciation of the second word tailed off at the end, whereas 'Rail' sounded snappier because of the hard consonant at the end.

 

[northernbelle]

That was my point really. A lot of people seem to think liveries these days are applied as vinyl as standard. That is most certainly not the case.

Even with vinyl you still need to a good, solid paint base underneath.

Incidentally, on the TPE livery the pale grey is the base paint coat, with the extra colours applied over it as vinyl due to the livery complexity. The Chiltern Mk5s were done in vinyl as the paint coat would have still been well within warranty. Same with the South Eastern 707s.

I'm pretty certain the pale grey on TPE livery is also part of the vinyl wrap - the finished pale grey is slightly different to the base coat of grey paint in that it has a slightly metallic finish.

The Nova fleets are base painted grey, and the 185s are dark blue from memory.

You can just about make out the vinyl join in the attached.

 

[bramling]

@physics34 said that BR's legacy is tarnished unfairly. That's very different from saying BR was tarnished, and I think is a true reflection of how the memory of BR is held in the national psyche, however unfairly.

That alone has undoubtedly prevented the resurrection of the BR name.

Kind of sums up everything that’s wrong with this country. Rather than just go back to BR and actually make it work well, let’s just choose a different name.

Just thinking of current and recent TOCs, once the name is over two words people tend to use the initials rather than the name.

 

[adc82140]

It's not terrible but I think I'd prefer a more BA tail flowing style.

What I really dislike is Great British Railways, how about British Rail?

Being pedantic, as Scotrail and TfW will continue to exist, it should really be English Rail.

 

[Russel]

Being pedantic, as Scotrail and TfW will continue to exist, it should really be English Rail.

No thanks, the nationalism is almost too much to stomach as it is!

 

[Northerngirl]

Is there any european country that has a) one livery for all trains, and b) has a livery consisting so much of their flag. This seems to be so over done and in your face that I just don't understand it

 

[Merle Haggard]

Is there any european country that has a) one livery for all trains, and b) has a livery consisting so much of their flag. This seems to be so over done and in your face that I just don't understand it

You don't have to look far - Scotland / Scotrail.
Externally, the Saltire is formed when coaches are coupled (there's a half on each coach end). Internally, the Saltire seems to be the basis of the carpet and seat moquette design.
Wales/TfW might also be a contender although based on colours of flag rather than flag itself, Grand central livery retained for expediency otherwise standard.
The GBR livery doesn't seem to be applied internally yet - not sure what it will be.

 

[Electrostar387]

Being pedantic, as Scotrail and TfW will continue to exist, it should really be English Rail.

Have pondered this too, but personally think "Rail England" trips off the tongue nicely.

 

[Trackman]

It looks fine to me, I imagine it will evolve over time especially in the early days.

It's no NSE Livery!

A sort of relation I would say.

Being pedantic, as Scotrail and TfW will continue to exist, it should really be English Rail.

But they would be setting off from Scotland and Wales though.

 

[adc82140]

But they would be setting off from Scotland and Wales though.

TfW start journeys in Birmingham and Manchester.

Have pondered this too, but personally think "Rail England" trips off the tongue nicely.

How about RailUK? Oh wait.....

No thanks, the nationalism is almost too much to stomach as it is!

How is the word "England" nationalism? That just plays into the hands of the far right. It's a descriptive term for where the trains run. Nobody's asking for "Rule Britannia Rail". Actually, ironically the red & white of the George Cross form the basis of the TfW livery.

 

[AndrewP]

What? Plain white?

I meant the previous Southern livery - I forgot that some of the 387s were unbranded - my bad!

 

[800001]

From a source at LNER

First two Azuma’s are being wrapped in GBR livery end of June. Then it’ll be two per month that’ll be wrapped until the fleet are all done

 

[Bletchleyite]

From a source at LNER

Now that's a bad move. LNER is probably one of the most respected brands on the railway...

(Yes, I know, people here hate the fare trial, but in terms of the public's views on the railway they must surely be highest ranking - and until the fares trial came along were here too)

 

[norbitonflyer]

That was my point really. A lot of people seem to think liveries these days are applied as vinyl as standard. That is most certainly not the case.

Even with vinyl you still need to a good, solid paint base underneath.

Thats the point, I think. Vinyl wraps are used when the original paintwork is still under warranty, as remiving it could invalidate the warranty nit only of the paint but of the vehicle itself (if for instance corrosion or leaks started to appear after the paint had been removed)

 

[Goldfish62]

Thats the point, I think. Vinyl wraps are used when the original paintwork is still under warranty, as remiving it could invalidate the warranty nit only of the paint but of the vehicle itself (if for instance corrosion or leaks started to appear after the paint had been removed)

Agreed!

 

[Merle Haggard]

Thats the point, I think. Vinyl wraps are used when the original paintwork is still under warranty, as remiving it could invalidate the warranty nit only of the paint but of the vehicle itself (if for instance corrosion or leaks started to appear after the paint had been removed)

Thames Trains retained NSE livery for that very reason.
But doesn't moisture get under vinyl and that causes its own problems?

 

[Cardiff123]

Boris Johnson's government came up with the "Great British Railways" name, during the initial post-Brexit years, when there was a strong dose of Johnson's signature "boosterism" added to everything the UK Government did, to prove we were better than the rest of the world at absolutely everything.

The UK Labour government had the chance to roll out a different, more pragmatic brand, but stuck with GBR, so now we'll have this livery plastered all over trains in England for the foreseeable future.

 

[Russel]

How is the word "England" nationalism? That just plays into the hands of the far right. It's a descriptive term for where the trains run. Nobody's asking for "Rule Britannia Rail". Actually, ironically the red & white of the George Cross form the basis of the TfW livery.

I'm not sure how plastering the word England on a 250ft long moving Union Jack flag can be seen as anything other than nationalism to be honest.

 

[Riverside Redz]

From a source at LNER

Real shame , didn’t want to lose this.

 

[Russel]

Now that's a bad move. LNER is probably one of the most respected brands on the railway...

(Yes, I know, people here hate the fare trial, but in terms of the public's views on the railway they must surely be highest ranking - and until the fares trial came along were here too)

Would suggest that what we're seeing on the 387 is the final livery then, there goes any hope of them tweaking it!

 

[bramling]

I'm not sure how plastering the word England on a 250ft long moving Union Jack flag can be seen as anything other than nationalism to be honest.

I don’t really see it as nationalism (no one seems to accuse Scotland of that as regards the ScotRail livery). However I still dislike it. The GBR title is a mouthful, and no we don’t need a train livery based on a flag. It just feels symptomatic of a country that is completely unsure of itself. Who is it aimed at? Joe Commuter who takes the train to work from Haywards Heath every morning knows they are in Britain.

I’d have been quite happy having a few regional liveries TBH. GWR’s would be fine for western, a variation of Southern’s for Southern (though this livery has had such a long life it is probably time for a change here), keep LNER’s for that route, etc etc etc. In essence I’d prefer something that shouts “railway” and/or “local area” rather than a pastiche flag.

I agree with the post suggesting the whole thing feels like a leftover from Boris Johnson. I suspect it will quickly become unpopular once people realise that this won’t be the start of some golden age for rail travel, but rather just a continuation and cementing in of the DFT micromanagement we have seen for some time now, especially post-Covid.

 

[Wolfie]

That looks bad - very amateurish and a poor replacement for the previous livery

Agreed. I find it mind-bogglingly poor. At least 10p spent on design...

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IMO it looks utterly ghastly. Everything about it is tacky.

Frankly I’d prefer to keep the mix of liveries we have now, as least when someone designs a horrific one like this then it has a shelf life and is only limited to a small area.

I suppose we’re stuck with this more or less forever, as once something is done that includes an attempt at including a flag it is hard to move on.

Absolutely dread to think what garish interior designs may arise from all this.

Spot on, sir, spot on.

 

[Zomboid]

Would suggest that what we're seeing on the 387 is the final livery then, there goes any hope of them tweaking it!

They haven't repainted everything yet, and no doubt there will be a reaction to the new look.

No idea whether it'll be mostly positive or, negative or neutral, but I would be surprised if every train on the network got the day 1 scheme with no adjustment.

 

[800001]

Agreed. I find it mind-bogglingly poor. At least 10p spent on design...

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Spot on, sir, spot on.

I had heard that it was the LNER design team who came up with the livery. How true, I do not know.

 

[Russel]

They haven't repainted everything yet, and no doubt there will be a reaction to the new look.

No idea whether it'll be mostly positive or, negative or neutral, but I would be surprised if every train on the network got the day 1 scheme with no adjustment.

No I know they haven't repainted everything, my point was that if they've signed off on re-liverying the LNER Azumas then we're not likley going to see any major changes to what we're seeing on the 387 and the design renders for the 800s.

 

[dosxuk]

Would suggest that what we're seeing on the 387 is the final livery then, there goes any hope of them tweaking it!

Why? The final application of NSE livery wasn't the same as the first, and neither was it with Intercity.

The design will naturally evolve from it's initial application, they always do. Not least there will be the desire for new stock to look different to old trains, even if it's the same basic idea.

 

[Russel]

Why? The final application of NSE livery wasn't the same as the first, and neither was it with Intercity.

The design will naturally evolve from it's initial application, they always do. Not least there will be the desire for new stock to look different to old trains, even if it's the same basic idea.

Oh I agree that it will evolve over time, my point was, and it seems to have been missed, is that there was some very good suggestions made such as centre cars being all over blue, when the artists impression was revealed earlier this year, but looking at the 387, it appears to be very similar to that which would suggest that the livery that the DFT have signed off on for the 800s will also be accurate to the original design.

 

[Davester50]

I don’t really see it as nationalism (no one seems to accuse Scotland of that as regards the ScotRail livery).

Oh it is though. Standard SG practice. Brand everything "Scotland".
We've lost our regional police and fire brigades names for Police Scotland and Scottish Fire and Rescue Service.
Lowest level school qualifications were Ordinary, then Standard, now National.

I'm underwhelmed by the GBR colours though. The blue is fine, the application of the flag a bit naff.