Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

[High Dyke]

The doors on the 810s slide the other way apparently.

Well, that's a bit bizarre. You would think the units were built to the same body style, even if they're different lengths.

Then again, it depends what the operator asked for.

 

[louis97]

Because when they cross at Kettering it almost always delays the express, particularly because the signalling changes from 4 aspect to 3 aspect at Wellingborough so they gave to slow as the signals are far apart and once passed a single yellow the next is red

To add to this, although the planning rules permit it, it has been proven that there is no slack in the margins in the planning rules if crossing at Kettering South (if timetabled correctly) E.g obviously if the Corby is late it will delay the train behind, but also if the Sheffield train is early it will be delayed because the timings take no account of the slow down required because you are running early. This delay is then immediately knocked onto the Nottingham behind because of the three aspect signalling.

It has also been proven that the adjustment allowance for the crossing move to the Down Slow at Kettering South is insufficient, and combine this with the existing adjustment gets put in the wrong place, you basically end up with a non compliant timetable, even if you look at the timings and it appears it is. All this then used to get very messy when the Up Nottingham was late, often the Corby would be held at Kettering South awaiting it to pass, with the Sheffield and Nottingham queuing behind.

Thankfully this is largely resolved now, the Weekday off peak was resolved in the December 2024 timetable (as part of this the dwell at Kettering in one of the Nottingham to London trains was increased to 2 minutes). Most of the Saturday has just been resolved in the timetable change this weekend. Hopefully in the coming years we will see the planning rules updated which will make crossing at Kettering South less of an option because it will have knock on effects further north due to the increased diverging headway value.

 

[QSK19]

Well, that's a bit bizarre. You would think the units were built to the same body style, even if they're different lengths.

Then again, it depends what the operator asked for.

I think the issue is essentially trying to squeeze 26m worth of stuff into 24m. Clearly that has led to a few necessary differences, one being the doors sliding “outwards” on the 810s.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 May 2026 ==

The doors on the 810s slide the other way apparently.

Indeed they do. See my post, number 6675, and the following one to see more context.

 

[800001]

I think the issue is essentially trying to squeeze 26m worth of stuff into 24m. Clearly that has led to a few necessary differences, one being the doors sliding “outwards” on the 810s.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 May 2026 ==


Indeed they do. See my post, number 6675, and the following one to see more context.

I can't see what difference the direction the door slides causing an issue.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think the issue is essentially trying to squeeze 26m worth of stuff into 24m. Clearly that has led to a few necessary differences, one being the doors sliding “outwards” on the 810s.

This is a positive thing, it means no "blank wall" seats by the door pockets.

I think it's more that the 26m units can't slide the doors the other way as the ends are tapered, but the non-tapered ends of the 810 allowed the doors to slide the other way into space that would be blank anyway - an improvement made possible due to the shorter body, not a compromise due to it.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Because when they cross at Kettering it almost always delays the express, particularly because the signalling changes from 4 aspect to 3 aspect at Wellingborough so they gave to slow as the signals are far apart and once passed a single yellow the next is red

The St Pancras - Corby is also an express (1Ynn). Crossing at Kettering clashes with a Sheffield, at Wellingborough with a Nottingham.
And I know a train with 3+2 seating and very likely blown double glazing and dirty windows & carpets doesn't look like an express.

To add to this, although the planning rules permit it, it has been proven that there is no slack in the margins in the planning rules if crossing at Kettering South (if timetabled correctly) E.g obviously if the Corby is late it will delay the train behind, but also if the Sheffield train is early it will be delayed because the timings take no account of the slow down required because you are running early. This delay is then immediately knocked onto the Nottingham behind because of the three aspect signalling.

It has also been proven that the adjustment allowance for the crossing move to the Down Slow at Kettering South is insufficient, and combine this with the existing adjustment gets put in the wrong place, you basically end up with a non compliant timetable, even if you look at the timings and it appears it is. All this then used to get very messy when the Up Nottingham was late, often the Corby would be held at Kettering South awaiting it to pass, with the Sheffield and Nottingham queuing behind.

Thankfully this is largely resolved now, the Weekday off peak was resolved in the December 2024 timetable (as part of this the dwell at Kettering in one of the Nottingham to London trains was increased to 2 minutes). Most of the Saturday has just been resolved in the timetable change this weekend. Hopefully in the coming years we will see the planning rules updated which will make crossing at Kettering South less of an option because it will have knock on effects further north due to the increased diverging headway value.

Interesting explanation of the operations considerations, thanks.

The conundrum of how EMR can provide a service from Luton, Bedford and Wellingborough to the North. Possibly just run slow line from Bedford and keep completely out of the way of EMR 'Inter City' trains, resulting in a later but more secure connection at Kettering but adding 30 minutes to transits Northwards.

When I said that I almost always made the connection at Kettering I know which coach to travel in to alight near to the footbridge, and I walk quickly over it. Less mobile passengers from the front of the train who of course also have to use the lifts are not always so lucky.

 

[QSK19]

I can't see what difference the direction the door slides causing an issue.

To be fair, I never said door slide direction was an issue - I said the issue was the shorter carriage as a whole necessitating some design modifications, some of which may work out to be beneficial.

To be honest, as long as the door operates properly, it could lift up like the rear doors of a Tesla Model X.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 May 2026 ==

This is a positive thing, it means no "blank wall" seats by the door pockets.

I think it's more that the 26m units can't slide the doors the other way as the ends are tapered, but the non-tapered ends of the 810 allowed the doors to slide the other way into space that would be blank anyway - an improvement made possible due to the shorter body, not a compromise due to it.

Yep, ditto as above, it’s a positive difference. I was merely highlighting that some elements have had to be changed due to the 26m/24m difference - this one has ended up being a beneficial one.

 

[Yew]

The conundrum of how EMR can provide a service from Luton, Bedford and Wellingborough to the North. Possibly just run slow line from Bedford and keep completely out of the way of EMR 'Inter City' trains, resulting in a later but more secure connection at Kettering but adding 30 minutes to transits Northwards.

When I said that I almost always made the connection at Kettering I know which coach to travel in to alight near to the footbridge, and I walk quickly over it. Less mobile passengers from the front of the train who of course also have to use the lifts are not always so lucky.

I feel that the answer is multiple stops, have one at Kettering, and one at, say, Luton, would give more options. It'd also be nice to have direct services to Luton Airport Parkway from the Midlands, especially now there is the DART.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yep, ditto as above, it’s a positive difference. I was merely highlighting that some elements have had to be changed due to the 26m/24m difference - this one has ended up being a beneficial one.

I doubt that had to be changed, I suspect it was changed deliberately as it was beneficial. I can't see any physical reason the door pockets couldn't have been on the saloon side on these, rather I think they made a positive choice to take advantage of the non-tapered body to avoid that.

 

[Spartacus]

Course it's not only the external doors giving issues.

 

[Merle Haggard]

/snip

Thankfully this is largely resolved now, the Weekday off peak was resolved in the December 2024 timetable (as part of this the dwell at Kettering in one of the Nottingham to London trains was increased to 2 minutes). Most of the Saturday has just been resolved in the timetable change this weekend. Hopefully in the coming years we will see the planning rules updated which will make crossing at Kettering South less of an option because it will have knock on effects further north due to the increased diverging headway value.

I overlooked making the following point in my previous response, which only applies to 222 class so will only apply for a while; on one orientation (I think DMS leading) if the driver of an Up train calling at Kettering f/l stops exactly at the stop board it is not possible to fit the access ramp to the appropriate leading coach doorway. This is because the doorway exactly aligns with a canopy support column which is too close to allow the ramp to be fitted. The station staff say that they try to overcome this problem by signalling to te train crew before the doors are released. If unsuccessful this can result in station overtime while the train moved forward slightly.


///


Returning to 810s; the doors opening towards the ends (on 810s) avoids a blank panel in the passenger area but it does result in a dead area between the door opening and the coach end. I've only looked in the First end of the composite - in that case, this area is used for cabinets labelled 'emergency equipment' (I think - from memory) - but are all the similar end spaces used usefully? If not, it does result in a waste of space to an extent. EMR Inter City trains are usually so crowded that perambulating down the train to check design details seems to be a bit anti-social, so I have avoided it.

 

[Phillipimo]

Returning to 810s; the doors opening towards the ends (on 810s) avoids a blank panel in the passenger area but it does result in a dead area between the door opening and the coach end. I've only looked in the First end of the composite - in that case, this area is used for cabinets labelled 'emergency equipment' (I think - from memory) - but are all the similar end spaces used usefully? If not, it does result in a waste of space to an extent. EMR Inter City trains are usually so crowded that perambulating down the train to check design details seems to be a bit anti-social, so I have avoided it.

In other carriages it is used for bike space, compact toilets and equipment cupboards so I wouldn't say it's wasted space.

 

[Merle Haggard]

In other carriages it is used for bike space, compact toilets and equipment cupboards so I wouldn't say it's wasted space.

Thanks, fair enough. There are obviously 8 such areas, 16 in total counting each side of the vestibule, and I did wonder whether it was possible to find uses for all of them, but it seems it is.

 

[Phillipimo]

Thanks, fair enough. There are obviously 8 such areas, 16 in total counting each side of the vestibule, and I did wonder whether it was possible to find uses for all of them, but it seems it is.

That's alright, there are walkthrough videos on YouTube so you can see without needing to disturb any passengers

 

[jthjth]

Had my first ride in one today. Was in coach E, first class. The air conditioning was terrible. Alternately boiled and frozen by an extremely strong airflow from the ceiling. Very unpleasant. Also the aircon was very noisy. I prefer the noise of the underfloor 222 engines to this. Ride was good though.

 

[Mikw]

810016 has failed now.

That's know as the "good one" as well.

 

[DannyMich2018]

810010-015 all out today and just checked RTT all still out now and running pretty much to time now so hopefully reliability is getting there. 019 also out earlier on either testing/training.
Any one know how multiple working testing is going on? Thanks for any help.

 

[Spartacus]

003 & 004 failed at Loughborough last night. They're still there this morning.

 

[Merle Haggard]

003 & 004 failed at Loughborough last night. They're still there this morning.

According to OTT Maps still there now (12.20). Seems like it might be a difficult to solve problem.

 

[liamf656]

According to OTT Maps still there now (12.20). Seems like it might be a difficult to solve problem.

I've heard that they will be moved tonight

 

[Merle Haggard]

I've heard that they will be moved tonight

Thanks.
Overnight suggests a wheel skate is involved perhaps.

 

[Spartacus]

Thanks.
Overnight suggests a wheel skate is involved perhaps.

No, just very low speed.

 

[Merle Haggard]

No, just very low speed.

Thanks.
Had a flashback to the days of the Cl 180.

 

[Gordonman]

Anyone know which unit(s) have worked 5Q58 - 5Q63 test runs from Merchants Park on Monday and Tuesday please?

Thanks

 

[Spartacus]

Thanks.
Had a flashback to the days of the Cl 180.

They just all seem to be having door issues today, 010 at Leicester, 012 at Chesterfield by all accounts, 011 at Leicester earlier, though the 222s have been bad too with a variety of faults.

 

[ptreanor]

It's quite ironic with all of these door issues, that the reason for pocket doors in the first place was that Hitachi stated they would be more reliable than plug socket doors which would have given a much more pleasing aesthetic.

You've taken the words right out of my mouth! The 8xx fleet of trains appear to be nothing more the high speed commuter stock. They certainly do not have the feel or the ambience of what I would class as an InterCity train in my experience.

 

[Nottingham59]

The 8xx fleet of trains appear to be nothing more the high speed commuter stock.

Which is what they should be. The longest journey is two hours, and their main job is carrying the daily tidal flow into and back out of London.

 

[720144]

Anyone know which unit(s) have worked 5Q58 - 5Q63 test runs from Merchants Park on Monday and Tuesday please?

Thanks

Possibly 810020 which is next due to be delivered to Etches next week.

 

[800001]

Possibly 810020 which is next due to be delivered to Etches next week.

810022 is out tonight from Merchant Park on overnight testing.

 

[alm37]

810022 is out tonight from Merchant Park on overnight testing.

Yes, passed south through York at 2242.