First unit in full GBR livery

[mmh]

What was the

The stupidity is the DfT are getting repair and overhauls of old units approved, even if it is worst value for money than lease costs of low maintenance new units.

Quite why the Treasury is getting involved, unless they are guaranteeing leases to private sector companies isn't clear, because monthly lease payments are operational, not a capital expense or investment.

Shouldn't really make any difference if pay £X to Leaseco vs £X to LeaseCo2 for a different newer unit

Absolutely nothing is going to happen. Rolling stock isn't being nationalised. All that's happening is Network Rail (already nationalised) and passenger operating companies (already effectively nationalised) will be announced to be, umm, nationalised

 

[Russel]

I don’t think the Treasury has yet signed off any money for ordering new trains.

And whether they are in full public ownership or not doesn’t matter - the DfT (& therefore the Treasury) still have to sign off any order.

Again, another example of not thinking of the long term, the longer it takes to approve, the higher the cost will be.

 

[vuzzeho]

Absolutely nothing is going to happen. Rolling stock isn't being nationalised. All that's happening is Network Rail (already nationalised) and passenger operating companies (already effectively nationalised) will be announced to be, umm, nationalised

This conversation is getting a bit off topic, but the change GBR will bring is taking the TOCs in house (so actually nationalising them, not just 'effectively' - which is arguable in itself) and then more of a change in the structure of the industry, including what is likely to be more central planning alongside vertical integration across track and train (to use a phrase gov't loves). The government is likely holding off on announcing a new order until the Bill is passed, or they get the chance to do a big publicity order to replace diesel/old stock across GWR, Northern, SWR, EMR, and Southeastern. Of course, I might be wrong and they do it on a random Tuesday or something, but if I had the gift of prophecy I'd use it for bigger things than predicting train orders.

Back on topic, being realistic I do agree that the first train to be in GBR livery will likely be a formerly LNER Azuma. It could also be on a SWR 701, possibly, or any GA/C2C stock. I am still very surprised that there hasn't been anything out to DFTO operators or just the wider industry (XC ahem) to tell them to cool off on the repaints.

 

[Bletchleyite]

When GBR comes into existence I hope if they decide to change any liveries it will be something a bit more tastefull that the DfTs design

I don't have an issue with the colours but the form of it is awful. Hopefully they'll modify it first. A good version was posted here which was roughly the TPE livery but in those colours, I thought that did work well.

 

[43096]

I am still very surprised that there hasn't been anything out to DFTO operators or just the wider industry (XC ahem) to tell them to cool off on the repaints.

They can't "cool off on the repaints" as they are part of the maintenance regime. Paint is primarily there to protect the bodyshell - so vehicles have to be repainted in line with the ROSCO's maintenance periodicities.

 

[Zomboid]

I don't have an issue with the colours but the form of it is awful. Hopefully they'll modify it first. A good version was posted here which was roughly the TPE livery but in those colours, I thought that did work well.

If the mock up that was released is seriously the design, I hope nothing ever gets painted in it.

There's elements which are ok, but overall it's dreadful. But indeed the chances are it'll be an LNER unit - though I wouldn't be shocked if they use the roll out of the first 897 as the opportunity to do a grand unveiling of the colour scheme (I say that not knowing the timescales of either GBR or the 897s)

 

[OneOfThe48]

GTR are being nationalised in two weeks and I think (from memory) once they get brought in to the DFTO it will mean 50%+ of all journeys are made on DFTO trains, so maybe they will take the opportunity and do something special for GTR to mark the occasion?

Who fancies a red, white and blue Class 387?

 

[Bletchleyite]

GTR are being nationalised in two weeks and I think (from memory) once they get brought in to the DFTO it will mean 50%+ of all journeys are made on DFTO trains, so maybe they will take the opportunity and do something special for GTR to mark the occasion?

Who fancies a red, white and blue Class 387?

Do a 700. I've never known such a boring livery as that. Dealer white with blue doors and a logo a 5 year old could have done in MS Paint.

 

[Russel]

Do a 700. I've never known such a boring livery as that. Dealer white with blue doors and a logo a 5 year old could have done in MS Paint.

Do we really want to see 12 coaches of the current proposed GBR livery?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do we really want to see 12 coaches of the current proposed GBR livery?

No, but if they sort out the form of it so it doesn't look so rubbish?

 

[Russel]

No, but if they sort out the form of it so it doesn't look so rubbish?

Oh agreed, that said though, the proposed GBR dazzle livery may deter some of South London's graffiti "artists", after all, it managed to protect ships during the first world war!

 

[OneOfThe48]

Do a 700. I've never known such a boring livery as that. Dealer white with blue doors and a logo a 5 year old could have done in MS Paint.

A 4 carriage Southern train would be a lot less expensive to do than a 8/12 carriage Thameslink train so I think that’d be a big draw

We’ll see!

 

[Mikey C]

Do a 700. I've never known such a boring livery as that. Dealer white with blue doors and a logo a 5 year old could have done in MS Paint.

And the grey sections which make them look permanently dirty!

 

[vuzzeho]

Do a 700. I've never known such a boring livery as that. Dealer white with blue doors and a logo a 5 year old could have done in MS Paint.

Honestly, they should just do all GN and Thameslink trains. For a company which nearly exclusively operates all white trains, they sure don't clean them!

 

[britishrail375]

A 4 carriage Southern train would be a lot less expensive to do than a 8/12 carriage Thameslink train so I think that’d be a big draw

We’ll see!

If we want to be even cheaper, there's the 3 car 377s too!

 

[physics34]

GTR are being nationalised in two weeks and I think (from memory) once they get brought in to the DFTO it will mean 50%+ of all journeys are made on DFTO trains, so maybe they will take the opportunity and do something special for GTR to mark the occasion?

Who fancies a red, white and blue Class 387?

You may be more accurate than you realise

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

You may be more accurate than you realise

Look at you dropping crumbs

 

[jon0844]

GTR are being nationalised in two weeks and I think (from memory) once they get brought in to the DFTO it will mean 50%+ of all journeys are made on DFTO trains, so maybe they will take the opportunity and do something special for GTR to mark the occasion?

Who fancies a red, white and blue Class 387?

The only thing that will be changing at first is the GTR logo and that's really only for internal use so we're not going to see any significant changes at all to the trains. Perhaps they'll add the 'GB Rail coming soon' vinyls to a couple of units, but I think that was pretty pointless when done elsewhere.

 

[35B]

The stupidity is the DfT are getting repair and overhauls of old units approved, even if it is worst value for money than lease costs of low maintenance new units.

Quite why the Treasury is getting involved, unless they are guaranteeing leases to private sector companies isn't clear, because monthly lease payments are operational, not a capital expense or investment.

Shouldn't really make any difference if pay £X to Leaseco vs £X to LeaseCo2 for a different newer unit

It matters when that payment is made, and it matters what the commitment is. In the magical world of HMT accounting, if the service is provided by a third party (e.g. a train hired from a ROSCO), and there's no contract, then there's no liability. That means that avoiding decisions "saves money" because the liabilities don't need to go into the government's books - even though the reality is different. See HS2 for numerous examples of this nonsense.

 

[OneOfThe48]

GTR are being nationalised in two weeks and I think (from memory) once they get brought in to the DFTO it will mean 50%+ of all journeys are made on DFTO trains, so maybe they will take the opportunity and do something special for GTR to mark the occasion?

Who fancies a red, white and blue Class 387?

https://x.com/Off_The_RailsUK/status/2056703124606169377

Like i suggested - we have ourselves a red, white and blue Class 387

Video on Twitter is of 387/172 coming out of the shed at Lovers Walk

 

[Leyland Bus]

But is it paint or vinyl wrap?

 

[Iskra]

It looks awful, in-your-face national flag colours should be reserved for prestige trains not mundane units.

The yellow stripe is the best bit.

 

[anthony263]

Way over the top. Ive seen far better designs come up with by member sof this forum and others in my 6yr daughter could probably design a better livery with some crayons

 

[Zomboid]

It looks awful, in-your-face national flag colours should be reserved for prestige trains not mundane units.

The yellow stripe is the best bit.

They should be reserved for flags...

The union flag really doesn't lend itself to that kind of application. Though to be fair, the ScotRail design is a pretty good use of the flag. Probably because it's a much simpler design.

 

[jon0844]

https://x.com/Off_The_RailsUK/status/2056703124606169377

Like i suggested - we have ourselves a red, white and blue Class 387

Video on Twitter is of 387/172 coming out of the shed at Lovers Walk

Horrible. I really hope it's like the other TOCs that changed hands and is one token train for a press event. They really should have found a way to use the pattern effectively at the ends of the train but not try in the middle coaches. It looks totally wrong.

 

[vuzzeho]

https://x.com/Off_The_RailsUK/status/2056703124606169377

Like i suggested - we have ourselves a red, white and blue Class 387

Video on Twitter is of 387/172 coming out of the shed at Lovers Walk

Okay, hear me out...

 

[Transilien]

Do a 700. I've never known such a boring livery as that. Dealer white with blue doors and a logo a 5 year old could have done in MS Paint.

I think a five year old would be a little more creative!
I really home some BR units get painted in the GBR livery just because it would be interesting.

 

[35B]

Horrible. I really hope it's like the other TOCs that changed hands and is one token train for a press event. They really should have found a way to use the pattern effectively at the ends of the train but not try in the middle coaches. It looks totally wrong.

I think you may be hoping.

 

[Transilien]

https://x.com/Off_The_RailsUK/status/2056703124606169377

Now this looks like a five year olds effort!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Being pedantic, as Scotrail and TfW will continue to exist, it should really be English Rail.

I would actually be quite supportive of the idea of keeping the name Network Rail for the infrastructure and using "Rail England" for English controlled passenger operationes, yes (though with "InterCity" taking bigger prominence on those service groups). Including those going into Wales and Scotland, just as we wouldn't be telling TfW they can't use their brand to operate to Manchester Airport and Birmingham Intl, nor would we be telling ScotRail they have to stop and change the livery before pulling into Carlisle.

Obviously structurally Rail England and Network Rail would still be the same organisation, but it would be a bit more appropriate in terms of relating to Scotland and Wales.

Using LNER's livery would be a tasteful analogy for St George's flag.