First unit in full GBR livery

[Bringback309s]

So! Your guesses please. I reckon we'll see an LNER azuma released in GBR livery pretty soon. Here are the others, what do you think?
First train to appear in GBR livery - I'll guess LNER azuma
First non Intercity multiple unit - I'll guess SE 375, 377 or 707
LNER - as above
SE - as above
GA - 720 or 755
C2C - 357
Nothern - mmm maybe a 331 but possibly a 170
TPE - 185
SWR - 444
Then the rest as they slowly move over. I don't think "new" units will necessarily get new liveries first, more likely ones that cover most routes. Discuss!

 

[bluenoxid]

Once flagship units are done (no pun intended), I expect that refurbishments and paint guarantees will drive repainting schedules. Repainting a train whilst it is on a works site with a paint shop is sensible. If a train has recently been refreshed and the paint scheme has a guarantee, why jeopardise that?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

If a train has recently been refreshed and the paint scheme has a guarantee, why jeopardise that?

I reckon these particular classes will get a vinyl wrap of the GBR livery instead.

 

[Mikey C]

Will the 897s be the first new trains to emerge in GBR livery?

 

[PLY2AYS]

I don't think "new" units will necessarily get new liveries first, more likely ones that cover most routes. Discuss!

Given GBR’s ambition to be a new, modern prospect, I should imagine that the newest units will be liveried first.
Especially with that design… however, one would hope it is modified slightly as time progresses.

 

[Snow1964]

If the SE 376s are about to be refurbished, would take a punt on one of those for initial train in livery

 

[norbitonflyer]

I happened to travel on NSE liveried 465908 on Wednesday evening - still looking very smart. Several of the people with me thought it was the new GBR livery.

Maybe it should be.

 

[frankmoh]

I happened to travel on NSE liveried 465908 on Wednesday evening - still looking very smart. Several of the people with me thought it was the new GBR livery.

Maybe it should be.

GBR seems keen on a red, white and blue livery... well they already came up with it 40 years ago!

 

[Pete_uk]

When GBR comes into existence I hope if they decide to change any liveries it will be something a bit more tastefull that the DfTs design

 

[Class450/4DES]

Has there been any news lately on what type of train is going to be repainted knowing its now Spring?

 

[PLY2AYS]

Has there been any news lately on what type of train is going to be repainted knowing its now Spring?

Speculatively speaking, I’d imagine it won’t be until GBR is up and running! So might be a while ‘til we hear or read anything; more than happy to be corrected of course!!

 

[Technologist]

When GBR comes into existence I hope if they decide to change any liveries it will be something a bit more tastefull that the DfTs design

One would hope that they are not totally unaware of public reaction to it, as well as professional reaction to it.

The red white and blue theme is fine, the issue is that it doesn't work along a long thin object like a train. The nose design is ok (not good), the intermediate coaches is where it falls down.

 

[Class450/4DES]

Speculatively speaking, I’d imagine it won’t be until GBR is up and running! So might be a while ‘til we hear or read anything; more than happy to be corrected of course!!

Alright, thanks!

 

[Helvellyn]

LNER's Class 897s would surely be a contender to be first from new, even if delivered in an unbranded base livery.

 

[AzureOtsu]

I was speaking with Google gemini and it was convinced that the SWR Class 159's (which are currently under refurbishment) have an 80% chance of emerging with gbr branding, seems a bit of a long shot to me but imagine a BR era unit being the first to carry the GBR livery!

 

[ollyexe2808]

Well it's interesting seeing that when they released the images of the livery it was accompanied by a press release saying it would be appearing on trains from spring... So either there is definitely something in the pipeline or the local elections and impending prorogation of parliament may delay things... After all, GBR doesn't exist as a fully legal entity yet....even with the shadow GBR, DFTO and Network Rail teams starting to combine in some areas

If it is in the pipeline, I can imagine it will be one of the DFTO brands that already has some prestige or positive image - so a Greater Anglia 745/755 or an LNER Azuma.

I'd love it to be a class 159 refurb but something tells me SWR have not reached the desired "GBR satisfaction" criteria that is allegedly the threshold for carrying the GBR name...

 

[swrcommguard]

I was speaking with Google gemini and it was convinced that the SWR Class 159's (which are currently under refurbishment) have an 80% chance of emerging with gbr branding, seems a bit of a long shot to me but imagine a BR era unit being the first to carry the GBR livery!

Apparently the whole C6 refresh programme has been paused due to supplier issues.

I have also heard that when they gutted the first unit, the corrosion found was much worse than expected.

This is all depot rumour, though, I haven't seen anything in writing.

 

[Snow1964]

Apparently the whole C6 refresh programme has been paused due to supplier issues.

I have also heard that when they gutted the first unit, the corrosion found was much worse than expected.

This is all depot rumour, though, I haven't seen anything in writing.

If there is serious corrosion, and parts supply problems then that creates a big dilemma.
Do they throw big money at units that are 34-37 years old, knowing they have limited (few years) life remaining, or just move quickly to signing off replacements because it is better value for money.

As units tend to be rented/leased, doesn't affect any capital spending, so it's operational spending either way.

 

[JonathanH]

Do they throw big money at units that are 34-37 years old, knowing they have limited (few years) life remaining, or just move quickly to signing off replacements because it is better value for money.

They throw money at the existing units, as their potential replacements don't yet exist 'off the shelf'. SWT 158/159 are not at the top of the list for replacement.

Are GBR going to paint the older trains in a new scheme, or just do the newer one that they want to be associated with?

 

[popeter45]

the GBR livery shown off so far have been on a 80X so i suspect they could choose to launch the Livery on a 800/802 when they take over GWR in December

 

[43096]

If there is serious corrosion, and parts supply problems then that creates a big dilemma.
Do they throw big money at units that are 34-37 years old, knowing they have limited (few years) life remaining, or just move quickly to signing off replacements because it is better value for money.

As units tend to be rented/leased, doesn't affect any capital spending, so it's operational spending either way.

They have no choice - they have to overhaul the existing trains.

 

[westcoaster]

Maybe some will have vinyls added first, maybe one of each class or operating companies.
Wonder how long unit like a 700 will look.

 

[Helvellyn]

Given Northern and GWR have had DMU replacement plans running for several years with no orders yet placed (as has Southeastern with the 465 replacement) then Porterbrook/SWR will have no choice but to continue with the C6 overhauls because there is no way they could just stop these and suddenly magic up an order for replacement units.

If the C6 overhauls have been paused because the corrosion on the first unit is so bad it might be because the scope/depth of work required will need a contract renegotiation, and that in turn will need DfT/DFTO sign-off.

 

[Crithylum]

My guess is that an Azuma will be first.

Wonder how long unit like a 700 will look.

I reckon quite bad. Especially with the recessed doors.

 

[Russel]

If there is serious corrosion, and parts supply problems then that creates a big dilemma.
Do they throw big money at units that are 34-37 years old, knowing they have limited (few years) life remaining, or just move quickly to signing off replacements because it is better value for money.

As units tend to be rented/leased, doesn't affect any capital spending, so it's operational spending either way.

Nothing is thought about on a long term basis, so we all know what will happen.

 

[Snow1964]

Nothing is thought about on a long term basis, so we all know what will happen.

Yes sadly, at least the franchise operators replaced life expired stock under long term plans, unlike the last 6 years under DfT managed contracts or nationalised railway.

Remind me why nationalised or controlled railway is allegedly better. All they have ordered in 6 years is 10 trains for LNER and 10 for Elizabeth line. Not even ordering (yet) replacements for trains that are 34-41 years old.

 

[Russel]

Yes sadly, at least the franchise operators replaced life expired stock under long term plans, unlike the last 6 years under DfT managed contracts or nationalised railway.

Remind me why nationalised or controlled railway is allegedly better. All they have ordered in 6 years is 10 trains for LNER and 10 for Elizabeth line. Not even ordering (yet) replacements for trains that are 34-41 years old.

Indeed.

Let's not forget that Northern and GWR have been planning to order new stock to replace Sprinters for what feels like years at this point with still no order placed and Northern spending a fortune basically rebuilding Sprinters from the chassis up because they are that corroded.

I really hate the UK's way of doing things at times.

 

[Helvellyn]

Why DFTO as the "owning group" can't crack on to order DMUs for Northern and EMUs for Southeastern I just don't get. They could be saying to ROSCOs we want 30-year leases with flexibility to move between operators after a fixed point (based on any maintenance deal). I know GWR and Chiltern aren't DFTO owned yet but options for them could be negotiated to be signed when they come into public ownership.

 

[Clarence Yard]

I don’t think the Treasury has yet signed off any money for ordering new trains.

And whether they are in full public ownership or not doesn’t matter - the DfT (& therefore the Treasury) still have to sign off any order.

 

[Snow1964]

I don’t think the Treasury has yet signed off any money for ordering new trains.

And whether they are in full public ownership or not doesn’t matter - the DfT (& therefore the Treasury) still have to sign off any order.

The stupidity is the DfT are getting repair and overhauls of old units approved, even if it is worst value for money than lease costs of low maintenance new units.

Quite why the Treasury is getting involved, unless they are guaranteeing leases to private sector companies isn't clear, because monthly lease payments are operational, not a capital expense or investment.

Shouldn't really make any difference if pay £X to Leaseco vs £X to LeaseCo2 for a different newer unit