Nothing planned yet. Another month before the next strikes though - 19th and 21st May - so plenty time.
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RMT strikes re: 4 day week
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weeklycommuter
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Referencing the following two news reports, the problem for the RMT is that they only represent around half of London Underground drivers and ASLEF, which represents the other half of London Underground drivers, is happy with the proposals that the RMT are objecting to and is not taking industrial action.
I do not see how the RMT will persuade either TfL or anyone else to agree with the RMT position when the union that represents the other half of London Underground drivers has made clear that they are happy with the proposals and that they disagree with the RMT position.
TfL may conclude that there is no point in any further negotiations with the RMT on this issue.
Strikes on the London Underground are also less effective than they were in the past due to the Elizabeth Line and the London Overground.
Tube strikes were the least effective for years - here are five reasons why
TfL says a normal service ran on more than half of scheduled trains despite the walkoutswww.standard.co.uk
London tube drivers to strike across 12 days in spring, says RMT
Union opposed to London Underground pushing ahead with four-day week planwww.theguardian.com
Whilst one union worked in the background to push this deal through, it's not true that ASLEF represent the position of the majority of all train operators across both unions.
As you can see from the results, the majority (57.9%) of train operators do not want this deal in its current form.
(Although the votes for each union seem to indicate that ASLEF has the majority or drivers overall, 706 eligible drivers didn't vote, and it is unknown to which union those drivers belong.)
You cant see it, but it's happened before. In the previous pay negotiation (prior to the current 3 year deal), ASLEF recommended to their members to accept the deal as it was offered - which they did. RMT sought a better deal and managed to get a better deal to the tune of £30m! Of course this caused much ridicule towards the ASLEF functional reps. Reading between the lines, ASLEF needed a win after that bloody-nose, and this 'groundbreaking' deal emerged.
weeklycommuter
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Clearly there are differences of view among Tube drivers. However, the press report states around 60% of Tube drivers reported for work.
How would the press know?
Nearly 60% voted for strike action, but somehow 60% turned up for work? Right.
Edit: I just had a look at the Daily Network Performance Report for the evening of the Thursday strike, 18.9% of Service Operated. Unfortunately I can't share the reports here, but if someone wished to do an FOI for the 4 days of strike action, they make interesting reading.
Could TfL have given staffing figures based on an 0000hrs to 0000hrs figure (whereby nearly 100% of drivers turn up from 0430hrs to 1200hrs, but then very few actually broke the strike between 1200hrs and midnight)? If they can only run 18.9% of the evening service with 60% of drivers then they have bigger problems than strike action.
Nearly 60% voted for strike action, but somehow 60% turned up for work? Right.
Edit: I just had a look at the Daily Network Performance Report for the evening of the Thursday strike, 18.9% of Service Operated. Unfortunately I can't share the reports here, but if someone wished to do an FOI for the 4 days of strike action, they make interesting reading.
Could TfL have given staffing figures based on an 0000hrs to 0000hrs figure (whereby nearly 100% of drivers turn up from 0430hrs to 1200hrs, but then very few actually broke the strike between 1200hrs and midnight)? If they can only run 18.9% of the evening service with 60% of drivers then they have bigger problems than strike action.
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starlight73
Member
From Mawkie's post #183, the total number of RMT and ASLEF votes is:
1586 + 1345 = 2931
The proportion of those votes that are ASLEF are:
1586/2931 = 54.1% (to 3 significant figures)
So the figure of "around 60%" in post #182 is not much higher than the ASLEF proportion of the vote. (Bearing in mind there's probably a lot of caveats like drivers off sick/on leave, is the "around 60%" a percentage of all drivers, or just those who were booked to work that day, etc.)
1586 + 1345 = 2931
The proportion of those votes that are ASLEF are:
1586/2931 = 54.1% (to 3 significant figures)
So the figure of "around 60%" in post #182 is not much higher than the ASLEF proportion of the vote. (Bearing in mind there's probably a lot of caveats like drivers off sick/on leave, is the "around 60%" a percentage of all drivers, or just those who were booked to work that day, etc.)
The number of eligible drivers who did not vote means that though the majority (57.9%) of those who voted did not want the deal, only a minority (46.7%) of eligible drivers voted against it.
What's your point here? Are you making an argument for compulsory voting?
Dstock7080
Established Member
The figures also take no account of the non-Union members who had no vote, of which there are now many on LU trainstaff
The point seems fairly clear that as the position of those drivers who didn't vote isn't known, you can't claim a majority of drivers are against the change purely based on those who did vote.
But you can make the assumption that if you really care about something, you’re more likely to be motivated to vote. The base case is that the majority of those voting aren’t passionately against the deal.
Doubtful. Leave a few extra minutes just in case.
Thanks.
What do you mean by 12pm? It’s either midday, in which case you should be alright but it’ll be only the H&C (but you may have to go to Aldgate East - during the last strike the Met and Circle were suspended some H&C trains were being diverted to Aldgate although at other times of the day they were running through to Barking). But if you mean midnight, then no, I would not expect to get a train as the network tended to shut down earlier than this.
weeklycommuter
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12pm is midday. Midnight is 12am. Best to use the 24 hour clock as it is clearer.
12pm midday. When you say only the H&C, does that mean the Met won't be running on the morning of 19th?
To compare it to last time, on day 1 of each strike (ie. the Tuesday and the Thursday) the Met line didn’t run Baker Street from approx 1115 until about 1345 the following day.
In the case of the Circle it was suspended from approx 1000 until 1515 the following day, resuming slightly earlier on the second time round.
The H&C was a bit more complicated, at various times of the day it ran between Aldgate and Hammersmith and then at other times it ran up towards Barking.
12am and 12pm are incorrect and shouldn't be used. AM means ante meridiem (before midday/noon) and PM stands for post meridiem (after midday/noon). 12 midday is neither before or after midday - it is exactly midday. The correct terminology is therefore 12 noon and 12 midnight.
I agree that using the 24-hour clock is best although 00:00 or 24:00 can cause confusion.... 23:59 and 00:01 are better so that the actual day and time is not in dispute.
Royston Vasey
Established Member
I have a similar plan to use the H&C at about 11am from Kings Cross to Paddington on 19th May and was wondering how early things would wind down.
I had to find my way from Marylebone to Liverpool St on 22nd April in mid afternoon and the service was sparse on most lines despite the strike having officially ended but I'd expect restarting the service to be far more gradual than stopping it?
For me there's always the TL/EL option changing at Farringdon.
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starlight73
Member
On 21 April (1st day of strike):
The H&C line was marked as running a “good service” until about 14:00. I checked truetubestatus.com and it was categorised as a good service
However the circle and metropolitan lines were not running on the shared section - that would make roughly a train every 10 minutes service I guess. See post #198
By 1430, the H&C was marked as a reduced service, running every 20 minutes. It was then past suspended due to a points failure (presumably those points agree with the RMT
)
The H&C line was marked as running a “good service” until about 14:00. I checked truetubestatus.com and it was categorised as a good service
However the circle and metropolitan lines were not running on the shared section - that would make roughly a train every 10 minutes service I guess. See post #198
By 1430, the H&C was marked as a reduced service, running every 20 minutes. It was then past suspended due to a points failure (presumably those points agree with the RMT
)Are any more talks scheduled or are these pretty set on happening?
As I understand things the company haven't agreed to any further talks. So as of now, the strikes remain on.
Can anyone hazard a guess about the status of the District line between Embankment and Sloane Square during the day (8 am to about 3pm) of Wednesday 20th May?
starlight73
Member
Here are district line frequencies from the start of the April strike. TfL put on the status updates on Tuesday afternoon. But they then removed them from the status info after a couple of hours… They aren’t a guarantee about the upcoming strike.
There was no circle line service during the strike.
During the strike, True Tube status said that the district line had a 80%-130% longer wait for trains on average.
I’m just an outsider and there may be people with better information on here!
- Upminster to Olympia - every 10 min (no circle line)
- Ealing Broadway to High Street Kensington - every 15 min (sometimes 20 min)
- Richmond to High Street Kensington - every 10 min
- Wimbledon to Edgware Road - not listed but it looked like that on intertube, no idea of the frequency
There was no circle line service during the strike.
During the strike, True Tube status said that the district line had a 80%-130% longer wait for trains on average.
I’m just an outsider and there may be people with better information on here!
Just an update: RMT have been invited tomorrow for 2 hours of talks, which is curious after a month of not very much.
I am an old cynic, but I suspect it will be "Suspend the strikes and we'll have a look at what we can change", but I hope I'm wrong.
(Also gives TfL a chance to get on TV to tell everyone they've tried.)
I am an old cynic, but I suspect it will be "Suspend the strikes and we'll have a look at what we can change", but I hope I'm wrong.
(Also gives TfL a chance to get on TV to tell everyone they've tried.)
I disagree. I hope you're right.
Well, LU had their chance when the RMT suspended the strikes for 1 month previously and then did nothing except tell drivers (in a 12 page letter) "the model doesn't work" with any of the changes RMT suggested.
I hope LU have got something meaningful to offer today - and strikes can be called off.
Dstock7080
Established Member
They did.
I understand an announcement maybe made within 24hrs