Why the delay in opening tube doors?

[Squaddie]

This is something that has puzzled (and irritated) me for a long time, and I was reminded of it again this afternoon.

Occasionally, and especially on the Northern Line, there will be a significant delay between the train coming to a complete halt and the driver opening the doors. Today at Bank station there was a delay of at least 30 seconds before the driver opened the doors - so long, in fact, that passengers were getting very annoyed and vociferous, and trying to physically force the doors open.

Why do drivers do this? Are they simply being bloody-minded because they know they can, or is there some technical reason why they can't open the doors more quickly?

 

[northwichcat]

On the Paris Metro they are released when the train has slowed down to something like 5mph, so people have already alighted before the train has stopped.

 

[Metroman62]

Often there is a delay as the train needs to stop in a pre defined area for the right side door assist system to allow the doors to be opened. There is a fixed mark the train has to stop. If it has not stopped in the right place, the doors cannot be opened by default. I know on the new S stock, the margin for error in stopping is much smaller than the A stock, which has caused problems in getting the doors open. It may be the case that the driver has to over ride the safety system to allow him to open the doors, which mat cause. Sometimes you notice the train move forward slightly and then the doors open, I assume this is if it stopped short. If it stopped past the mark, it cannot go backwards.

 

[fIIsion]

The Northen line like most other lines use CSDE (correct side door enable).
CSDE is basically a radio link between the track and the train which enables the driver to safely open the doors on the correct side of the platform.
However the train needs to be in the correct position for this to work and sometimes the train slightly overuns or stops short, whether manually driven or in ATO operation.
An emergency door procedure then has to be carried out which means having to cut out some switches and checking the platform directly; this causes a delay in opening the doors.

It has been my general observation, particularly when there are many people on the platform; to crowd the doors as soon as the train stops; thus preventing their fellow passengers from getting off.
I have on occassion delayed opening the doors to tell passengers to back off and allow room for those wishing to alight.

 

[Mojo]

The Train Operator may have forgotten to release the doors, there may be a reason he wants to hold people on the train, the train may not be stopped in the correct position, he may have needed to override safety systems, etc. A number of reasons.

In all my travelling on the Underground it's never happened to me once; it's far from a regular occurrence. But I have seen once a T/Op forget to release the doors and also read a log where a T/Op failed to open doors at all at a station! Also know of an instance where someone was on the platform the T/Op didn't want to get on, and someone on the train he didn't want to get off!

 

[tom1649]

On the old 1959 stock on the Northern Line the doors would often open just as the train was coming to a halt. Of course these were still operated with guards right until the end in January 2000.

 

[GodAtum]

I'm sure on some lines I've been on the tube doors open slightly before the train has fully stopped.

 

[jon0844]

I'll go with the stopping in the right place reason too, as I've been on a Northern Line train a few times where it has stopped short (I can see from what's in front of me when I'm by the doors - yes I travel that often and in the same carriage!).

Suffice to say, people wonder why the doors won't open; some even trying to press the buttons but I know it's still going to move forward - which it will. It can take a while though, so I am not sure what the driver is doing. Sometimes it can be 10-15 seconds before the train slowly crawls forward and the doors release.

 

[Eagle]

I'm guessing it's a bit more complicated on the Northern line with the short platforms at Charing Cross meaning that only the front door of car 8 is opened.

Although the thing is, I was in car 8 of a Northern line train recently and I noticed the rear doors were actually clear of the end of platform barriers at CHX, meaning that people could have safely alighted from any door. Is that normal?

 

[Mojo]

I'm guessing it's a bit more complicated on the Northern line with the short platforms at Charing Cross meaning that only the front door of car 8 is opened.

Although the thing is, I was in car 8 of a Northern line train recently and I noticed the rear doors were actually clear of the end of platform barriers at CHX, meaning that people could have safely alighted from any door. Is that normal?

Northern line trains only have 6 coaches. And it is only one door in the last/first coach (last coach Southbound, first coach Northbound at Charing +) that does not open at all the stations this applies at, not all the doors but one.

In answer to your question, yes it is normal, but the close proximity means it is not possible to open the doors.

 

[Eagle]

And it is only one door in the last/first coach (last coach Southbound, first coach Northbound at Charing +) that does not open at all the stations this applies at, not all the doors but one.

Well, when I was on it, it was definitely only one door of four that opened...

 

[Mojo]

Well, when I was on it, it was definitely only one door of four that opened...

There are only three sets of customer doors in the DM, and it is only the rear set that do not open.

 

[Eagle]

Gah. My memory really isn't what it used to be. :roll:

 

[Peter Mugridge]

A couple of years ago I was on a northbound Northern Line service at Charing Cross and it stopped slightly short with the result that all the doors in the front carriage opened; can I assume from this that there is some kind of position measuring transponder that triggers the non-opening of the forward set of doors in that carriage?

 

[Daniel]

A couple of years ago I was on a northbound Northern Line service at Charing Cross and it stopped slightly short with the result that all the doors in the front carriage opened; can I assume from this that there is some kind of position measuring transponder that triggers the non-opening of the forward set of doors in that carriage?

Not quite so sophisticated. If the train stops short and is outside of the CSDE loop then the driver over-rides the safety system and manually opens the doors - (this is what causes the delay, by the way). When the system is over-ridden, the train doesn't know where it is, so looses the automatic cut-in/cut-out of the end doors.

 

[rmt-driver]

All passenger rolling stock now have CSDE to prevent the wrong side doors been opened, or even doors beng opened anywhere other than on a platform.

As long as the train is going 7mph or less and is in the CSDE platform area, the doors can be released. Hence the doors sometimes open before the train has come to a complete stand. This is a normal thing and cuts down on dwell time getting people off / on the train as quickly as possible.

 

[exile]

After a couple of visits to Paris I got the timing right so I could almost hit the ground running.....

 

[T163R]

On the Paris Metro they are released when the train has slowed down to something like 5mph, so people have already alighted before the train has stopped.

After a couple of visits to Paris I got the timing right so I could almost hit the ground running.....

Well it depends on the driver !
If the driver on a Paris Metro wants to wait for 30 seconds before unlocking or releasing the doors, he will !

 

[AlterEgo]

After a couple of visits to Paris I got the timing right so I could almost hit the ground running.....

Yeah, I know what you mean! Having been for the first time last weekend it was great fun flipping the handle as soon as you heard the "pish" of the door release, then making off up the stairs before everyone else!

 

[150222]

While we are on about the paris metro just yesterday i noticed all stations on line 14 all have screen doors. Why? Also i noticed that some drivers of the older stock (mainly line 5/6) drive with the drivers door/s open. Is this allowed?

 

[MCR247]

Linie 14 is ATO IIRC., like the JLE

In Berlin the doors also open before the train has stopped, it is a great idea as we are obsessed with minimum dwell times on LU

 

[150222]

Yes im aware line 14 is driverless. Are the doors in case the train opens the door in the wrong place.

 

[trentside]

Yes im aware line 14 is driverless. Are the doors in case the train opens the door in the wrong place.

I'm not sure about Paris, but on the JLE the train must stop precisely in order for the PEDs (Platform Edge Doors) to engage. Their main function there is actually air management, reducing the 'piston effect' (the wind you get before a train arrives). They also have the benefit of stopping people and other obstructions getting on the track.

I imagine that in Paris, the main concern with driverless trains is preventing obstructions and/or people getting onto the track.

 

[T163R]

While we are on about the paris metro just yesterday i noticed all stations on line 14 all have screen doors. Why? Also i noticed that some drivers of the older stock (mainly line 5/6) drive with the drivers door/s open. Is this allowed?

There are screen doors to prevent people falling on the tracks.

Yes, driving with the driver door open is allowed, why shouldn't it be ?

All Paris Metro lines are equipped with ATO, except line 7 bis. The ATO always stop at the same place, so in the stations with screen doors (line 1, line 13 & 14), the train doors are always placed in front of the platform doors.
For lines where drivers are present and can drive (must for a certain number of hours a day) like line 13, I suppose drivers have some sort of marker to show him where to stop precisely.

 

[150222]

Didn't say the door open shouldn't be allowed but it's not something that would be allowed in britain is it?

 

[MCR247]

you see guys in UPS vans driving with their doors open..

 

[150222]

I'm talking about the railway but thanks for your in-put.

 

[rmt-driver]

London Underground drivers regularly drive with the car door(s) open..
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
In France once when approaching Gare du something, I saw a intercity (loco hauled) train on adjacent tracks, the driver had both cab doors open

 

[Dstock7080]

On the District we are encouraged to keep the drivers-side door closed while driving. The offside cab door can be left open, with a single occupant, and is not interlocked to train movement.

 

[tom1649]

On the Central Line it is only possible to have the cab door open when the train is being driven in coded manual rather than ATO.