Reserved seat in non platformed carriage

[norbitonflyer]

You have Hayle and Menheniot (along with Platform 3 at Par) as well in Cornwall

Also, Saltash in the UP direction towards Plymouth is only Front 2

S Germans, Lostwithiel,

Possibly why we didn't call at those stations

I recall in HST days catching a London service from Hayle, but the issue didn't arise then of course as the trains then were not made up of two units with no communicatuion between them - \ "design flaw" as the conductor described it in his announcement.

 

[GilfachFargoed]

LNER take this into account at several Scottish locations as well as stations between Hull and Doncaster where first class is off of the platform end.

They do, and it can ruin the customer experience for journeys of many hours when the remaining seats together in the desired class can not be reserved as a result.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 May 2026 ==

Realistically, yes (some operators can do it), but you can't account for people the using a seat selector to choose a different seat.

You can, it is possible to configure the reservation system to block reservations in a given coach for journeys to from specified stations.

 

[Falcon1200]

Avanti do specifically disable reservations at Haymarket for the rear 2 carriages of their trains at Haymarket incase it's an 11car train with the rear 2 unable to be reserved to/from Haymarket (coaches J and K towards Edinburgh/ B and A towards Preston.)

How do first class passengers reserve a seat on trains where J and K (or even just K) are the only FC carriages?

They can't.

That seems strange, and unnecessary, as it is announced even before Edinburgh services have left Euston that the rear two carriages will not be platformed at Haymarket, and it is well broadcast on the train too; All it means is having to walk through a maximum of 1.5 coaches to alight! Presumably anyone in the know simply books to Edinburgh and gets off at Haymarket instead.

 

[D1537]

That seems strange, and unnecessary, as it is announced even before Edinburgh services have left Euston that the rear two carriages will not be platformed at Haymarket, and it is well broadcast on the train too; All it means is having to walk through a maximum of 1.5 coaches to alight! Presumably anyone in the know simply books to Edinburgh and gets off at Haymarket instead.

Aye, I did look this up because I found it so odd, and it's true. For example, if you try to book Euston-Haymarket on the 1240 EUS-EDB, standard is fine, but if you try to book first it makes you get off at Preston and wait 73 minutes for a TPE! A lot of the booking engines will simply send you to King's Cross instead (which is often cheaper anyway).

Coming south it will happily sell you a FC ticket because J and K are platformed at Haymarket. Truly bizarre.

 

[Failed Unit]

It is interesting, back in the old days BR used to put you in to non platforms coaches on the HST and expect you to walk forward.

LNER certainly still do at Lincoln (if a 9 car is used) - but that is the first / last stop so doesn’t really matter. Wheelchair users get a “free” upgrade

 

[John Hardee]

Possibly why we didn't call at those stations

I recall in HST days catching a London service from Hayle, but the issue didn't arise then of course as the trains then were not made up of two units with no communicatuion between them - \ "design flaw" as the conductor described it in his announcement.

They are able to call at those stations in a 10 Car formation and customers need to make sure they are in the correct half of the train before arriving into those stations - and they are booked to do so regularly (mainly on weekends) - however during the week the majority of services to/from London will skip those smaller stations, with the local Penzance to/from Plymouth/Exeter services stopping there instead.

 

[reb0118]

How do first class passengers reserve a seat on trains where J and K (or even just K) are the only FC carriages?

Is this train not set down only at Haymarket so this is academic. In any case who is booking first class tickets from Haymarket to Edinburgh?

 

[Parallel]

Is this train not set down only at Haymarket so this is academic. In any case who is booking first class tickets from Haymarket to Edinburgh?

If you are going from London to Haymarket via Carlisle, usually the first class carriages are off the platform.

 

[reb0118]

I get that but you just walk through into Standard Premium before alighting. You generally have from Carlisle to Slateford to sort yourself out.

 

[D1537]

I get that but you just walk through into Standard Premium before alighting. You generally have from Carlisle to Slateford to sort yourself out.

You're missing the point, which is that on Avanti services, booking systems will not allow you to book first class tickets from Euston and intermediate stations to Haymarket.

The Euston-Edinburgh trains will either not appear on any itineraries, or will require you to actually get off a train heading for your destination and wait at Preston or Carlisle for a TPE service following behind.

Of course, anyone reading this here would simply book a ticket to Edinburgh instead and walk through the train, but the public might think that there were no FC tickets available.

 

[RupertW]

In the up direction HSTs used to stop at places like Redurth with all of standard class platformed and the first class coaches at the front end of the train off the platform. With the IETs though first class gets platformed with some standard class coaches at the rear unplatformed. Any reason for this change? In the down direction things seem to still be the same as with the HSTs.

 

[TheLastMinute]

In the up direction HSTs used to stop at places like Redurth with all of standard class platformed and the first class coaches at the front end of the train off the platform. With the IETs though first class gets platformed with some standard class coaches at the rear unplatformed. Any reason for this change? In the down direction things seem to still be the same as with the HSTs.

When the (full) HSTs were running, short platforms had standard class platformed regardless of which end 1st was so passengers could access the TGS to get bikes in and out.

When IETs came along, it was the front x coaches that were platformed regardless of if it was standard or 1st. I'd imagine the change was of SDO - counting back x coaches from the front leaves much less room for error, both on the part of the driver and the TMS logic.

 

[Merle Haggard]

That seems strange, and unnecessary, as it is announced even before Edinburgh services have left Euston that the rear two carriages will not be platformed at Haymarket, and it is well broadcast on the train too; All it means is having to walk through a maximum of 1.5 coaches to alight! Presumably anyone in the know simply books to Edinburgh and gets off at Haymarket instead.

Tangentially, that's not entirely correct. The on-station announcements always refer to 'should travel in' not 'should alight from'.
It's something that frustrate me; as a passenger in a TPE 5-car where First is the 5th car leaving Liverpool I hear the same; passengers for x y & z should travel in the first four coaches, so logically you can't travel in the First car with a First ticket. Same on EMR; passengers for Long Eaton are told by station announcement to travel in the first four coaches (though, in the last case, there are always on-board announcements to move forward, and only the DMF might be off the platform, depending on orientation)

 

[mmh]

Blimey, I think we're now approaching peak first world problem territory.

The obvious solution is to make all coaches first class.

Fantastic line in A Very British Coup: "Are you going to get rid of first class, Prime Minister? No, I'm going to get rid of second class."

 

[Falcon1200]

Tangentially, that's not entirely correct. The on-station announcements always refer to 'should travel in' not 'should alight from'.

I'm not at all clear on the point you are making. But I do understand exactly what the announcements at Euston and on the train mean.

 

[vlad]

When the (full) HSTs were running, short platforms had standard class platformed regardless of which end 1st was so passengers could access the TGS to get bikes in and out.

That wasn't always true. I remember stopping at Saltash heading eastbound where it was announced that the only carriage where the doors would open was the front one (which was first class). There may have been others - I only remember that one as I thought it was odd that only one carriage was platformed.

 

[louis97]

When the (full) HSTs were running, short platforms had standard class platformed regardless of which end 1st was so passengers could access the TGS to get bikes in and out.

When IETs came along, it was the front x coaches that were platformed regardless of if it was standard or 1st. I'd imagine the change was of SDO - counting back x coaches from the front leaves much less room for error, both on the part of the driver and the TMS logic.

As had already been mentioned there were many places where full length HSTs didn't stop with the TGS platformed. Camborne is another example, where the train was always platformed to not block the crossing.

Similarly with the IETs, it isn't as simple as saying the front coaches are platformed regardless, there are many places where the front door of the leading coach is not platformed. On top of that the various locations where the front of the train isn't platformed for various operational reasons. As such the driver is not regularly expected to select which doors to release, just to confirm which platform the train is in and the TMS then releases the appropriate number of doors.

 

[bleeder4]

I think it's a bit unreasonable to expect a coach you have reserved a seat in to always be platformed at your joining and leaving stations. You can reserve a seat up to 90 days in advance. The train operator won't know at that early stage what the train formation of that service will be, and they won't even know until around 24 hours before exactly which way around the train will be.

 

[styles]

I think it's a bit unreasonable to expect a coach you have reserved a seat in to always be platformed at your joining and leaving stations.

Why?

You can reserve a seat up to 90 days in advance. The train operator won't know at that early stage what the train formation of that service will be, and they won't even know until around 24 hours before exactly which way around the train will be.

I don't think passengers should be expected to know this kind of detail.

I think it's a reasonable expectation that if you book a seat in a carriage, you'll be able to get to that carriage from the platform. Public transport can be complicated enough for casual or occasional travellers, without ending up having to walk down half a dozen carriages to get to their seat then the same when they leave the train.

 

[Segedunum]

I think it's a bit unreasonable to expect a coach you have reserved a seat in to always be platformed at your joining and leaving stations. You can reserve a seat up to 90 days in advance. The train operator won't know at that early stage what the train formation of that service will be, and they won't even know until around 24 hours before exactly which way around the train will be.

Depending on the operator, formations can definitely be known that early. What's down to work what can accompany a Network Rail bid at T-16 weeks. If a service has seat reservations, the revenue team also needs to know how many seats they're releasing for sell. You can't just hope for the best.

Similarly, many services (particularly empty stock) are planned in such a way to keep something a particular way around (eg. LNER empties that go via Gainsborough to Lincoln will reverse at Boultham Junction).

 

[Haywain]

without ending up having to walk down half a dozen carriages to get to their seat then the same when they leave the train.

Which not everyone is capable of doing.

 

[Merle Haggard]

I'm not at all clear on the point you are making. But I do understand exactly what the announcements at Euston and on the train mean.

Sorry, wasn't suggesting that at all (my bold).
What I was trying to write was that, in the case of short platforms you can only alight from specific cars. but you can move to those specific cars from the non-platformed ones easily and before arrival. The announcements only refer to boarding or travelling in specific cars. While we understand the underlying meaning a passenger not well acquainted with railways may think that the announcement that passengers should board the front four coaches (for example) for their destination means just that - and if they board the fifth they will in some way or other not be able to alight.

Blimey, I think we're now approaching peak first world problem territory.

The obvious solution is to make all coaches first class.

Fantastic line in A Very British Coup: "Are you going to get rid of first class, Prime Minister? No, I'm going to get rid of second class."

As above, my post was connected to the loose language used in announcements inaccurately saying that you shouldn't travel in specific coaches instead of the fact that you can't alight from them.

 

[Falcon1200]

Sorry, wasn't suggesting that at all (my bold).

No problem, thanks.

 

[embers25]

I've never been on a train where a carriage that isn't going to fit on the platform hasn't had numerous audio and visual announcements stating just that.

GWR regularly don't make announcements about short platforms at Castle Cary and Pewsey, although they are pretty good in Cornwall. SWR were awful about forgetting the short platforms at Whimple and Feniton until you arrive (Tisbury they are much better on, helped westbound by the wait in the loop on most trains) but they are much better now. They do, however, regularly forget to announce the fact that they changed Pinhoe eastbound to only be the front 3 and so often people end up sprinting through.

 

[Russel]

GWR regularly don't make announcements about short platforms at Castle Cary and Pewsey, although they are pretty good in Cornwall. SWR were awful about forgetting the short platforms at Whimple and Feniton until you arrive (Tisbury they are much better on, helped westbound by the wait in the loop on most trains) but they are much better now. They do, however, regularly forget to announce the fact that they changed Pinhoe eastbound to only be the front 3 and so often people end up sprinting through.

This is where auto-announcements come into their own, LNWR and WMT are excellent for this with an auto-announcement followed by multiple manual announcements...

I've moaned about it on here before because when you hear it multiple times in a journey it does get irritating, but I do understand the need for it.

 

[Parallel]

Auto announcements are certainly made in the front carriage and the rear carriages at Pewsey. I use this route regularly. What is less good is when train crew talk over them with a less clear message!

 

[Russel]

Auto announcements are certainly made in the front carriage and the rear carriages at Pewsey. I use this route regularly. What is less good is when train crew talk over them with a less clear message!

Pet peeve of mine that is, perfectly clear auto-announcements followed by a manual announcement by someone who sounds like they have their head in a goldfish bowl.

 

[Bikeman78]

Or on Northern its very common that you don't get that information at all until it's too late to move forward, or more likely the information system is switched off completely.

Same on the Elizabeth line. Maryland, Forest Gate and Manor Park all have short platforms. I was on a packed train in the ninth coach heading to Brentwood with my kids. We saw people miss all three stops because there simply wasn't time to squeeze through between the announcement and the train departing from the next stop. I've no idea what announcements were made at Stratford. I don't recall any reference to the short platforms when we got on in the core.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 May 2026 ==

There did seem to be some confusion in the system, as the screens at Penzance showed coach A to be the sixth coach when in fact it was the rear one (ie the rear unit was the opposite way round to what the departure screen at Penzance showed)

I don't know why we are so bad at this. In Belgium, there is almost no real time information. However, at the few stations with screens, there are little pictures showing the formation of the train. Bear in mind they are up to 12 cars, formed of four three car sets, all of which can be either way around. Whenever I bothered to cross check the screen with reality, the info was spot on.

 

[embers25]

Pet peeve of mine that is, perfectly clear auto-announcements followed by a manual announcement by someone who sounds like they have their head in a goldfish bowl.

Agreed. My last trip the auto announcements were off and the guard just announced the station and my coach was out at both with no warning and so people had to run through.

 

[Starmill]

I don't know why we are so bad at this. In Belgium, there is almost no real time information. However, at the few stations with screens, there are little pictures showing the formation of the train. Bear in mind they are up to 12 cars, formed of four three car sets, all of which can be either way around. Whenever I bothered to cross check the screen with reality, the info was spot on.

In Wallonia and Brussels, the announcements are almost always correct as well. "Les voyageurs a destination de [station] ne pevent pas embarquer dans les derineres [number] voitures." or "Passengers to [destination station] must not board in the rear [number] coaches." which is actually useful because it's a) snappy and clear and b) provided at the point where there's still a chance to do something about it.