TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
2023
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TfW class 398 Stadler Citylink tram trains
- Thread starter Bob Price
- Start date
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RailUK Forums
Chris125
Established Member
South Wales Metro is the flagship Welsh Government infrastructure project serving the nations capital and affecting a significant portion of the countries population, it defies belief that local, national and specialist industry journalists wouldn't be interested in such incredible allegations.
The obvious explanation is that those posting them aren't as confident in their accuracy and seriousness as posts here imply, or further investigation has shown enough of them to be baseless or exaggerated that the journalist(s) wouldn't run the story.
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Markdvdman
Member
I recall they said they were going to go live in 2023 and bring rail fares down! Notice they no longer mention that - they should be forced on that or apologise the rail users for fantasy truths! Ideology as usual!
Looks like 4 years later for full usage. I am not looking forward to these they are incredibly narrow compared to the lovely 756s!
Looks like 4 years later for full usage. I am not looking forward to these they are incredibly narrow compared to the lovely 756s!
According to Wikipedia the difference is 7 cm which I work out as 2.5% less wide than a FLIRT.
Of course it depends on what height you measure width at.
I suspect though that the front design makes the 398s look narrower than they are. They do narrow significantly towards the front and I think the tall windscreen also adds to the impression.
Markdvdman
Member
Wikipedia can be wrong it has been proven to be many times although I do like it! No way is it 7cm! I saw the driver passing last week and he nearly filled the front width and no he was not a bodybuilder or Big Bert!
Absolutely. Which is why I said I was giving figures from Wikipedia rather than stating them as fact.
Not how it looks to me in the photos I took on Sunday. And the cab certainly does taper.
They have managed to fit in 4 seats across and an aisle in the passenger areas.
Markdvdman
Member
They managed to fit 4 seats on pacers remember NARROW aisles. That is how I see the 398s! The 756s have lovely roomy ailes! Should have gone for 756s all the way all due to this ideological on street running when traffic is chaos in Cardiff at the best of times!
bahnause
Member
The information on Wikipedia matches that in the data sheet. It is a 7cm difference according to this.
Pictures taken from the following website attached showing centre aisle (unable to tell how narrow/wide it is)
The following website also shows a really good photo of the interior but I can't figure out how to save a picture to add to here.
New electric trams unveiled for Wales
World of Railways is the UKs biggest Railway themed website, incorporating British Railway Modelling, Garden Rail, Narrow Gauge World & Tractionwww.world-of-railways.co.uk
InnoTrans 2022 (30)
Stadler also presented in Berlin the CITYLINK tram-train 398 004 for TfW.www.railvolution.net
Attachments
Markdvdman
Member
The seats look very narrow. They are not designed for comfort but for speed. I despise this ideology
I think they look like the seats on the 231/756.
Daniel Boone
Member
They do look pretty similar, are they not Fainsa Sophia as opposed to Fainsa Leans on the FLIRTs?
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
FISA Lean on the FLIRTs, but yes Fainsa Sophia, the modified version with a thicker cushion (no noticeable bar) and more contoured back, although the 398s do not have armrests in between them.
tfw756rider
On Moderation
398s and 197s have Fainsa Sophia seats; 231s and 756s have FISA Lean seats.
Cambrian359
Member
- Joined
- 17 Jun 2018
- Messages
- 303
I think the original aim back in 2017/2018 was for them to start end of 2021 and rolled out by end of 2022. But a lot has happened in the world since then. (Hopefully document screenshot attached)
No, I remember fairly generous aisles on the Pacers when they were in a 2x2 seat configuration.
And I don't recall them being particularly narrow when they had 2x3 bus seats.
141s were certainly narrower than usual UK stock - I believe they were the width of a Leyland National bus.
But I wasn't aware that Pacers were particularly narrow and I don't know why they would have been.
tfw756rider
On Moderation
Yes, that's a throwback!
StripeyNick
Member
tfw756rider
On Moderation
Looks like the 398s have the 730/197 BreakEasy (TM) power sockets 
Cardiff123
Established Member
So there's no tables on the 398s? The interior looks modern, but basic and functional. On the Pacers, there were gaps between the seats, even without armrests......
Daniel Boone
Member
No USB-C is quite disappointing for new stock. I suppose it is testament to their age.
Seems that the TFW rolling stock program was slightly too early, for USB-C to have been deemed desirable.
Seems that the TFW rolling stock program was slightly too early, for USB-C to have been deemed desirable.
tfw756rider
On Moderation
The 398s do have tables, albeit of the "seat-back" variety.
I don't think they have any bays of big fixed floorstanding tables with facing seats though, no. I wasn't expecting those anyway with what the 398s are, although they would've been a novelty when running "on-street"!
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I carry a USB-C to USB-A cable, as well as a USB-A to 3-pin power adapter, that's my solution anyway. I carry what is necessary to use my phone with the trains' sockets
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Daniel Boone
Member
When travelling on the Marches which is where I do the bulk of my train travelling I always pack an AC adapter - much better to have fast charging rather than what I'd assume is the poor 10-15W provided by the trains USB ports.I carry a USB-C to USB-A cable, as well as a USB-A to 3-pin power adapter, that's my solution anyway. I carry what is necessary to use my phone with the trains' sockets
When on the Metro though in a pinch I'd be nice to just grab a c to c cable so I dont have to carry a AC adapter around.
Markdvdman
Member
I carry a 45W charger for my S23 Ultra, but also carry a few powerbanks. It adds wait but on some 231s, people have put vhewing gum in USB A ports! The 197s are sometimes too loose, and the 150s sometimes just do not work (understandably). So I like to cover all bases
Defiance149
Member
- Joined
- 30 Dec 2013
- Messages
- 497
Another set delivered to Taff's Well this morning.
Pay as you go has brought rail fares down? It's considerably cheaper for some journeys and with the Railcard support that's hopefully coming soon (see other sections on forum) it'll ensure you're never worse off.
The 398s are very late obviously. But given the big push for accessibility I highly doubt those 7cms are going to make it overly cramped.
Markdvdman
Member
Pay as you go has helped but it is not ALL fares - only specific routes. Also, you are bound by 2.5hr time limits, cannot break a stop and some people are frightened of ths ues of it I have spoken to them and they do not trust it! I have used it and can be great. Example Merthyr to Caldicot £4.40 payg, £18 I think ticket so some good bargains agreed!
34 is on road 14
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17 just left for Aberdare 30 & 24 just arrived from Treherbert
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It's all fairs the 398s have anything to do with. You can also do break of journey it'll automatically give you a single from origin to eventual destination if it's cheaper than two PAYG singles. Fair point that not everyone trusts it.
Does anyone know what the status is with the wheels on the 398s? I recall previous discussion that the cross rail ones might need a different wheel profile that would require check rails to be installed. Is this still a concern?