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TfW class 398 Stadler Citylink tram trains

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Chris125

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I think its probably gone under the radar from the media because there's not been any noticeable impact on the rail service. Journalists aren't particularly accurate on reporting on rail issues unless its blindingly obvious what the issue is and is affecting the general public.

South Wales Metro is the flagship Welsh Government infrastructure project serving the nations capital and affecting a significant portion of the countries population, it defies belief that local, national and specialist industry journalists wouldn't be interested in such incredible allegations.

The obvious explanation is that those posting them aren't as confident in their accuracy and seriousness as posts here imply, or further investigation has shown enough of them to be baseless or exaggerated that the journalist(s) wouldn't run the story.
 
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Markdvdman

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Merthyr Tydfil / Gorslas
I recall they said they were going to go live in 2023 and bring rail fares down! Notice they no longer mention that - they should be forced on that or apologise the rail users for fantasy truths! Ideology as usual!

Looks like 4 years later for full usage. I am not looking forward to these they are incredibly narrow compared to the lovely 756s!
 

AdamWW

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I recall they said they were going to go live in 2023 and bring rail fares down! Notice they no longer mention that - they should be forced on that or apologise the rail users for fantasy truths! Ideology as usual!

Looks like 4 years later for full usage. I am not looking forward to these they are incredibly narrow compared to the lovely 756s!

According to Wikipedia the difference is 7 cm which I work out as 2.5% less wide than a FLIRT.

Of course it depends on what height you measure width at.

I suspect though that the front design makes the 398s look narrower than they are. They do narrow significantly towards the front and I think the tall windscreen also adds to the impression.
 

Markdvdman

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Wikipedia can be wrong it has been proven to be many times although I do like it! No way is it 7cm! I saw the driver passing last week and he nearly filled the front width and no he was not a bodybuilder or Big Bert!
 

AdamWW

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Wikipedia can be wrong it has been proven to be many times although I do like it!

Absolutely. Which is why I said I was giving figures from Wikipedia rather than stating them as fact.

I saw the driver passing last week and he nearly filled the front width and no he was not a bodybuilder or Big Bert!

Not how it looks to me in the photos I took on Sunday. And the cab certainly does taper.
They have managed to fit in 4 seats across and an aisle in the passenger areas.
 

Markdvdman

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They managed to fit 4 seats on pacers remember NARROW aisles. That is how I see the 398s! The 756s have lovely roomy ailes! Should have gone for 756s all the way all due to this ideological on street running when traffic is chaos in Cardiff at the best of times!
 

800001

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They managed to fit 4 seats on pacers remember NARROW aisles. That is how I see the 398s! The 756s have lovely roomy ailes! Should have gone for 756s all the way all due to this ideological on street running when traffic is chaos in Cardiff at the best of times!
Pictures taken from the following website attached showing centre aisle (unable to tell how narrow/wide it is)
The following website also shows a really good photo of the interior but I can't figure out how to save a picture to add to here.

 

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TT-ONR-NRN

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Cambridge
They do look pretty similar, are they not Fainsa Sophia as opposed to Fainsa Leans on the FLIRTs?
FISA Lean on the FLIRTs, but yes Fainsa Sophia, the modified version with a thicker cushion (no noticeable bar) and more contoured back, although the 398s do not have armrests in between them.
 

Cambrian359

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17 Jun 2018
Messages
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I've lost track with this project, when were the 398 fleet supposed to of entered passenger service?
I think the original aim back in 2017/2018 was for them to start end of 2021 and rolled out by end of 2022. But a lot has happened in the world since then. (Hopefully document screenshot attached)IMG_0905.jpeg
 

AdamWW

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They managed to fit 4 seats on pacers remember NARROW aisles.

No, I remember fairly generous aisles on the Pacers when they were in a 2x2 seat configuration.
And I don't recall them being particularly narrow when they had 2x3 bus seats.

141s were certainly narrower than usual UK stock - I believe they were the width of a Leyland National bus.
But I wasn't aware that Pacers were particularly narrow and I don't know why they would have been.
 

StripeyNick

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25 Apr 2012
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I found the seats to be reasonably comfortable but they have quite a short base. You can tell they are more suited to shorter journeys
 

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Cardiff123

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South Wales
I found the seats to be reasonably comfortable but they have quite a short base. You can tell they are more suited to shorter journeys
So there's no tables on the 398s? The interior looks modern, but basic and functional. On the Pacers, there were gaps between the seats, even without armrests......
 

Daniel Boone

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No USB-C is quite disappointing for new stock. I suppose it is testament to their age.

Seems that the TFW rolling stock program was slightly too early, for USB-C to have been deemed desirable.
 

tfw756rider

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So there's no tables on the 398s?
The 398s do have tables, albeit of the "seat-back" variety.

I don't think they have any bays of big fixed floorstanding tables with facing seats though, no. I wasn't expecting those anyway with what the 398s are, although they would've been a novelty when running "on-street"!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

No USB-C is quite disappointing for new stock. I suppose it is testament to their age.

Seems that the TFW rolling stock program was slightly too early, for USB-C to have been deemed desirable.
I carry a USB-C to USB-A cable, as well as a USB-A to 3-pin power adapter, that's my solution anyway. I carry what is necessary to use my phone with the trains' sockets :)
 
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Daniel Boone

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I carry a USB-C to USB-A cable, as well as a USB-A to 3-pin power adapter, that's my solution anyway. I carry what is necessary to use my phone with the trains' sockets :)
When travelling on the Marches which is where I do the bulk of my train travelling I always pack an AC adapter - much better to have fast charging rather than what I'd assume is the poor 10-15W provided by the trains USB ports.

When on the Metro though in a pinch I'd be nice to just grab a c to c cable so I dont have to carry a AC adapter around.
 

Markdvdman

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14 Aug 2011
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I carry a 45W charger for my S23 Ultra, but also carry a few powerbanks. It adds wait but on some 231s, people have put vhewing gum in USB A ports! The 197s are sometimes too loose, and the 150s sometimes just do not work (understandably). So I like to cover all bases :)
 

positron

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18 Oct 2022
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Cardiff
I recall they said they were going to go live in 2023 and bring rail fares down! Notice they no longer mention that - they should be forced on that or apologise the rail users for fantasy truths! Ideology as usual!

Looks like 4 years later for full usage. I am not looking forward to these they are incredibly narrow compared to the lovely 756s!
Pay as you go has brought rail fares down? It's considerably cheaper for some journeys and with the Railcard support that's hopefully coming soon (see other sections on forum) it'll ensure you're never worse off.

The 398s are very late obviously. But given the big push for accessibility I highly doubt those 7cms are going to make it overly cramped.
 

John R

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1 Jul 2013
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Given the amount of rolling stock that has 2+3 seating, including services that travel much longer distances, I find it hard to imagine that the seating will be too narrow.
 

Markdvdman

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Merthyr Tydfil / Gorslas
Pay as you go has helped but it is not ALL fares - only specific routes. Also, you are bound by 2.5hr time limits, cannot break a stop and some people are frightened of ths ues of it I have spoken to them and they do not trust it! I have used it and can be great. Example Merthyr to Caldicot £4.40 payg, £18 I think ticket so some good bargains agreed!
 

positron

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Pay as you go has helped but it is not ALL fares - only specific routes. Also, you are bound by 2.5hr time limits, cannot break a stop and some people are frightened of ths ues of it I have spoken to them and they do not trust it! I have used it and can be great. Example Merthyr to Caldicot £4.40 payg, £18 I think ticket so some good bargains agreed!
It's all fairs the 398s have anything to do with. You can also do break of journey it'll automatically give you a single from origin to eventual destination if it's cheaper than two PAYG singles. Fair point that not everyone trusts it.

Does anyone know what the status is with the wheels on the 398s? I recall previous discussion that the cross rail ones might need a different wheel profile that would require check rails to be installed. Is this still a concern?
 

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