Is Bombardier a British Company?

[Kingfisher200262]

I know this is a provocative thread, especially given that I'm the one starting it.

However, last evening's London Evening Standard carried THIS article, about Victoria Line tube trains leaving stations with doors open. In the article, it described Bombardier as a German company.

Given the issues relating to the Thameslink contract, involving another "German" company, it would be worth debating this and looking at Bombardier's ownership lineage.

Unless I'm mistaken, as far as Derby goes, it goes something like this: -

Midland Railway (British)
London Midland & Scottish (LMS, British)
British Rail (der... British)
BREL (British)
ABB (Swedish)
AdTranz (German)
Bombardier (Canadian - with German Europe HQ).

Maybe the reason Bombardier is described as a German company, is because it's bad news about failing trains that's being reported. If the news had been good, perhaps about new trains performing way beyond everyone's expectations, it would be a British company. Or am I just being cynical?

Thoughts?

 

[sprinterguy]

BREL is certainly British: British Rail Engineering Limited; so no need for the question mark.

Personally, I'd say that Bombardier are a Canadian company.

 

[Kingfisher200262]

BREL is certainly British: British Rail Engineering Limited; so no need for the question mark.

Personally, I'd say that Bombardier are a Canadian company.

Point taken, and amended accordingly. The only reason for the question mark was that I was unsure where the finance came from for the purchase from BR.

 

[blacknight]

Bombardier may not be a British company but they do employ British workers, who pay taxes & spend money in local economyalso might have been a chance of exporting design to overseas railways to help with balance of payments, something Government failed to take into account in awarding recent contract.
If Bombardier close Derby works it will have minimal impact on Bombardier but will have a far greater impact on British workers & Derby.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I thought that ABB were Swiss?

 

[Yew]

I thought that ABB were Swiss?

Sweeden, I work for Siemens Turbomachinery (formerly ABB Alsthom) and we have some gas turbine works In Finspong that where from ABB (I work at the old Ruston works, which where bought by alsthom before the merger)

 

[Hydro]

You're both right. They're Swiss-Swedish. The "A" is Swedish (ASEA) and the BB is Swiss (Brown, Boveri).

 

[anthony263]

Canadian with a uk manafucturing facility, i suspect if seimen's also had a british plant they would not have got as much of a bad press as they have.

 

[Kingfisher200262]

Canadian with a uk manafucturing facility, i suspect if seimen's also had a british plant they would not have got a must of a bad press as they have.

The Railway Industry Association (RIA) regards both Alstom and Siemens as "UK based", on the strength of their employing a large number of people in the UK to maintain the trains that they have supplied.

Should this also be considered?

 

[jopsuk]

There is a legal entity within the Bombardier group called Bombardier Transportation UK Ltd - though that's normal practice for a multinational's UK operations. Similarly there is also Bombardier Aerospace UK Ltd- aka Shorts Brothers, Belfast.

 

[anthony263]

The Railway Industry Association (RIA) regards both Alstom and Siemens as "UK based", on the strength of their employing a large number of people in the UK to maintain the trains that they have supplied.

Should this also be considered?

Yes i think it should, with Hitachi building a uk manaufacturing facility, would that mean they will also be classed as a british company

 

[T163R]

Bombardier is Canadian.
Siemens is German.
London Evening Standard is...such a crap.

 

[graham43404]

Canadian with a uk manafucturing facility, i suspect if seimen's also had a british plant they would not have got a must of a bad press as they have.

I would go along with both also.

The Daily Mirror in particular seem to be on a crusade against Siemens using half stories and poor journalism.

 

[Hydro]

The Daily Mirror in particular seem to be on a crusade against Siemens using half stories and poor journalism.

You should see the local papers around Derby...

 

[Butts]

I was under the impression that the Siemens Contract would also provide jobs or at least safeguard them in the UK.

How many of the people complaining about their award of the contract are driving about in BMW, Mercedes and Volkswagen Cars

As for the Daily Mirror to describe it as a newspaper is an affront to journalism:roll:

 

[MCR247]

Bombardiers headquaters are in Berlin, hence the reason for this at Berlin Hbf

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Globalisation of manufacturing means that it is pointless classifying multinational companies by "home" country.
By some analysis Rolls Royce Motors and Mini are "German" (BMW), while Toyota and Nissan are "British".
The Airbus you fly in will consist of wings from UK, engines from USA, fuselage from Germany and assembled in France.

I know Bombardier would have assembled Thameslink stock in Derby but they could equally well build it in Germany, Canada, anywhere.

Siemens Group actually has a large British presence and don't forget they built up much of the UK's original electricity infrastructure before 1914 in plants which became GEC, English Electric etc.

I lost interest in nationality issues a long time ago when my company was forced to buy its cars from BL and air tickets from BA in the national interest, but they didn't have to bother to buy our (homegrown) computers and cheerfully bought overseas.

You only win with a better product/price.

 

[T163R]

Bombardiers headquaters are in Berlin, hence the reason for this at Berlin Hbf

Yes, but these are the headquarters of Bombardier Transportation.
The headquarters of Bombardier Aerospace is in Dorval, Quebec, Canada.
And the headquarters of the main branch of the company, Bombardier Inc. is in...Montréal, Quebec, Canada.

 

[MCR247]

Oh ok

 

[swt_passenger]

Latest Rail mag has an article about the RMT objecting to Siemens own design of bogie on the Thameslink trains.

They think the Bombardier Flexx Eco (aka B5000) bogie should be used instead. Unfortunately this bogie's production line is also in Germany.

 

[Hydro]

"I'm as British as Queen Victoria!"

"So you're half German, you married a German and your father's a German?"

 

[fgwrich]

Latest Rail mag has an article about the RMT objecting to Siemens own design of bogie on the Thameslink trains.

They think the Bombardier Flexx Eco (aka B5000) bogie should be used instead. Unfortunately this bogie's production line is also in Germany.

Correct me if im wrong, but wasnt its stated somewhere in one of the Thameslink articles that Siemens had approached Bombardier about the use of the Flexx Eco bogies...But Bombardier turned that down? :roll:

With all of thise going on over here, i wonder how the future could turn out for the new rolling stock contracts in DB land...With Bombardier and Siemens working together on new trains for DB?

 

[gordonthemoron]

"I'm as British as Queen Victoria!"

"So you're half German, you married a German and your father's a German?"

Love Blackadder

 

[fgwrich]

"I'm as British as Queen Victoria!"

"So you're half German, you married a German and your father's a German?"

Good Point!...Good Old Blackadder!

 

[gordonthemoron]

Siemens & Bombardier are working together on the new ICx trains which looks like being a bit of a dog's breakfast, not quite IEP Bi-mode ludicrousness but fairly weird. They also worked together in the ICE-T I think

 

[tbtc]

Latest Rail mag has an article about the RMT objecting to Siemens own design of bogie on the Thameslink trains

Sorry, but what has this got to do with the Union?

(not having a go at you swt_passenger btw)

 

[swt_passenger]

Sorry, but what has this got to do with the Union?

Good question. Are there loads of RMT members working at Derby, otherwise it's really nowt to do with them.

 

[bnm]

Read somewhere, (RAIL, I believe) that Bombardier Derby would still have laid off 1200 workers even if they'd won the Thameslink contract.

 

[fgwrich]

Read somewhere, (RAIL, I believe) that Bombardier Derby would still have laid off 1200 workers even if they'd won the Thameslink contract.

Yep! But the media does love a good story! and rather likes to forget that part...afterall, Bombardier seems to be played out as a british company and its britain against the germans...despite of course, Bombardier transportations Berlin HQ and Bombardiers French Canadian HQ...

 

[90019]

Read somewhere, (RAIL, I believe) that Bombardier Derby would still have laid off 1200 workers even if they'd won the Thameslink contract.

Never let facts get in the way of a story, especially one to get the readers outraged.