Howardh
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Lumo West Coast fares
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I wonder if they might release short distance Advances much later so as not to block reservable seats? Avanti don't really have that issue with their much greater capacity, and on TPE Bolton-Carlisle is a very high proportion of the route.
lrbvoyager
Member
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So virtually no one is going to choose Lumo. The seats on avanti and TPE will be far superior and it will be quieter as they are electric.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Lumo are probably more interested in London-Scotland (principally London-Glasgow) and London-Preston traffic and will not be too bothered about clogging up seats with short distance passengers unless they are sure they won't sell them for longer distance trips. With only short units they have to be more bothered about this than Avanti.
It wouldn't surprise me to see Advances released for this journey much nearer the time once they have established the longer distance demand.
Kite159
Veteran Member
Agreed there, as they are only running 6 coach trains (all be standard class), they will be more interested in longer distance sales than shorter journeys.
Would be similar to Lumo on the East Coast selling dirt cheap advances between Newcastle & Morpeth and hence blocking sales of London - Edinburgh (or Newcastle - Edinburgh) tickets.
Mainline421
Member
The West Coast services won't serve Glasgow
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
They do however serve several places very near it with easy connections to/from it. I know, you know, and they know, that there aren't going to be huge amounts of passengers from Stirling. Not serving Glasgow Central just hides the typically abstractive nature of open access operations.
In time, I'm sure.
Many new Lumo+[TOC] fares are still being set for the ECML operations even in recent months.
redreni
Established Member
Revenue generation, surely? Rather than protection. If it's a fare that only exists to cook the books when calculating settlements.
It is somewhat odd that those are still being offered given SWR's nationalisation. It would appear absurd for them to be offered once GBR is established, and Lumo is a direct competitor that it will be in the nationalised railway's interests to take out of business.
I'm sure someone could build an anti-competitive case against them if they did that, saying they are abusing their monopolistic market position or something.
In reality, I think the DfT would be happy to encourage full use of all the railway's capacity given how constrained it is today.
Only time will tell, though.
dk1
Veteran Member
I am hearing rumours that Lumo West Coast have agreed to accept free/priv rail staff. This is excellent news for their own employees too if true.
dk1
Veteran Member
Many thanks for that. I’d only heard it along the grapevine but good to know it’s officiaL.
Just noticed RDG have updated the rail staff travel pages such.
Farigiraf
Established Member
Any plans for the Preston-Carlisle section to be included in the North West Rover?
Lumo do accept the North East Rover between Newcastle and Morpeth so they clearly aren't opposed to the idea.
Edit: They do also stop at Lockerbie which is also valid on the NW Rover using TPE/AWC
Lumo do accept the North East Rover between Newcastle and Morpeth so they clearly aren't opposed to the idea.
Edit: They do also stop at Lockerbie which is also valid on the NW Rover using TPE/AWC
Last edited:
dk1
Veteran Member
Somebody asked on X yesterday as to whether the West Midlands Ranger was valid but it was not.
Farigiraf
Established Member
Chances are that until that tweet nobody at Lumo really considered someone using the WM Ranger from Nuneaton to Crewe as it's a niche use case, and since they're an OAO they can choose to not bother with these things as they don't generate any extra revenue.
The idea that TOCs can opt out of accepting an interavailable ticket, when they are a Train Company participating in the NRCoT and it is not a restriction shown on the ticket, is highly questionable.
Farigiraf
Established Member
Agreed, it just creates more disjointedness. Grand Central and Hull Trains seem to have opted out all rover tickets if the RailRover site is anything to go by, despite no compulsory reservations. HT's case is particularly odd since Lumo, also a FirstGroup venture, does accept most relevant rovers on its ECML route.
hornbeampark
Member
Lots of rangers/rovers have operator restrictions so I imagine they can.
However, while I understand that most people who use these ticket types know where to look for such information, I have long since believed there should be a better system in place for advertising validity at the point of purchase/on the ticket. Similar to the nre links to advertise time restrictions.
dk1
Veteran Member
Oh they most certainly can. Many including some normal operators like XC will not accept localised ranger style tickets or group save. Thankfully all accept free & priv rail staff travel.
Merle Haggard
Established Member
At the start, Grand Central did not accept free & priv staff travel presumably because they did not include their own staff in the arrangements.
Curiously, possibly after a while, there was also an arrangement that if you asked the train manager to be accommodated and they agreed you could travel. On the few occasions I tried (e.g., a Lincoln divert by HST) I was always willingly accepted.
dk1
Veteran Member
Yes I remember that well. Why penalise your own staff? Never understood that attitude. Thankfully common sense prevailed.
West Midlands Day Ranger | National Rail
Special offer: West Midlands Day Ranger. The portal into UK rail travel, including information on ticket purchase and promotions, train times and delays, and more.
Ah there is a list of allowed operators. Fair enough.
But it is not a restriction shown on the ticket. How the average person is supposed to know that they can't actually take all the trains in the area of validity is unclear to me and I very much doubt it complies with the NRCoT.West Midlands Day Ranger | National Rail
Special offer: West Midlands Day Ranger. The portal into UK rail travel, including information on ticket purchase and promotions, train times and delays, and more.www.nationalrail.co.uk
Ah there is a list of allowed operators. Fair enough.
Gareth1990
Member
What about All Line Rovers? Are they accepted on Lumo West Coast?
dk1
Veteran Member
Yes they are. Ironically they are not valid into or out of London Kings Cross or Euston before 10:00 Mon-Fri on LNER or Avanti but none of the OA operators are mentioned in that restriction.
Grand Central doesn't have any Bradford services at King's Cross before 10:00 on weekdays, only one (northbound) Sunderland one, only two northbound and one southbound Hull Trains ones would be affected, and only one Lumo service per route per direction. I'd suspect that any first class ALR users would be likelier to use open-access operators for the experience / for rarer track rather than all the way from London to Doncaster etc. and would prefer to get better value from the tickets with complimentary Avanti or LNER meals.