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Sometimes @sd0733 can see them on the internal system even if they don't go out to the publicly viewable data, but even then, again, only sometimes. I used to see most of the 197 workings on the Cambrian, but now I'm focusing on the coast as I've seen plenty of the Aberystwyths and Shrewsburys.
They've been on the Cambrian overnight recently as a pair (Rail Operations Group-operated mileage accumulation for CAF), so not yet accepted by Transport for Wales.
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Looking at 197040 and 197041 they are on the odd-one-out trips - Between Crewe and Machynlleth and not further West.
Got me wondering.
Does that mean they might NOT be using ETCS on those two units (197040 & 197041) ?.
Alternatively I suppose mileage accumulation does not really have to involve going to Machynlleth. So, since they are, perhaps that means they will stray further West onto the coast once they have passed mileage accumulation ?.
Does anyone know what has been the pattern before ?.
ETCS definitely in use - without, they wouldn't be able to go on any part of the Cambrian railway. Not to Machynlleth, Caersws, Newtown, Welshpool, anywhere past Sutton Bridge Junction.
Alternatively I suppose mileage accumulation does not really have to involve going to Machynlleth. So, since they are, perhaps that means they will stray further West onto the coast once they have passed mileage accumulation ?.
Someone else can correct me here if necessary, but as I understand it, it's ETCS mileage accumulation, meaning that it's mileage accumulation that has to take place with ETCS signalling in use, so on the Cambrian.
The run is normally Crewe South Yard-Machynlleth-Welshpool-Newtown-Crewe South Yard.
1) 197/0e gets delivered (and cleaned, etc.)
2) 197/0e does a test run "off-Cambrian"
3) 197/0e does night-time ETCS mileage accumulation runs on the Cambrian for CAF, operated by Rail Operations Group
4) all going well, 197/0e gets accepted by Transport for Wales
5) Transport for Wales may then choose to use that 197/0e for their daytime Cambrian training runs
If we look at 197041, it went from 1) in March 2026 to 3) in April 2026. Then at a later date, it could go to 4) and 5).
197039 was doing 3) in October 2025 and was doing 5) in April 2026.
ETCS definitely in use - without, they wouldn't be able to go on any part of the Cambrian railway. Not to Machynlleth, Caersws, Newtown, Welshpool, anywhere past Sutton Bridge Junction.
It’s permissible to have an unfitted traction unit on ETCS railways so long as the leading cab is ETCS fitted. It’s the principle used by the Cambrian’s log train and charters with an unfitted 37 kept tucked inside.
ETCS definitely in use - without, they wouldn't be able to go on any part of the Cambrian railway. Not to Machynlleth, Caersws, Newtown, Welshpool, anywhere past Sutton Bridge Junction.
Someone else can correct me here if necessary, but as I understand it, it's ETCS mileage accumulation, meaning that it's mileage accumulation that has to take place with ETCS signalling in use, so on the Cambrian.
The run is normally Crewe South Yard-Machynlleth-Welshpool-Newtown-Crewe South Yard.
The usual pattern as I understand it is:
1) 197/0e gets delivered (and cleaned, etc.)
2) 197/0e does a test run "off-Cambrian"
3) 197/0e does night-time ETCS mileage accumulation runs on the Cambrian for CAF, operated by Rail Operations Group
4) all going well, 197/0e gets accepted by Transport for Wales
5) Transport for Wales may then choose to use that 197/0e for their daytime Cambrian training runs
If we look at 197041, it went from 1) in March 2026 to 3) in April 2026. Then at a later date, it could go to 4) and 5).
197039 was doing 3) in October 2025 and was doing 5) in April 2026.
I had overlooked that ETCS signalling covers East of Machynlleth as far as Sutton Bridge Junction (the junction near Shrewsbury with the line Southwards to Wales).
I suppose it is at or after step 5 that a 197e might become used on non-ETCS services/routes with its ETCS switched out ?.
It’s permissible to have an unfitted traction unit on ETCS railways so long as the leading cab is ETCS fitted. It’s the principle used by the Cambrian’s log train and charters with an unfitted 37 kept tucked inside.
Yes, and then there are things like a Special Protection Zone (SPZ), which I understand that 197s ran under at night on the Cambrian in 2022 and 2023, and a full-on possession, the reason I have seen a 37 run at Machynlleth without a 97 in front (though around) at night in 2022, and a 56 and 66 run in the Welshpool and Newtown areas in the daytime in 2023 at low speed during track replacement works.
But I'm pretty sure that all the night-time 197 Cambrian ETCS mileage accumulation runs (from the May 2025 ones with 197029+197030 - yes, they were there once! - to the recent April 2026 ones with 197040+197041 - were under normal operation of the ETCS signalling system.
197041+197040 did Crewe South Yard-Machynlleth, then, for some reason (maybe to balance out cab driven-from hours?) the train was "reformed" to 197041+197040 for Machynlleth-Welshpool, but then Welshpool-Newtown was 197040+197041 and Newtown-Crewe South Yard was 197041+197040.
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I had overlooked that ETCS signalling covers East of Machynlleth as far as Sutton Bridge Junction (the junction near Shrewsbury with the line Southwards to Wales).
Yes, the Welshpool and Newtown part of the Cambrian isn't the "nice" part of it like the Cambrian Coast Line (towards Pwllheli via Aberdovey, Tywyn, Barmouth etc.) or even the Dovey Junction-Borth part of the Aberystwyth line, but it's very much still part of the Cambrian railway and its ETCS signalling system.
Newtown platform 2 waiting shelter is actually the only place I've seen old "Cambrian" logos (forming some sort of "air vents" in the brickwork, I don't know why because it's an open shelter, but anyway...)
60163 Tornado's night-time ETCS test runs on the Cambrian in April 2025 were also only to Welshpool and Newtown, because apparently it would've been too heavy even for a bridge in the Caersws area, let alone Barmouth Bridge.
Yes, although I'm a bit confused by 197029 entering service "off-Cambrian" in February 2025 but then being used on the night-time ETCS mileage accumulation runs (with 197030) in May 2025, even though it was already accepted. Makes sense in a way, maybe it was just done differently back then and things hadn't "caught up" or something.
197107 was at Birmingham International (BHI) on the 22nd March 2026 - Only time it has been so far this year.
Could only have been OOS for Weeks rather than Months.
Literally, or do you mean Birmingham International?
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After reading a couple of posts in another thread (linked here and here) discussing how on the very rare occasions that the 175s (when "Welsh") operated on the Heart of Wales line, their small cab door windows could've been an issue with the pull cord-operated level crossings,
I was reminded of something that occurred to me recently - the Cambrian Coast Line also has some pull cord-operated level crossings (I know of the Barmouth and Porthmadog ones), and the 197/0e units also don't have the big opening windows right beside the driver that the 158s/Sprinters have.
Does that mean then that in a 197, when the driver stops at the pull cord, they have to get out of the seat, go to the cab door behind and (because the window is too small) open the door and reach out to pull the cord, and then close the door and get back into the seat (rather than, in a 158, simply reaching the pull cord from the seat through the window beside it)?
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Someone I know has told me this (Sat 2/5/26):
Severe delays on the marches this afternoon due to what is believed to be a fire onboard 1V42 (197125)
Real-time train running information for 1V42 1230 departure from Manchester Piccadilly to Newport (South Wales) on 02/05/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
I hope everyone's OK. Looks like it happened between Pontrilas and Abergavenny (I seem to recall that a 175 caught fire in the Pontrilas area in 2019). See attached Realtime Trains screenshots.
I believe that this is the first 197 engine fire incident (do correct me if I'm wrong).
He said that he read about it on Facebook but he can't find the post, but there are a few posts about it.
Broken down train halts services from Abergavenny as delays expected until this evening
Train services are at a standstill on Transport for Wales services between Abergavenny and Hereford due to broken down train this afternoon. Passengers are being warned to expect delays until this evening, TfW is warning.
"Services will be delayed by up to 60 minutes. Services will be cancelled in both directions between Newport (South Wales) (NWP) and Hereford (HFD)," the operator said on its website.
"We expect the incident to last until 7.30pm and disruption to services is expected until 20:30.
"A train has broken down between Abergavenny and Hereford meaning services in the area are subject to disruption and will be cancelled or delayed."
Maintenance teams are in contact with the train crew and working to rectify the problem.
Real-time train running information for 5V42 1546 departure from Cardiff Central to Cardiff Canton Sidings on 02/05/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
Real-time train running information for 1V42 1230 departure from Manchester Piccadilly to Newport (South Wales) on 02/05/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
I was reminded of something that occurred to me recently - the Cambrian Coast Line also has some pull cord-operated level crossings (I know of the Barmouth and Porthmadog ones), and the 197/0e units also don't have the big opening windows right beside the driver that the 158s/Sprinters have.
Does that mean then that in a 197, when the driver stops at the pull cord, they have to get out of the seat, go to the cab door behind and (because the window is too small) open the door and reach out to pull the cord, and then close the door and get back into the seat (rather than, in a 158, simply reaching the pull cord from the seat through the window beside it
I tried a bit of experimenting today in a 197 cab. As with a 175, you can open the window from the drivers seat in a position from which you can also reach the controls, but it's very difficult to close the window or to reach out of it to operate the crossing. You could pull the seat all the way back and probably reach out ok that way, then pull it forward again, but if it was me I'd probably just get out and open the window or the cab door.
You should be able to reach the string from a standing position beside the window, they aren't that small, it's just you probably can't do that and be in a position to drive the train.
It'll be interesting to see what workaround the Cambrian crews come up with.
I haven't actually ridden on a 197 for a while, but I came across something at 1:17 in this video by SimOnTrains uploaded on Sun 26/4/26 (cropped still frame attached at the bottom of this post). The Passenger Information System screens (on 197046 in this case) appear to have had a "full-colour" graphic added, saying Croeso/Welcome with what looks like a FLIRT for some reason rather than a 197
I tried a bit of experimenting today in a 197 cab. As with a 175, you can open the window from the drivers seat in a position from which you can also reach the controls, but it's very difficult to close the window or to reach out of it to operate the crossing. You could pull the seat all the way back and probably reach out ok that way, then pull it forward again, but if it was me I'd probably just get out and open the window or the cab door.
You should be able to reach the string from a standing position beside the window, they aren't that small, it's just you probably can't do that and be in a position to drive the train.
It'll be interesting to see what workaround the Cambrian crews come up with.
Has there been any initial feedback from the crews doing the testing on the Cambrian? Any particular stretches of track they are riding badly on? They are a lot better on CWR, not sure how much of that there is on those lines. There’s a few curved sections that were quite prone to squealing when the 150s were first introduced.
I think it first came in a few months ago but has only appeared as each 197 gets a manual update, so some units won’t have received it until more recently and there may be some that still don’t show it.
They're LED-backlit LCD monitor-type screens and from my experience there has always been the odd one where not quite all of the backlight LEDs work unfortunately (I think that's what it is).
It will be interesting to see how long the screens in general last in the long term, because the white backlight LEDs of LED-backlit LCD monitor/TV screens are made from blue LEDs with a yellow coating on them, and when at high brightness like this, the yellow coating can wear off from the heat (if you've ever seen a screen where the picture has gone blue, that's why).
A fault I have experienced a few times is with the lock on the small toilet in the centre car of 3 car units. When attempting to move the lever into lock position they lever madly waggles back and for for a few seconds and then stops. Frightened the life out of me first time I experienced it. Happened yesterday on 110 - could hear it rattling back and for just after some poor chap went in shut the door! So that issue hasn't been solved.
A fault I have experienced a few times is with the lock on the small toilet in the centre car of 3 car units. When attempting to move the lever into lock position they lever madly waggles back and for for a few seconds and then stops. Frightened the life out of me first time I experienced it. Happened yesterday on 110 - could hear it rattling back and for just after some poor chap went in shut the door! So that issue hasn't been solved.
