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Arrival at Derby from Birmingham "via Leeds"?

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If a train is due to run Birmingham-Derby-Leeds, is there really no better description possible on the Derby arrivals board than "Birrningham via Leeds"?

The staff at Derby didn't think this at all confusing:

PXL_20260415_074006691.MP.JPG
 
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thenorthern

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Given there is only one route from Birmingham to Derby the arrival only needs to say Birmingham New Street as where the train is from.
 

The exile

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It looks like the via... description has migrated from the Departures board
Another example of some “clever wheeze” not being thought through properly. Interesting to see how long it will take to rectify.
 

Durradan

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Given there is only one route from Birmingham to Derby the arrival only needs to say Birmingham New Street as where the train is from.
There are Aberdeen to Glasgow Queen Street trains that have "via Perth" on the display despite that being the only direct route.
 

The exile

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There are Aberdeen to Glasgow Queen Street trains that have "via Perth" on the display despite that being the only direct route.
That is, however useful for people who are unfamiliar with routings and may not know that. The examples above are simply incorrect.
 

ainsworth74

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That is, however useful for people who are unfamiliar with routings and may not know that. The examples above are simply incorrect.
Yes it's often used, helpfully in my view, to help identify a major station that isn't the destination. I think, from memory, LNER to say Harrogate are advertised as "Via Leeds" at Kings Cross for example. Clearly on this occasion however it's deeply unhelpful!
 

The exile

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Yes it's often used, helpfully in my view, to help identify a major station that isn't the destination. I think, from memory, LNER to say Harrogate are advertised as "Via Leeds" at Kings Cross for example. Clearly on this occasion however it's deeply unhelpful!
The point is that it is not only unhelpful, it is untrue. Each time someone sees a message that they know is untrue the less likely they are to believe ones which are (and may be safety relevant).
 

godfreycomplex

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There are Aberdeen to Glasgow Queen Street trains that have "via Perth" on the display despite that being the only direct route.
More a problem going the other way but there has been many a Perth bound traveller caught out by accidentally boarding the one Dundee train that goes via Fife
 

Tetchytyke

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I’d love to see the departures board and what that shows.

If the arrival says it is from “Nottingham via Birmingham New Street” then that doesn’t really matter. But if it says the destination of the train is “Nottingham via Birmingham New Street” then everyone heading for Birmingham is going to be going the wrong way.
 

Wyrleybart

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Given there is only one route from Birmingham to Derby the arrival only needs to say Birmingham New Street as where the train is from.
Technically there are three other routes
Mainline
via Lichfield
via Leicester
via Castle Donington and rev

Similarly
From Derby. A colleague who lived in Derby was once travelling to work in Birmingham and got in the south end unit of the pair of voyagers which came off Central Rivers - knowing the south end unit would obviously be going to Birmingham. Except it was a Newcastle which was running via the Erewash due to Ambergate being closed !!! The northern unit was actually the one for Birmingham !!
 

mmh

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I wonder if arrivals boards aren't just an anachronism and the solution is to get rid of them.
 

Belperpete

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I wonder if arrivals boards aren't just an anachronism and the solution is to get rid of them.
Certainly that now at Euston is next to useless. It just shows where the trains are coming from, and their expected arrival time. No platform numbers. No indication of the scheduled arrival times. So if you are waiting for someone coming in on a train from Birmingham due in at a particular time, you can take your pick of the various trains coming from Birmingham around about that time - and even if you do guess the correct train, still be none the wiser which platform.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

I’d love to see the departures board and what that shows.
I suspect that each train has the same "via xxxx", where it would make sense.

It seems to be something that affects XC services. For services going north, it makes sense to tell passengers whether a train is going via Leeds or Doncaster - until the train gets to those places. Telling people at Leeds that a train is going via Leeds would be pointless. For southbound services I presume that at York for example, services are described as going vie Leeds or Doncaster, but after that the via is changed to via Birmingham, as shown at Derby.

So how is this via information stored, and changed on route? I presume that it must be in a separate field to the final destination? In which case, the obvious solution for the arrivals board is just to not display that field.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Given there is only one route from Birmingham to Derby the arrival only needs to say Birmingham New Street as where the train is from.
I think you misunderstand, so proving the OP's point. The trains shown as arriving "via Birmingham" haven't come from Birmingham at all - that is where they are headed to!

I should imagine that the station staff have just learnt to ignore the via information on the display.
 
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I should imagine that the station staff have just learnt to ignore the via information on the display.
The younger of the two staff members I spoke to at Derby appeared not to realise that Doncaster and Reading were in opposite directions (is there no basic Railway Geography training/testing?) The older staff member seemed to be of the opinion that it wasn't confusing because he knew what it meant.
 

Belperpete

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The younger of the two staff members I spoke to at Derby appeared not to realise that Doncaster and Reading were in opposite directions (is there no basic Railway Geography training/testing?) The older staff member seemed to be of the opinion that it wasn't confusing because he knew what it meant.
Have you raised a complaint to EMT? If no-one does, it's probably never going to be fixed.

I suspect that what has happened is that XC have changed the way their trains are encoded, without realising the effect it will have on EMT's arrivals board. And the EMT staff at Derby are just shrugging it off as a XC problem.

I raised a complaint with Chiltern that their "next train to" display at Marylebone was potentially very confusing. It slowly cycled through the next three trains, so at the time you looked at it, you might be looking at the second or third train, not the next. On my next visit, it had been fixed.
 

swt_passenger

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Have you raised a complaint to EMT? If no-one does, it's probably never going to be fixed.

I suspect that what has happened is that XC have changed the way their trains are encoded, without realising the effect it will have on EMT's arrivals board. And the EMT staff at Derby are just shrugging it off as a XC problem.
That’s what I wondered. If it’s a southbound XC early in its journey, ie north of York, it might make sense to deal with the via Leeds or via Doncaster option as the ‘route displayed’, as getting the wrong train is a hassle, but it’s going to be covered in the detailed calling points list anyway.
 
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Have you raised a complaint to EMT? If no-one does, it's probably never going to be fixed.
Good point - I have now done so. Previous experience of raising issues with EMR does not fill me with hope that they will take the trouble to understand the issue, let alone fix it - but perhaps this time will be different.
 
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rmHawk765

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Southbound Thameslink services are always displayed as 'via London St Pancras Int'l' (and almost certainly northbound trains though I've never payed attention) before the core despite that being the only passenger route. It is likely just for clarity as others have discussed here using other examples.

I'm not sure about other trains, but on GTR land the 'via' part isn't typically announced by the onboard PIS - I had to assure a group travelling from Finsbury to Hertford (unfamiliar with the typical routings) the other day that the Stevenage train went via Hertford, as the station boards were stuck at 'next train not stopping' due to an ECS being in the section and passing right before the Stevenage train arrived, and the train doesn't announce the stops until Palmers Green or Winchmore Hill. Seems to me like a silly oversight.

I wonder if arrivals boards aren't just an anachronism and the solution is to get rid of them.
I've never understood the point. I personally couldn't care less when my train arrives.
 

Belperpete

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I've never understood the point. I personally couldn't care less when my train arrives.
Back when I was younger, I often used to wait for my grandparents to arrive at Euston. The arrivals board was a godsend, as I told me how late their train was due in, and what platform to wait at.

If you are making a forward connection, knowing what time your train is likely to arrive is essential to working out what connections might be available. I regularly use the arrivals page on National Rail to see how late my train is going to be getting into New Street.
 

zwk500

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I wonder if arrivals boards aren't just an anachronism and the solution is to get rid of them.
They're not, although they are often not placed in the suitable position for where people should wait to meet people arriving off trains.

Arrivals boards are useful even with the modern plethora of apps and websites, especially when trains are running late (as is quite common with XC).
 

mmh

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They're not, although they are often not placed in the suitable position for where people should wait to meet people arriving off trains.

Arrivals boards are useful even with the modern plethora of apps and websites, especially when trains are running late (as is quite common with XC).
Useful to do what with the information on them though? I genuinely don't know what they're useful for. If you're meeting someone, "everyone" has a mobile phone nowadays so they'll let you know if they're delayed. It's mainly larger stations only which (sometimes) have an arrivals board, and they're more likely to have barriers or otherwise prevent you from access to the arrival platform to give assistance.

In the Euston example even if the arrivals board their gave full information, what is anybody going to do with that information?
 

The exile

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Useful to do what with the information on them though? I genuinely don't know what they're useful for. If you're meeting someone, "everyone" has a mobile phone nowadays so they'll let you know if they're delayed.
It is (or should be) the a business’s responsibility to provide information to the public in a way that does not rely on anyone being in possession of, or with the skill to use any device or technology (beyond things like glasses). I accept that smartphones are on the way to being in the same category, but we’re not there yet.
 

zwk500

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Useful to do what with the information on them though? I genuinely don't know what they're useful for. If you're meeting someone, "everyone" has a mobile phone nowadays so they'll let you know if they're delayed. It's mainly larger stations only which (sometimes) have an arrivals board, and they're more likely to have barriers or otherwise prevent you from access to the arrival platform to give assistance.
The person you're meeting may not know they're running late, or may be told it's only a few minutes so not mention it, or may have put their phone in their bag or pocket while getting ready to alight at their stop. Also, many people live a decent drive away from their nearest major station (especially if it's in a city centre with one-way traffic systems) and may choose not to connect their phone to their car so can't take a call. Most stations only give 20 mins free parking for pick up and drop off, so having an arrivals board visible from the pickup area lets people know if they will need to pay for parking (or leave and return in 10 mins time) rather than getting caught out by waiting for 22 mins because the train was just that little bit later.

Equally if you're waiting for somebody on foot then having an arrivals board tell you it's an extra 5 min wait lets you get a tea of coffee for you and the person you're meeting without asking somebody to guess how late they are (which they may well not know if the train hasn't stopped since Coventry, for example).

Regarding platforms, it depends on the station but knowing a platform number in advance can help you anticipate which side/set of barriers a person is most likely to come from (particularly Euston with 2 sets of 'main line' platforms). given that it costs 3 charachter spaces at maximum to display the platform number there's little point in not doing so, if you have a board.

It does seem to be a general social problem though that people assume that if they don't know/can't understand something then it's a problem with the 'thing' not with them.
 

Mcr Warrior

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Useful to do what with the information on them though? I genuinely don't know what they're useful for. If you're meeting someone, "everyone" has a mobile phone nowadays so they'll let you know if they're delayed. It's mainly larger stations only which (sometimes) have an arrivals board, and they're more likely to have barriers or otherwise prevent you from access to the arrival platform to give assistance.
Whatever next? Do away with all station departure boards as well on the basis that "everyone" has a mobile phone nowadays?! :s
 

duffield

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Useful to do what with the information on them though? I genuinely don't know what they're useful for. If you're meeting someone, "everyone" has a mobile phone nowadays so they'll let you know if they're delayed. It's mainly larger stations only which (sometimes) have an arrivals board, and they're more likely to have barriers or otherwise prevent you from access to the arrival platform to give assistance.

In the Euston example even if the arrivals board their gave full information, what is anybody going to do with that information?
Even if you assume "everyone" has a mobile phone (they don't, of course), mobile coverage is pretty patchy on the rail network, and often non-existent when you are in some of the black spots for congestion delays, such as the approach through a city to a major station.

You can easily be stuck in a cutting or tunnel with no signal for extended periods. This has happened to me more than once on the approach to Birmingham New Street for example, which is very frustrating since I couldn't (for example) use Traksy to see what was going on ahead (and the P.A. system was inaudible) and wouldn't have been able to contact anyone who might have been waiting for me anyhow.

It's true that arrival screens are only typically useful to the "meeter" if they are outside the barrier and display more than just "delayed" but that's an argument for improving their siting and content, not removing them. Ideally this information should be shown in places like the station cafe or pub so the "meeter" can relax in there until the train arrives, instead of standing staring at the boards.
 
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I wrote the post first, and added the photo later. In the mean time, "Birmingham via Leeds" had scrolled off the screen. But "Reading via Doncaster" shown as due 08:59 is just as daft.
 

MCR247

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Where does it say 'Birmingham via Leeds'?
I wrote the post first, and added the photo later. In the mean time, "Birmingham via Leeds" had scrolled off the screen. But "Reading via Doncaster" shown as due 08:59 is just as daft.
And whilst it doesn’t say Birmingham via Leeds, every single ‘via’ point shown in the image is wrong due to the issue the OP describes.

EMR should just remove via points from the arrival screen. They probably didn’t think to do it from the start as I’m not sure if any of their own services at Derby use via points in the CIS.
 

CHobbs

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If a train is due to run Birmingham-Derby-Leeds, is there really no better description possible on the Derby arrivals board than "Birrningham via Leeds"?

The staff at Derby didn't think this at all confusing:

View attachment 202512
The whole ‘via…’ is quite unnecessarily unless there is more than one route. It’s ok for
‘Via Birmingham New St’ for Glasgow to Euston - or ‘via Northampton’ for New St to Euston- n
 
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