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Least disappointing new Rolling Stock?

Pigeon

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Joined
8 Apr 2015
Messages
1,123
I've never got the enthusiasm for ex-BR LHCS. Most of it was decidedly poor compared to its European contemporaries, often with an iffy ride (bounce on Mk2, sway on Mk3, particularly short swing-link versions), poor air conditioning and manual doors as well as absolutely terrible seats.

My enthusiasm for Mk 2s and Mk 3s is because I consider those points to be either false or beneficial (ignoring the bit about "European contemporaries" because I've never been on any).

Never found anything to complain about in the ride of either Mk 2s or Mk 3s - yes the latter did sway a bit, but it was never objectionable, and they were vastly better than a contemporary DMU.
Nor did I notice anything wrong with the air conditioning apart from its mere presence once it arrived; the early Mk 2s were preferable because they did not have it.
Manual doors are a definite point in their favour. Sliding doors may be supposed to look all Star Trek, but they don't behave like Star Trek - Kirk can stride through the doors at normal speed without checking his pace because the doors move quickly and get out of his way; he doesn't have to wait for a button to become pressable and then wait for it to register that it has been pressed and then wait for a geriatric hamster to stagger round its wheel to operate the mechanism without even the benefit of any amphetamine in its water bottle. The machine should be the servant, not the master.
Seats are excellent. Particularly on the Mk 2s which have the best seats for a 2+2 open ever, and all perfectly aligned with the nice big windows too.

And as well as all that, they were usually provided in rakes of decent length. It took a while for the rot that set in with the HSTs to become general. Outside of busy periods where overcrowding was inevitable, it was much easier to choose a decent seat not too close to other passengers, and the general ambience was much less oppressive.

I just find sitting bolt upright on the 730's very very uncomfortable!

Seat designers ought to throw away those nice neat diagrams they are so fond of which show silhouettes of human forms sitting militarily to attention in outlines of train seats, and instead pin up on their walls photos of real people sitting in a real row of seats, one which doesn't have another row of seats directly in front of it. Perhaps then they might get the idea not to design seats that are only comfortable if you're an Action Man with no legs.
 
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Bletchleyite

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20 Oct 2014
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Seats are excellent. Particularly on the Mk 2s which have the best seats for a 2+2 open ever, and all perfectly aligned with the nice big windows too.

Agree on window alignment. The actual seats though less so, no centre armrest and wings too low down so I had to slouch (and thus play kneesie with people opposite).

And as well as all that, they were usually provided in rakes of decent length. It took a while for the rot that set in with the HSTs to become general. Outside of busy periods where overcrowding was inevitable, it was much easier to choose a decent seat not too close to other passengers, and the general ambience was much less oppressive.

I'd probably agree on the UK's thing about short trains, though it seems less the case now with 11 car Pendolinos (as long as most of those Mk2 rakes) and 240m EMU formations now common down South, and mostly on frequent services in comparison with back then. XC and TPE WCML are still suffering though...

Seat designers ought to throw away those nice neat diagrams they are so fond of which show silhouettes of human forms sitting militarily to attention in outlines of train seats, and instead pin up on their walls photos of real people sitting in a real row of seats, one which doesn't have another row of seats directly in front of it. Perhaps then they might get the idea not to design seats that are only comfortable if you're an Action Man with no legs.

The latest generation of stock tends to have better, not worse, legroom than before, though there was a bad period between roughly the Class 15x and the Pendolino in which things were a bit tight. The Mk3 though, in the 76 seat configuration, was pretty horrible - the pitch was nominally decent, but the seat backs were about 4-5" thick and the triangular table supports and magazine net screws were exactly where my knees went, plus the armrests forced my knees straight forward (not a comfortable sitting position for most males :) ) so it was pretty grim unless I got a table with nobody opposite. The refurbs with different seats were generally better in my eyes, but then some of them ruined the lighting (which was too bright to start with) so I didn't really find any perfect.

I might be in a minority, but even with the Fainsa Sophia I'd take a bog standard 80x over a Mk3 purely because of all the space and luggage provision (the Mk3's overheads were a bit small too). And the Avanti ones which fitted a better seat and a warmer lighting colour I really quite like. The 810s aren't bad either but the legroom is a bit tight due to trying to fit the same number of seats into the shorter body and due to their thicker backs than the Sophia etc.
 

DannyMich2018

Member
Joined
19 Dec 2018
Messages
932
Yesterday had only my 2nd trip on a WMR 196 from Nuneaton to Leamington Spa.
Certainly not bad units, seats were okay, ride pretty good on this stretch of line, lighting not too bright, toilet ok, seat to window alignment excellent, door opening closing times good with quick dwell times, excellent acceleration, we did sit in Priority seats so can't comment on leg room in seats. All in all, pretty good units! Managed to find the bin too (they're tiny!)
 

InTheEastMids

Established Member
Joined
31 Jan 2016
Messages
1,382
810s are a unit I really like. Though I'm not sure if it's because they're just that good, or because I hate Voyagers that much!
Going back to the point of the thread, it isn't about the "best" or "my favourite", but "least disappointing", i.e. a train that exceeded expectations in a positive way.

So, having had my expectations taken on a Journey to the Centre of the Earth by GWR 80x, the 810s are definitely one of the "least disappointing" trains out there.
 

Mikey C

Established Member
Joined
11 Feb 2013
Messages
8,228
I finally had my first ride on a 701 today. When compared to the 707s (and 700s, 717s), they feel much the same, but a bit better. The seats are nicer for a start, and I don't like the door pockets of the Desiro Cities (and 376s, 378s) as they make the interior look far more cluttered and dark. Plus they have a better window design.
 

Arriva Fan

Member
Joined
14 May 2018
Messages
163
I think the 380 is the best modern Unit.

Comfortable, fast, look good and reliable.
 

gingerheid

Established Member
Joined
2 Apr 2006
Messages
1,714
Flirts, Flirts and Flirts. Would happily travel London to Scotland in any of them, and certainly rather than a Pendo, IET or Voyager!
 

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