UK switching to electric vehicles discussion

[AM9]

These levers will have to be paid for one day. Probably by all of us.

So will the environmental and ultimately health cost of continuing to burn hydrocarbons. Not by my generation, - but our grandchildren, "but that's someone else's problem so I'm OK".

On balance I would expect a BEV (battery electric vehicle) to be cheaper to buy and look after than an ICE (internal combustion engine). The only reason for a bigger cost is if battery technology were to not come down in price. I also assume the higher cost of a BEV has been because of development costs and start up costs of manufacturing/assembly-lines.

I think it is more: 'were to suddenly stop the current fall in prices'

One cost to bear in mind is a cost on usage. There was always going to be a tax for BEVs. There has to be as a huge amount of revenue comes to the government from ICEs in the form of road tax and fuel tax. It has been mentioned up thread anyway but I just remind here.
One think I can see for the future is a road pricing model or just huge road tax for BEVs but also applied to ICE to further price ICEs off the roads. That will perhaps happen as ICE users become a minority. Then again older vehicles (40 years plus) are currently exempt from road tax - if they form a small enough minority then the government will not bother with the potential tax revenue from them.

I agree that charge by usage will probably come in some form or another, but the pollution element of ICE motoring is an additional burden on society so will probably remain to increase the pressure to change. Then there's the cost of fuel to the user that is in part determined by global pricing, and as a retail add on cost by the volume of crude imported, refined, transported and dispensed at the pump. A diminished demand increases all of those costs against an even increasing capacity to deliver electric energy at lowering costs.

 

[The Ham]

you have to remember the US is well behind most western (and some non-western) countries

Some might have stopped the sentence there.

..in terms of EV sales as a percentage of the total.

Although, I was slightly surprised at how high up the table we are.

 

[sprunt]

Charging doesn't have to be expensive, you've chosen one of the most expensive operators. I've given you three examples (off the top of my head, without even researching a little) that are half that!

It seems a little disingenuous to discount supermarket charging when a number of EV advocates in this thread have made comments along the lines of "Don't worry about charging, you can just plug in while you do your shopping."

 

[E27007]

It seems a little disingenuous to discount supermarket charging when a number of EV advocates in this thread have made comments along the lines of "Don't worry about charging, you can just plug in while you do your shopping."

I think it is also disingenuous of ZEV users claim the EV public charging network will expand to meet demand, from the viewpoint of a supplier, when supply of charging points is less than demand, then consumers compete for access to chargers,and the supplier may charge a premium for supply of electricity

 

[Noddy]

Some might have stopped the sentence there.

Although, I was slightly surprised at how high up the table we are.

I can of course swap some of the countries about and then we don’t look so good:





What is interesting is some countries where you might not expect it such as Uruguay are rapidly transitioning to EVs. The following graph is taken from this CleanTechnica report: https://cleantechnica.com/2026/02/0...es-report-over-100000-units-sold-in-q4/?amp=1



And Uruguays electricity grid generation is well over 90% renewable as well.

 

[Mawkie]

It seems a little disingenuous to discount supermarket charging when a number of EV advocates in this thread have made comments along the lines of "Don't worry about charging, you can just plug in while you do your shopping."

Except I also said:

However, if you charge 90% of the time at home, then the occasional top up at 70p isn't that bad in the big scheme of things.

There is (quite rightly) a discussion to be had that public charging is too expensive, however even at its most expensive, public charging is similar to the price of petrol. The argument seems to be "Some people can charge cheaper at home and I can't so it's not fair."

I've heard some people saying it's complicated to search for the cheapest charging stations. It isn't. Is a single click on Zap Map. Is this any different to understanding that Shell will sell more expensive petrol than Asda? And that both will be cheaper than a motorway service station.

People make lots of choices when selecting a vehicle - certainly if someone chooses V6, V8, and even V12 engines then the cost of your fuel is not your primary concern. Why is there a double standard for EVs? For some people, they will like the smoothness, the lack of maintenance, the ease of use, the technology, or the perceived eco credentials, and one of those may be more of a concern than the price of the electricity.

 

[N1]

HMRC to appeal to keep 20% VAT on public chargers UK to appeal against tax ruling cutting VAT on public electric car chargers to 5%

 

[Bald Rick]

I think the danger is that quite a few people will see the charging costs at Sainsburys when they visit for their shopping and make the assumption that the normal cost of charging is around what they see there.

If anyone is using a single reference point for something like this, then I’m afraid they are being thick. It’s broadly the same as using service station petrol prices as the normal price for all petrol.

Great stuff, thanks @Noddy
Norway's pole-position doesn't surprise me; latter November 2025 my wife and I were in 'n' around Tromso (above Arctic Circle) - EV use was widespread, moreso than ICE.

Norway has had big incentives for EV adoption (now much reduced, as the job is largely done), and also lots of cheap hydropower.

And Uruguays electricity grid generation is well over 90% renewable as well.

Almost certainly a contributory factor to the EV uptake.

 

[sprunt]

If anyone is using a single reference point for something like this, then I’m afraid they are being thick. It’s broadly the same as using service station petrol prices as the normal price for all petrol.

But that is a reference point that people in this thread saying that they can't charge at home have been specifically recommended. "Oh, you can just charge while you're doing your shopping!"

 

[Bald Rick]

But that is a reference point that people in this thread saying that they can't charge at home have been specifically recommended. "Oh, you can just charge while you're doing your shopping!"

Well you can. Similarly you can refuel at a Welcome break. That doesn’t mean that is the only option, and thus one supermarket / service station brand becomes the reference point for all charging / filling up.

 

[brad465]

If mass produced, replicated and made more affordable, this changes everything:

https://giftarticle.ft.com/giftarticle/actions/redeem/e36e20be-e2df-4c5e-832e-cd77050bccc9

https://www.ft.com/content/1773de37-2595-4d9f-9536-dbe03ff1f8d3?syn-25a6b1a6=1

CATL has developed a battery capable of allowing an electric vehicle to drive 1,500km on a single charge, the Chinese group claimed on Tuesday, as it challenges BYD for supremacy on range and charging speed.

 

[The Ham]

If mass produced, replicated and made more affordable, this changes everything:

https://giftarticle.ft.com/giftarticle/actions/redeem/e36e20be-e2df-4c5e-832e-cd77050bccc9

https://www.ft.com/content/1773de37-2595-4d9f-9536-dbe03ff1f8d3?syn-25a6b1a6=1

For a lot of people that's potentially once a month charging, that puts it into the realm of potentially able to charge at a friend or family member's home for those who can't charge at home themselves.

It's no longer going to be the student coming home to get their washing done, but rather to change the car.

 

[birchesgreen]

With my mileage thats needing to charge every 2-3 months lol

 

[jon0844]

With my mileage thats needing to charge every 2-3 months lol

The majority of people really don't need a car with such a long range, where you are carrying around a heavier battery for 95% of the time for that 5% of the time where you want to do a mammoth journey with no stopping.

Faster charging on a smaller battery (something BYD is also doing) makes more sense for most people I'd say.

The UK and most of Europe have very good charging networks. I accept some countries don't, although I'd put the USA in that camp - but BYD isn't likely to be making lots of sales there anytime soon.

 

[birchesgreen]

Yeah i think having too much range could be a drawback, a smaller battery you only need to charge weekly or bi-weekly would be better. But the tech will be a gamechanger in general though. Certainly would be good for battery multiple units...

 

[miami]

We've discussed the cost of vehicles extensively on here, including posts just yesterday.

Used Nissan Leafs are £1500.

Kia Neros are £6k.

Teslas are £10k.

There is a single nissan leaf on sale in autotrader for £1500 or less, and like all leafs of that era is terrible on the battery.

For a non-known-problem Leaf, the cheapest one I saw is £2k and says:

"Note = currently issue with charging port not charging"

The only Kias for under £6500 are Souls with 100mile ranges

In 5 years time there should be some decent electric cars on the second hand market, but not yet.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In 5 years time there should be some decent electric cars on the second hand market, but not yet.

Depends how old you want. For those who buy 2-3 years old as I do there's plenty, and my next car will be such an EV (petrol at present).

If you want "bangernomics" natually you'll need to wait longer.

 

[Mawkie]

There is a single nissan leaf on sale in autotrader for £1500 or less, and like all leafs of that era is terrible on the battery.

For a non-known-problem Leaf, the cheapest one I saw is £2k and says:

"Note = currently issue with charging port not charging"

The only Kias for under £6500 are Souls with 100mile ranges

In 5 years time there should be some decent electric cars on the second hand market, but not yet.

And yet...

Description​

Selling my nissan leaf which i have had since 2022 as my commuting car. Have just retired so no longer need it and will be upgrading to an EV with longer range. It has been a very reliable and cheap car to run and now has 7 bars on the battery life giving 50-55 miles range. Just had 12v battery replaced, both keys rebuilt and relays replaced in fuse box. Main battery is owned. It's in very clean condition with some slight marks on body work but very minor and no dents or bumps. MOT to end Sept.

Vehicle registered: 08/07/2013

No known problems with any of them listed.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Well you can. Similarly you can refuel at a Welcome break. That doesn’t mean that is the only option, and thus one supermarket / service station brand becomes the reference point for all charging / filling up.

I feel a supermarket is the most likely place a prospective EV owner is going to encounter charging prices. If that puts them off I suspect there will be a proportion that will not dig deeper.

If mass produced, replicated and made more affordable, this changes everything:

https://giftarticle.ft.com/giftarticle/actions/redeem/e36e20be-e2df-4c5e-832e-cd77050bccc9

https://www.ft.com/content/1773de37-2595-4d9f-9536-dbe03ff1f8d3?syn-25a6b1a6=1

Now if battery tech heads that way I would be keen on a smaller + lighter battery with a smaller range.

And yet... View attachment 202864

View attachment 202862View attachment 202863
No known problems with any of them listed.

Nice little runabout for someone in London. Just depends how the battery range lasts over the ensuing years.

 

[E27007]

HMRC to appeal to keep 20% VAT on public chargers UK to appeal against tax ruling cutting VAT on public electric car chargers to 5%

Both petrol for ice cars and charge for the battery of an ZEV are defined in economics as distress purchases, you would rather not but you must for obvious reasons. So if HMRC do not win the appeal and VAT is cut from 20% to 5%, will the suppliers of public chargers pass on the price reduction to the user?

 

[PeterC]

I feel a supermarket is the most likely place a prospective EV owner is going to encounter charging prices. If that puts them off I suspect there will be a proportion that will not dig deeper.

Especially as an ICE driver will associate supermarkets with cheap fuel.

 

[Welly]

Does the older Nissan Leaf use a connector that is not the widely used CSS2 connector?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Especially as an ICE driver will associate supermarkets with cheap fuel.

Very true.

 

[N1]

Does the older Nissan Leaf use a connector that is not the widely used CSS2 connector?

Yes it uses CHAdeMO. It is not widely used in Europe, where CSS2 connector is standard. CHAdeMO is effectively the standard in Japan.

There is a CCS to CHAdeMO adaptor available now.

Although GB/T connector (Chinese one) is probably more prevalent than CCS worldwide.

 

[The Ham]

Depends how old you want. For those who buy 2-3 years old as I do there's plenty, and my next car will be such an EV (petrol at present).

If you want "bangernomics" natually you'll need to wait longer.

It does depend on the milage you do.

For someone able to charge at home (even on a standard 30p day rate) vs a petrol cars able to deliver 50mpg and paying 155p per litre would see a 4p per mile saving on fuel.

That's £200 per 5,000 miles travelled (which is likely to easily be the annual milage of a lot of people). For someone owning a car for 5 years, that's an extra £1,000 which could be used to buy a car.

That could be the difference between a £1,500 ICE vs £2,500 EV and other than the battery there's potential for less to go wrong.

 

[miami]

That could be the difference between a £1,500 ICE vs £2,500 EV and other than the battery there's potential for less to go wrong.

Except in 2 years time that saving will be down to 1p a mile as the 3p/mile electric vehicle tax comes in

And petrol is dropping - 148p yesterday round here

So overall about the same cost.

Then there's the tax. VED for an electric vehicle from after 2017 is £200 a year, far more than a cheap petrol car at £20 a year VED.

 

[jon0844]

Autocar reporting that the new Smart Fortwo will be unveiled at the Paris motor show in October and offer a range of 186 miles and 10-80% charging in 20 minutes. It's only 10cm longer than the old Fortwo model.

If the price is right (expect a premium) then this will be yet another great city car that can do long trips if needed, thanks to fast charging.

I mean, I know this thread seems to be about cars costing peanuts, but some people have the money to buy premium models and the Smart car brand is like the Apple of small cars.

Source: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/...wo-returns-premium-city-car-ev-186-mile-range

Image is a concept model.

 

[AM9]

Except in 2 years time that saving will be down to 1p a mile as the 3p/mile electric vehicle tax comes in

And petrol is dropping - 148p yesterday round here

So overall about the same cost.

Then there's the tax. VED for an electric vehicle from after 2017 is £200 a year, far more than a cheap petrol car at £20 a year VED.

All these predictions based on the current (or recent) price of petrol being an indicator of the relative EV vs ICE costs of ownership are making a potential fallacious assumption. There's no guarantee that petrol prices will fall any more, - nor even stay as somewhere near current prices. By 2030, we could be looking at a rising cost both through higher distribution costs of smaller quantities and raised government tax/duty to encourage a faster decline of hydrocarbon burning in road transport.

 

[birchesgreen]

The new Smart Car EV could be good, my sister in law had the previous one for awhile, loved it apart from the range being too short. This new one should solve that problem.

 

[jon0844]

At 3pm today we were using just 1.1% gas on the grid (plus some biofuel). I think it's fair to say as we keep installing more solar, wind and batteries - it will make electricity even cheaper. Plus of course people can generate electricity at home. Today has been a very good day and I could have charged my car almost from empty to full with what the sun has 'produced'.