Ffestiniog Round Robin advice, please!

[Djgr]

I think most people don't realise that since the Ffestiniog Railway turned into an experience, there are generally only one or two departures a day to/from Blaenau.

Even in the height of summer, I can't see a day with more than three. (Someone prove me wrong!)

Clearly that has fairly obvious implications for Round Robins, if you are trying to factor in possible delays somewhere on your journey.

 

[Jan Mayen]

Perhaps the validity could be changed to allow an overnight break somewhere on route. Has it always been valid for one day only?

 

[Djgr]

Perhaps the validity could be changed to allow an overnight break somewhere on route. Has it always been valid for one day only?

To my knowledge, it has always been one day.

In terms of planning, I would always work around the weak link and ideally arrive on the train before this connection.

Obviously for many the Ffestiniog would be the highlight, but if it all went pear shaped there are regular buses (at a small extra charge-different cap arrangements in Wales) between one end and the other.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In terms of planning, I would always work around the weak link and ideally arrive on the train before this connection.

The problem there is spending over 3 hours in Blaenau Ffestiniog, which unless walking is your thing really has nothing to do for that length of time. There's a decent cafe opposite and used to be a decent pub in the hotel (burnt down) but it's really not much of a place to spend time in.

Unless obsessive about a ride on the FfR itself I'd cut it finer and just take the bus if you miss it. It's a scenic enough bus ride.

 

[Djgr]

The problem there is spending over 3 hours in Blaenau Ffestiniog, which unless walking is your thing really has nothing to do for that length of time. There's a decent cafe opposite and used to be a decent pub in the hotel (burnt down) but it's really not much of a place to spend time in.

Unless obsessive about a ride on the FfR itself I'd cut it finer and just take the bus if you miss it. It's a scenic enough bus ride.

Porthmadog is a much better place to spend some time

 

[Bletchleyite]

Porthmadog is a much better place to spend some time

It is, but I personally think the whole circuit is better done Coast first. Emerging from Blaenau tunnel is just such an experience that's a reason on its own, and also it means the less interesting bit (across from Mach to Shrewsbury) is later on when you're getting bored/tired/it's getting dark (if it's winter).

 

[Haywain]

It is, but I personally think the whole circuit is better done Coast first. Emerging from Blaenau tunnel is just such an experience that's a reason on its own, and also it means the less interesting bit (across from Mach to Shrewsbury) is later on when you're getting bored/tired/it's getting dark (if it's winter).

The other side of that is that if you want to hear the steam loco on the FR doing some real work, you need to be going from Porthmadog uphill to Blaenau.

 

[TrainTraveler]

The Ffestiniog timetable ( https://www.festrail.co.uk/pdf/summary-tt-2026.pdf ) and the train to Llandudno Junction ( https://www.traveline.cymru/uploads/Conwy Valley 11-2.pdf ) really don't join up very well.

When I did it I would have liked to have done the Ffestiniog "uphill" but there was a limit to how long I could spend in Blaenau Ffestiniog.

 

[matt]

I'm looking at doing this from Birmingham soon. Is it the ticket only valid of TFW services or any TOCs on the route?

 

[Djgr]

I'm looking at doing this from Birmingham soon. Is it the ticket only valid of TFW services or any TOCs on the route?

Well looking at the map and the T and Cs, it says that you can only use non-TFW on the connecting services to start the Round Robin.

That would appear to rule out Avanti services Crewe to Llandudno Jct.

 

[matt]

Well looking at the map and the T and Cs, it says that you can only use non-TFW on the connecting services to start the Round Robin.

That would appear to rule out Avanti services Crewe to Llandudno Jct.

So would be OK on LNR Crewe to Birmingham then

 

[Djgr]

So would be OK on LNR Crewe to Birmingham then

Well the map shows that from Birmingham you have to go Birmingham-Wolverhampton-Shrewsbury both ways (on any TOC though FWIW)

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Well the map shows that from Birmingham you have to go Birmingham-Wolverhampton-Shrewsbury both ways (on any TOC though FWIW)

So, not via Birmingham-Wolverhampton-Stafford-Crewe also?

 

[Belperpete]

I think most people don't realise that since the Ffestiniog Railway turned into an experience, there are generally only one or two departures a day to/from Blaenau.

Even in the height of summer, I can't see a day with more than three. (Someone prove me wrong!)

Clearly that has fairly obvious implications for Round Robins, if you are trying to factor in possible delays somewhere on your journey.

That is correct. However, pre-covid when there were more services to Blaenau, very few of them made good connections. And unfortunately some of those that did, often ran near empty in one direction or the other many days.

Nowadays, there is the Quarryman service, that starts and finishes at Blaenau, and is timed specifically to connect off the morning Conwy Valley train, and connect back onto the Conwy Valley service on its return to Blaenau. As this service is specifically designed to connect. it is probably the best option for those doing the round robin. There are also the services that start from Porthmadog, one or two a day depending on demand.

However, everything is likely to change next year when the Conwy Valley timetable changes. It doesn't look to be good news for those wanting to travel to and from Blaenau, as the proposed timings seem to be aimed more around the Bettws market. Which is understandable, as most times the Conwy Valley trains empty out there.

 

[Llanigraham]

One of the journeys on my bucket list, but I'm trying to work out a way of doing it from Caersws, and in which direction.
And it would need to be around 0800 as the earlier trains are often cancelled.

 

[Djgr]

So, not via Birmingham-Wolverhampton-Stafford-Crewe also?

That's my interpretation. Perhaps others have had experience of using the ticket from Birmingham?

 

[Krokodil]

However, everything is likely to change next year when the Conwy Valley timetable changes. It doesn't look to be good news for those wanting to travel to and from Blaenau, as the proposed timings seem to be aimed more around the Bettws market. Which is understandable, as most times the Conwy Valley trains empty out there.

I'd wait to see what the FR does next year. The new timetable may well be easier for them to align with their needs.

 

[Llandudno]

I'd wait to see what the FR does next year. The new timetable may well be easier for them to align with their needs.

Has the 2027 Conwy Valley Line timetable been more or less signed off?
Is there a proof timetable you could post on here?

 

[Krokodil]

Has the 2027 Conwy Valley Line timetable been more or less signed off?
Is there a proof timetable you could post on here?

Nothing final that I've seen just yet. The proposed one was in the consultation here:

Conwy Valley December 2026 Timetable - Engagement

Transport for Wales is seeking feedback from passengers and stakeholders on a proposed new train timetable for the Conwy Valley line, with changes planned to take effect from December 2026. We are keen to understand whether the revised timetable meets the needs of

haveyoursay.tfw.wales

No idea how similar the final one will be to the draft.

 

[Ben Rhydding]

Today I purchased a Ffestiniog Round Robin for Thursday 11th, valid from Manchester, at New Pudsey station. Following the advice in post 2, I quoted J293 and the ticket materialised with no problem. Without this code, it might have been difficult. The ticket is in two parts. "Manchester Stations to Ffestiniog Round Robin valid via any permitted route". And vice versa.

The tickets carry no TfW only restriction. So outbound (anti clockwise), it must be valid on Northern from Manchester Victoria to Chester which could be more convenient than TfW from Piccadilly.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Isn't its validity with Transport for Wales, Ffestiniog Railway (single journey only) + any other operator's connecting services?

 

[anothertyke]

My memory is that the map does not show Man Vic. Does the ticket say Manchester Piccadilly or Manchester Stations?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

My memory is that the map does not show Man Vic. Does the ticket say Manchester Piccadilly or Manchester Stations?

The map on TfW's website just says Manchester Piccadilly. However, presume Manchester Oxford Road is also included?

https://tfw.wales/sites/default/files/2026-03/Ffestiniog-Round-Robin-V3_ENG-2026.pdf

 

[Ben Rhydding]

My memory is that the map does not show Man Vic. Does the ticket say Manchester Piccadilly or Manchester Stations?

Please read post 110

 

[anothertyke]

Please read post 110

Apologies, in that case I agree with you.Hope it all works next Thurs.

 

[Belperpete]

Today I purchased a Ffestiniog Round Robin for Thursday 11th, valid from Manchester, at New Pudsey station. Following the advice in post 2, I quoted J293 and the ticket materialised with no problem. Without this code, it might have been difficult. The ticket is in two parts. "Manchester Stations to Ffestiniog Round Robin valid via any permitted route". And vice versa.

The tickets carry no TfW only restriction. So outbound (anti clockwise), it must be valid on Northern from Manchester Victoria to Chester which could be more convenient than TfW from Piccadilly.

I don't understand your assumption that "it must be valid....". Why must it? It says any permitted route, so I suppose the question is, what routes are permitted with that particular ticket?

The TfW publicity seems to be clear that it is only valid on TfW services, so I suspect that you would be chancing it by travelling on Northern.

 

[alistairlees]

I don't understand your assumption that "it must be valid....". Why must it? It says any permitted route, so I suppose the question is, what routes are permitted with that particular ticket?

The TfW publicity seems to be clear that it is only valid on TfW services, so I suspect that you would be chancing it by travelling on Northern.

The map at https://tfw.wales/sites/default/files/2026-03/Ffestiniog-Round-Robin-V3_ENG-2026.pdf shows valid routes from Liverpool to Bidston, Warrington to Crewe and Stockport to Chester, none of which have any TfW services.

 

[TrainTraveler]

I would say that the ticket wasn't valid from Manchester Victoria (even though it says "Manchester Stations") as the TfW map doesn't show Victoria.

Ffestiniog Round Robin | Transport for Wales

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

tfw.wales

https://tfw.wales/sites/default/files/2026-03/Ffestiniog-Round-Robin-V3_ENG-2026.pdf (newer map from link above substituted)

I don't read the TfW website as restricting travel from Manchester to TfW trains but it does say (from Manchester etc.) "using designated geographical routes" which I take as being the dotted lines on the map.

 

[Belperpete]

I would say that the ticket wasn't valid from Manchester Victoria (even though it says "Manchester Stations") as the TfW map doesn't show Victoria.

Ffestiniog Round Robin | Transport for Wales

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

tfw.wales

https://tfw.wales/sites/default/files/2026-03/Ffestiniog-Round-Robin-V3_ENG-2026.pdf (newer map from link above substituted)

I don't read the TfW website as restricting travel from Manchester to TfW trains but it does say (from Manchester etc.) "using designated geographical routes" which I take as being the dotted lines on the map.

The key to that map says "valid on these routes on the Transport for Wales network". The critical bit being that I have highlighted. It is clear that by "network" they mean services, as in the key for the thin black line that says "Other services not operated by the Transport for Wales network".

Likewise my understanding is that the round robin is only valid on TfW services between Chester and Bangor, not Avanti services.

I would argue that the ticket is valid from Victoria, provided that you walk from there to Piccadilly and catch a TfW train from there!

 

[Watershed]

The key to that map says "valid on these routes on the Transport for Wales network". The critical bit being that I have highlighted. It is clear that by "network" they mean services, as in the key for the thin black line that says "Other services not operated by the Transport for Wales network".

Likewise my understanding is that the round robin is only valid on TfW services between Chester and Bangor, not Avanti services.

I would argue that the ticket is valid from Victoria, provided that you walk from there to Piccadilly and catch a TfW train from there!

How do you explain the inclusion of Liverpool to Bidston, Warrington to Crewe and Stockport to Chester?