Ffestiniog Round Robin advice, please!

[jmhilde]

Hello! Four of us will be visiting Wales in May and are hoping to spend a day doing the Ffestiniog Round Robin route. We'll (eventually) have the Round Robin ticket from TfW as well as Senior Railcards. We're looking at a morning start on either Friday 22 May or Saturday 23 May, leaving from either Llandudno Junction or Betws-y-Coed, heading anti-clockwise. We have the whole day and look forward to hopping on/off on occasion. Hoping for some planning advice!

1) I'm not seeing online reservations available for one-way Blaenau Ffestiniog Rail tix. How do we reserve our seats? I'm reading BF keeps a coach open for walk-ups but that makes me a tad nervous. Is there any way to actually reserve seats ahead of time?
2) If yes, can we upgrade that one-way journey to BF's gold class?
3) Are Round Robin tix only available in-person at a rail station? Any way to buy those online?
4) Is there day parking available at Llandudno Junction and/or Betws-y-Coed station?
5) Do we need to make reservations for the rest of the Round Robin sections or can we just board anytime?

Cheers, all! Much appreciated!

 

[gazthomas]

@jmhilde welcome from the forum.

I live locally and I have done it many times in recent years. My answers:

1. Give the Ffestiniog Railway office a call to reserve, ideally the day before (you don't have to have bought your Round Robin. tickets until the day). On arrival at Blaenau or Porthmadog (at the latter you check in) you can find out which carriage and seats have been allocated to your party.

2. This is not something I've done, though I guess you can ask the railway when you call them in point 1.

3. At station or on train but not online. You can buy in advance. Llandudno Junction is the best option locally to do so.

If you leave it to on train it can be bandy to have this page open your phone as it includes the ticket code to help the Guard find the ticket on their portable ticket machine if they're not familiar with the ticket.

http://www.railrover.org/pages/ffestiniog-round-robin.html (link to Rail Rover website)

4. There is a railway owned car park at Llandudno Junction station and a council car park opposite Betws Y Coed station, both chargeable. The one at the Junction is quite small though within a couple of hundred metres you have free on street parking. This isn't really an option at Betws as the street I would try and park on that leads to the Conwy Valley Railway Museum and shop is currently closed while the footbridge that crosses the River Conwy is replaced. As your trip coincides with a Bank Holiday the car park in Betws night be busy, but there are other pay and display options in the village too.

5. Board anytime. Transport for Wales services don't have reservations. You need to be disciplined on the day as you really don't have much flexibility as to which trains you can get.

Having done the trip both ways I would recommend going clock-wise as the connection at Blaenau is quite tight. I've been late heading down the valley before and I've called the Ffestiniog Railway to ask them to hold the train and they did. I've also had failures on the Ffestiniog Railway that has meant I missed my train at Blaenau back up the valley and in that instance they provided two taxis (as there were 6 of us) back to Llandudno Junction.

If you go clockwise, especially on the Friday you can get the nice loco hauled train from Llandudno Junction to Shrewsbury, get a coffee then have a nice run up the Cambrian. You also have the benefit of at least 75 minutes to get lunch and then cross Porthmadog for your connection (about a 10 minute flat walk). Psychologically for me you're also "there" while going anti-clockwise you have a long trip home.

Another reason for going clockwise is that you'll be going up the Ffestiniog to Blaenau which is more impressive as the steam locomotive works harder.

The anti-clockwise run does avoid a long break in Blaenau Ffestiniog at the end of the day though!

A trip report I wrote for an anti-clockwise run can be found here: http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nw2308b.htm (link to article on the North Wales Coast Railway enthusiast website)

I've also attached a PDF file containing an article I wrote for Railway Express magazine for a clockwise trip.

 

[jmhilde]

Thanks so much, gazthomas!

All of this makes good sense. I'd only just started looking at connection times (was focused on getting the Ffestiniog section figured out first) so I appreciate your saving me that work. Agreed, having the longer section done earlier in the day is preferred. Which is the loco-hauled train out of Llandudno Junction to Shrewsbury you recommend?

Alright, I won't worry about reservations or tickets until we're on the ground. I was hoping to visit the rail museum in Betws-y-Coed but as it closes at 5:00 we can do that another day.

Cheers!

 

[gazthomas]

@jmhilde

There is currently a 6.14am to Cardiff Central which is loco hauled on the Friday and 6.16am unit Shrewsbury on the Saturday (the loco hauled train only runs Monday-Friday). Double check in May for any changes. The mark 4 carriages of the former are pleasant. The loco hauled train returns from Shrewsbury at 19.28.

That said, I've just looked at the Ffestiniog Railway timetable for both days you mentioned and I think the clockwise run is not feasible and indeed, the anti-clockwise run is only achievable if you change at Minffordd for your onward train to Shrewsbury.

https://www.festrail.co.uk/pdf/summary-tt-2026.pdf (link to Ffestiniog Railway timetable which is well hidden!)

The changing daily timetables is a little annoying and reflects a shift towards "visitor experience" in the heritage sector.

It's definitely an option for Monday 25 May to Thursday 28 May.

 

[jmhilde]

Ahh, I see my mistake! I failed to mention we are not early birds, probably wouldn't get on our way until 8:00 or 9:00 at the earliest.

Now that I have actually found and looked at the 2026 Ffestiniog timetable, going clockwise I'm seeing only two trains departing Porthmadog on Friday 22 May (the "E" schedule): 10:40, way too early if we're starting in Llandudno Junction in the late morning; and 14:50, which doesn't appear to go all the way to Blaenau. So I'm back to anti-clockwise, catching the 12:45 out of Blaenau.

 

[gazthomas]

Ahh, I see my mistake! I failed to mention we are not early birds, probably wouldn't get on our way until 8:00 or 9:00 at the earliest.

Now that I have actually found and looked at the 2026 Ffestiniog timetable, going clockwise I'm seeing only two trains departing Porthmadog on Friday 22 May (the "E" schedule): 10:40, way too early if we're starting in Llandudno Junction in the late morning; and 14:50, which doesn't appear to go all the way to Blaenau. So I'm back to anti-clockwise, catching the 12:45 out of Blaenau.

I don't blame you! But do remember you will not have enough time to get to Porthmadog main line station, hence the need to change at Minffordd. Or get the later train from Porthmadog mainline railway station of course and you should make the return loco hauled train at Shrewsbury.

Good luck!

 

[jmhilde]

Good reminder that Porthmadog main station is different than the Ffestiniog station. Right!

 

[Haywain]

Good reminder that Porthmadog main station is different than the Ffestiniog station. Right!

Indeed, a 10-15 minute walk through the town. Both stations are equipped with good pubs!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've always thought anticlockwise was better anyway. Primarily for the way the scenery builds on the Conwy Valley and that final impressive emergence from the tunnel into the slatescape. The Coast isn't better or worse either way round in my view.

 

[Djgr]

@jmhilde


The changing daily timetables is a little annoying and reflects a shift towards "visitor experience" in the heritage sector.

with Ffestiniog leading the pack!

 

[MrJeeves]

I'm reading BF keeps a coach open for walk-ups but that makes me a tad nervous.

When I did the round robin about a year and a half ago, we just turned up at the station and got free reservations issued for us at the ticket office.

We were the only passengers in the walk-up coach for the whole service, and it looked like more comfortable seats than many of the other coaches on the train!

 

[jamess]

Don't forget that a one way upgrade into first class on the Ffestiniog, is just a tenner

 

[anothertyke]

@jmhilde

There is currently a 6.14am to Cardiff Central which is loco hauled on the Friday and 6.16am unit Shrewsbury on the Saturday (the loco hauled train only runs Monday-Friday). Double check in May for any changes. The mark 4 carriages of the former are pleasant. The loco hauled train returns from Shrewsbury at 19.28.

That said, I've just looked at the Ffestiniog Railway timetable for both days you mentioned and I think the clockwise run is not feasible and indeed, the anti-clockwise run is only achievable if you change at Minffordd for your onward train to Shrewsbury.

https://www.festrail.co.uk/pdf/summary-tt-2026.pdf (link to Ffestiniog Railway timetable which is well hidden!)

The changing daily timetables is a little annoying and reflects a shift towards "visitor experience" in the heritage sector.

It's definitely an option for Monday 25 May to Thursday 28 May.

Looks to me like the clockwise option is feasible on 23 May (only) picking up the 1525 from Porthmadog or 1535 from Minffordd. However that would mean abandoning the trip round the Betws Museum and starting at the relatively civilised 0826 from Llandudno Jct. Still a twelve hour day.

 

[Harpo]

Indeed, a 10-15 minute walk through the town. Both stations are equipped with good pubs!

If you get thirsty halfway along the high street ( ) the Purple Moose Brewery tap, called The Australia, can rehydrate you.

 

[Haywain]

If you get thirsty halfway along the high street ( ) the Purple Moose Brewery tap, called The Australia, can rehydrate you.

That's either a long or short halfway, depending on direction, but otherwise no argument from me.

 

[Envoy]

I can’t understand why the Rover/Ranger websites don't give the code for these tickets so that the passenger can tell staff the code when they go to get the ticket(s)?

I fail to understand why this Ffestiniog Round Robin deal expects people to do the entire circuit in 1 day? Surely, it would be better for tourism if people were allowed to a few days to do the trip so that they could hop off and spend a night or two at places on the route?

 

[Jan Mayen]

I can’t understand why the Rover/Ranger websites don't give the code for these tickets so that the passenger can tell staff the code when they go to get the ticket(s)?

I fail to understand why this Ffestiniog Round Robin deal expects people to do the entire circuit in 1 day? Surely, it would be better for tourism if people were allowed to a few days to do the trip so that they could hop off and spend a night or two at places on the route?

I've always assumed tgat it was because The Ffestiniog didn't get much money from it, and wanted to avoid people using it more than once.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've always assumed tgat it was because The Ffestiniog didn't get much money from it, and wanted to avoid people using it more than once.

Making it valid for more than one day wouldn't mean they couldn't prevent you using it more than once. They did indeed not like the generosity of the former North and Mid Wales Day Ranger on which I did this trip as a kid a load of times, though.

 

[gazthomas]

The ticket is almost as cheap as a return from say Bangor to Shrewsbury

 

[LittleRedTrain]

was hoping to visit the rail museum in Betws-y-Coed but as it closes at 5:00 we can do that another day.

Unless somebody has taken it over recently, expect to be disappointed.

Last time I was there the yard was full of rotting inaccessible stock and most of the exhibits in the indoor museum were damaged/not working and generally unloved.
The miniature railway is OK, if it's running.
The 15 in gauge tram hasn't run in years.

Oh and the cowboys that run the car park will do their very best to fine you!

It's no longer a place that I'd bother making a special trip to.

 

[gazthomas]

@LittleRedTrain you're absolutely spot on, sadly

 

[TrainTraveler]

I've done the round robin a couple of years back. The key to it was a decent connection at Blaenau Ffestiniog and that determined the direction of travel when I did it.

Depending on where you are staying, Llandudno (rather than the junction) is a nice place to start (actually Llandudno is nice generally, particularly the tramway).

I got caught with a poor seat choice on what would be the leg back to Llandudno for you (anticlockwise) by a reversal of the train at Chester having carefully chosen what I thought would be the coastal side at Shrewsbury so watch out for that!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Unless somebody has taken it over recently, expect to be disappointed.

Last time I was there the yard was full of rotting inaccessible stock and most of the exhibits in the indoor museum were damaged/not working and generally unloved.
The miniature railway is OK, if it's running.
The 15 in gauge tram hasn't run in years.

Oh and the cowboys that run the car park will do their very best to fine you!

It's no longer a place that I'd bother making a special trip to.

I've never been to that, but one thing that there is to report is that the excellent Alpine Cafe that has been there on the station for many years has recently closed for good

The owners do run a pizzeria a couple of doors up though, which I've heard is to a similar standard, so if you like pizza that's probably worth a visit (I believe it also does cooked breakfasts now), but the cafe is definitely missed.

 

[alistairlees]

Ooh that’s side news about the alpine cafe. I always like going in there.

 

[wellhouse]

I fail to understand why this Ffestiniog Round Robin deal expects people to do the entire circuit in 1 day? Surely, it would be better for tourism if people were allowed to a few days to do the trip so that they could hop off and spend a night or two at places on the route?

Looking at BRFares, I see 'No Restrictions', and bearing in mind that fares are offered from as far as Manchester, Liverpool and Birmingham, it's not clear that validity is restricted to 1 day. National Rail and TFW define validity as 'A single journey' but I am unable to find any restrictions specifying duration of validity. It has no peak restrictions.

Previous threads indicate the ticket is issued as a Return rather than a Rover or Ranger, so the question must be whether it is an Anytime or Day Return.

 

[jmhilde]

I'm so enjoying all of your posts! Cheers!

 

[Harpo]

That's either a long or short halfway, depending on direction, but otherwise no argument from me.

Maybe best we recommend a pint in one direction and two in the other?

 

[Envoy]

Looking at BRFares, I see 'No Restrictions', and bearing in mind that fares are offered from as far as Manchester, Liverpool and Birmingham, it's not clear that validity is restricted to 1 day. National Rail and TFW define validity as 'A single journey' but I am unable to find any restrictions specifying duration of validity. It has no peak restrictions.

Previous threads indicate the ticket is issued as a Return rather than a Rover or Ranger, so the question must be whether it is an Anytime or Day Return.

Thanks for this info.

 

[gazthomas]

Looking at BRFares, I see 'No Restrictions', and bearing in mind that fares are offered from as far as Manchester, Liverpool and Birmingham, it's not clear that validity is restricted to 1 day. National Rail and TFW define validity as 'A single journey' but I am unable to find any restrictions specifying duration of validity. It has no peak restrictions.

Previous threads indicate the ticket is issued as a Return rather than a Rover or Ranger, so the question must be whether it is an Anytime or Day Return.

My tickets have been issued as "Rail Ranger" on one ticket

 

[DaveB10780]

Looking at BRFares, I see 'No Restrictions', and bearing in mind that fares are offered from as far as Manchester, Liverpool and Birmingham, it's not clear that validity is restricted to 1 day. National Rail and TFW define validity as 'A single journey' but I am unable to find any restrictions specifying duration of validity. It has no peak restrictions.

Previous threads indicate the ticket is issued as a Return rather than a Rover or Ranger, so the question must be whether it is an Anytime or Day Return.

This is indeed very interesting, previously there was a two day ticket at a higher price. This seems to have gone. Last time I did the FFestiniog Round Robin coming from Furness Vale via Stockport it was a very long day and hard to plan. It did it anti clockwise which was the safest way.