Pinus contorta
Member
thats exciting. And the 22 continuing in its current format. A bit of joined up thinking.
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Bee Network Service/Route Discussion
- Thread starter Andyh82
- Start date
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
daodao
Established Member
As a local occasional user of service 263, it does not require double deck buses for most of the route, between Old Trafford and Altrincham, where it parallels the frequent Metrolink tram service on the former Manchester, South Junction and Altrincham railway line. There were only a handful of other passengers on board when I travelled between Stretford and Altrincham on service 263 last Tuesday afternoon. It can be busier between Old Trafford and All Saints, but this section is primarily catered for by service 250, which uses double deck buses and is a high frequency route running every 12 minutes during the daytime.
No bus services in South Trafford (Sale and Altrincham) run more often than every 20 minutes and IMO none warrant double deck buses (although they can be seen on services 11 and 41), given the patronage in this relatively affluent and lower population density suburban area. Several other low frequency services (25, 33, 126) that I used last Tuesday to travel to RHS Bridgwater were operated by double deck buses, and I fail to see the point of using such large buses on these routes, at significantly greater expense.
pokemonsuper9
Established Member
The 126 can get very busy, especially on Saturdays and at commuting times (especially school time).
adam rogan
Member
Confusion surrounding tickets- I wanted to try out the new bus from Preston to Chorley(124) and once I got this bus, I wanted to get the 125 to Bolton and then then the 1 to Darwen in order to try a bus that I'd never got before which is the bus from Darwen to Bury.
On a ticketer ticket machine, if someone wants to buy a bus ticket, the driver views the card and then adds the product. But in my experience, all non bee network operators(arriva, transdev, warrington's own buses, belle vue, high peak e.t.c) when buying a tfgm ticket on their bus, they default to an Anybus ticket allowing you to use buses within the franchised areas irrespective of who operates it. So when I got on the 125 at Horwich, I asked the driver to give me the 'anybus ticket' for a day on my bee card but he insisted that he only gave out paper tickets and sold weekly passes. I happen to be starting work within greater manchester this Monday in a transport related role so asked him for the 21 pound pass(Anybus). The driver told me that he only sold a 20 quid weekly pass and reassured me that I could use it on any bus within GM so I foolishly bought it. I then tried to board the 1 to Eagley and the ticket machine refused boarding. I then got on the 559 to Ashton to then head home to Merseyside and the 360 to Warrington(I got off at Newton) accepted my Bee Bus ticket.
I tried to get a refund at travel centre but they said I had to 'complain' to head office which I won't do. I have now discovered that the 125 does accept bee bus tickets as it is the only bus along Chorley old road so naturally it was forced to accept Bee bus passes. I also know that the 360 accepts them as my 559 forced me to get off at Platt Bridge due to an RTA.But other non bee network routes such as the 320/375/352/22a/590/587/464/1/ 199/157/156/22/60 e.t.c will not accept anything other than Anybus.
Can anyone give me a definitive breakdown on which routes accept Bee Bus as I have been forced to buy two tickets on my card today. I pay 80 quid for my solo pass(merseytravel) so I'm covered on this side of the border as well.
If I had control of TFGM I would have one bus pass which covered all buses within the system one area and also cover those routes which go outside it. The system is so complicated as stands that even I as an ethusiast was confused by it today. I wonder how regular passengers feel about this complexity.
On a ticketer ticket machine, if someone wants to buy a bus ticket, the driver views the card and then adds the product. But in my experience, all non bee network operators(arriva, transdev, warrington's own buses, belle vue, high peak e.t.c) when buying a tfgm ticket on their bus, they default to an Anybus ticket allowing you to use buses within the franchised areas irrespective of who operates it. So when I got on the 125 at Horwich, I asked the driver to give me the 'anybus ticket' for a day on my bee card but he insisted that he only gave out paper tickets and sold weekly passes. I happen to be starting work within greater manchester this Monday in a transport related role so asked him for the 21 pound pass(Anybus). The driver told me that he only sold a 20 quid weekly pass and reassured me that I could use it on any bus within GM so I foolishly bought it. I then tried to board the 1 to Eagley and the ticket machine refused boarding. I then got on the 559 to Ashton to then head home to Merseyside and the 360 to Warrington(I got off at Newton) accepted my Bee Bus ticket.
I tried to get a refund at travel centre but they said I had to 'complain' to head office which I won't do. I have now discovered that the 125 does accept bee bus tickets as it is the only bus along Chorley old road so naturally it was forced to accept Bee bus passes. I also know that the 360 accepts them as my 559 forced me to get off at Platt Bridge due to an RTA.But other non bee network routes such as the 320/375/352/22a/590/587/464/1/ 199/157/156/22/60 e.t.c will not accept anything other than Anybus.
Can anyone give me a definitive breakdown on which routes accept Bee Bus as I have been forced to buy two tickets on my card today. I pay 80 quid for my solo pass(merseytravel) so I'm covered on this side of the border as well.
If I had control of TFGM I would have one bus pass which covered all buses within the system one area and also cover those routes which go outside it. The system is so complicated as stands that even I as an ethusiast was confused by it today. I wonder how regular passengers feel about this complexity.
markymark2000
On Moderation
I don't think it'd be so much of an issue if it wasn't for the idiotic decision to rename System One tickets. Even if people don't fully understand the acceptance of each ticket, they can easily understand that there is a difference between System One and Bee Bus because the names couldn't be much different so they will know if they are being sold the wrong one. To have 2 very similar sounding products though, but both with extremely different validity, is very poor.
Leedsbusman
Member
Bee Bus tickets and Bee Any bus tickets are valid on every local bus service within GM regardless of operators. They have different validities for cross boundary journeys.
mayneway
Member
Hello Adam
Im a driver within the Bee Network and this is how I understand it.
The Bee Bus (£20) weekly and all other Bee tickets are valid on all Bee yellow buses, and then any other bus service within Greater Manchester but is technically only valid within Greater Manchester so once it enters Merseyside or Cheshire it’s not officially valid.
Hope that makes sense
johncrossley
Established Member
Bus tickets
There are plenty of tickets that you can buy to travel on buses in Greater Manchester, including Bee Network buses.
The £20 weekly ticket is therefore valid on all Bee Network franchised services anywhere, including outside Greater Manchester, and on other buses within Greater Manchester.
You only need the £21 ticket if you use those services mentioned in the buffer zone between the Greater Manchester boundary and the AnyBus boundary (that list of routes is out-of-date)
Bus tickets
There are plenty of tickets that you can buy to travel on buses in Greater Manchester, including Bee Network buses.
So it looks like you can't buy the £20 ticket on a bus other than a Bee Network bus, so not sure what the 125 driver sold here. Buying on the app or at Paypoint before boarding would have been advised here.
Bus tickets
There are plenty of tickets that you can buy to travel on buses in Greater Manchester, including Bee Network buses.
It looks like you *can* buy the £21 ticket on a non-Bee Network bus, so including the 125, but you still need a smartcard. You can't buy this using the app.
Last edited:
adam rogan
Member
They sometimes go down due to a fault as with the usb ports when they aren't intentionally damaged. However, some drivers deliberately put bus on detour so that the next stop announcements stop as I assume that hearing the same stop names over and over again can get tedious. The TFGM next stop announcement voice is actually quite soothing when compared to others.
mayneway
Member
Only a small number of buses have controllers where this is possible. The vast majority of newer buses within the TFGM fleet have a diversion button in the cab that actually does nothing.
I had a bus a few weeks ago that simply said ‘thank you for travelling on the bee network, please take all your belongings with you’ over and over again and I had no way of stopping it or turning it down.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
I’ll be honest, from a drivers point of view.
The system is a joke. It’s cheap and shoddy and doesn’t work. It glitches far too often. I drive in an area where a number of our services are on a semi permanent diversion due to part of the town centre being closed to traffic, as soon as you go off route and onto the diversion the display and announcements stop and don’t start again even when you return to normal route.
Typical TFGM doing things on the cheap!!
Statto
Established Member
Agreed, the screens also scroll too quickly, which i get when stops are close by but the screens then show adverts on them, which shouldn't be allowed, the screens should be for next stop only.
Although i do find it handy when the screens do work, they display next train departures when the route passes a rail station, although they scroll far too fast to the next page to be able to read the next train departures properly.
darylyates17
Member
Who’s likely to run the 612 and what vehicles are going to be used?
adam rogan
Member
It will be ran out of Go North West in Wigan(Lockett Road, Bryn). We don't know what vehicles will be used but going off of what vehicles currently serve Wigan to Newton and Newton to St Helens, it is likely to be served by single decker enviro 200 mmcs but would not be surprised if deckers end up appearing on that route.
I am fascinated to see what sort of traction this route gets as there are so many gaps within the Bee Network's core network(two hourly frequencies, lack of sunday or adequate evening services in some places) that creating a new route out of scratch competing with a neighboring county's soon to be franchised routes seems a bit odd.
darylyates17
Member
I do wonder if TfGM have done this to replace the evening 22A and eventually the Wigan-Newton le Willows part of the 360 as I can see Arriva giving it up eventually.
Is it competing though? The original bee network committee papers said the route is being run in cooperation with the LCR franchising so I assume they won't see it as completion. I think it's great to see them working together so routes don't just stop at the nearest town to the boundary. It worked up to 1986 so why not now.
Statto
Established Member
For the umpteenth time Bee Network cannot withdraw the 22A & 360, they have to be withdrawn by the current operator Warrington & Arriva as they are nothing to do with Bee Network, & how many times does this need to be explained.
darylyates17
Member
I am aware TfGM don’t have the power to physically withdraw the routes what I mean is Warrington & Arriva may give up the routes themselves as they might not get as much revenue as they did before, as already mentioned I do see Arriva giving up the 360 at some point.
JasonL
Member
Not sure about Double Deckers as most of the Double deckers are normal roof height Streetdecks as there is a bridge going to Newton-le-Willows is 14'0 in height. So it's very likely E200MMCs will be operated on the route as I seen one go through Newton-le-Willows a few weeks ago on route learning.
Statto
Established Member
I see what you mean, i was on the 360 a month ago & Wigan-Golbourne was the busiest section of the route, some did stay on beyond Newton Le Willows, although the bus i was on was a decker.
Be interesting to see the 612 timetable to see if it's every 30 minutes with the 360, the 360 Southbound departs Wigan mainly xx00, & departs Northbound from Newton Le Willows at xx24 most of the day.
The 34/34A is more awkward as it's one of those AI generated timetables, which is basically see timetable.
darylyates17
Member
34/34A does need a frequency increase I wonder if they’ll be timed in between the 612s would presume the 612 will be every 60 mins.
Statto
Established Member
Deckers can operate on the 34/360 so can operate on the new 612 route, i was on an E400 on the 360 a few weeks ago, & i believe the 360 get the odd decker allocated now & again.
Has anyone suggested they can?
It's just been suggested that it's being done in conjunction with Merseyside franchising so they'll specify complementing rather than competing services.
Depends if it's routed to under Wargrave bridge between Newton & Earlestown, single deck only if it is.
Statto
Established Member
Not knowing the area too well, i think know which bridge you mean, it's that bridge on Park Road North/South, but i think the 612 (why am i posting it 621 route before correcting myself?
) will be via the 34 route though.
darylyates17
Member
I think the 612 will skip Belvedere Road and Queens Drive and go straight down Crow Lane as the current 22 does but having it run the entire 34 route up to the railway station is a huge possibility.Not knowing the area too well, i think know which bridge you mean, it's that bridge on Park Road North/South, but i think the 612 (why am i posting it 621 route before correcting myself?
JasonL
Member
It will follow near enough the entire route of the 34 from Newton-le-Willows. Not sure if it will go onto Queens Drive and Belvedere Road like the 34 does.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Good to hear such an expressed view from someone who actually drives and meets this problem in real life in his working day.
The op could be referring to the 22A being "provided with the financial support of Transport for Greater Manchester".
However, as it serves Warrington rather than St.Helens, I guess it'll depend on TFGMs desire to maintain an evening Warrington connection or not.