The amount of short platforms on the marches!!
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Could TfW expand the Class 197 fleet?
- Thread starter GaryNeville
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Topological
Established Member
Gangwayed units with Selective Door Opening have a lot to be said for them.The amount of short platforms on the marches!!
TBF Nantwich gets an otherwise pretty poor service so makes sense it gets a lot of usage. Are the trains generally well loaded between Manchester and Cardiff/Swansea or is it scewed more so to the Manchester end of the route?
Topological
Established Member
Manchester end.
Cardiff to the West was always busy on a 3-car, but given that they only run 3-car maximum in the hours when the Mk4 sets terminate at/originate from Cardiff.
Nantwich, Whitchurch and Wem would justify stops in the Manchesters. In the hours the 197s do the service they can call and only have the same journey time as the Mk4 sets.
Why? Are they not served in the Manchesters at present? Nantwich seems way to big for a once every two hour stopping service. But absolutely 197s should be stopping there if not. I feel it's the type of regional service they're designed for
Topological
Established Member
The Mk4 sets often miss Nantwich. They cannot keep time if there are more stops.
This link to Real Time Trains shows how it is: Nantwich to Manchester 8th April
Nantwich is not called at 1117, 1317, 1517, 1717 and 1917. The 0719 and 0921 are Mk4s and call)
From Piccadilly the 0830, 1030, 1230 and 1430 do not call. The 06:27, 16:30 and 18:30 from Manchester are Mk4 sets which do call
Interesting. Maybe what tfw needs is a more intercity style 197. Perhaps like others have said, something like a shorter 897 as hopefully something like that can speed up the services currently ran by mk4s and deliver a more consistent service
Topological
Established Member
The point at the moment is that the 197s can do 5 more stops between Cardiff and Manchester (Craven Arms, Church Stretton, Wem, Whitchurch and Nanrwich) and still keep the same end to end journey time as the Mk4 that misses those stops. To me it is a no-brainer to go for something more like the 197 on all trains.
Doing all of that AND speeding up the service would be great. But not to use stock that do the stops and keep the journey time seems particularly remiss.
tfw756rider
On Moderation
Wouldn't a "797" or "795" be fine? Would speed above 100mph really be needed?
Not necessarily but could allow for it to be a slightly easier addition to the end of the LNER order whilst making it more versatile in future cascades and potentially giving scope to increasing line speed in places in future. Though I admit they are unlikely.
110mph would fit Crewe-Manchester and wouldn't require any massive changes compared to 100mph.
The 140mph-suitable bodyshells of 80x would be wasteful however.
Exactly why I feel 897s would be a great option given LNER have just placed an order so would be a very easy addon and as they are just 397s capable of running off wires, aren't they're top speeds capped at 125mph by design and hence, not an over provision for what the trains will be running in service anyway. No 397 has ever done more than 110mph in service.
317 forever
Established Member
They could expand the 197 fleet by ordering another 3 units and binning off the unreliable 230s. Admittedly the 197s would not be suitable replacements if services on the line are to be extended from Bidston to Liverpool.
I think tfws long term aspiration is for 777 or something similar for the line. I doubt they'll replace the 230s untill they know what they're actually going to do with it.
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