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Avanti Settle and Carlisle diversions (allocations, diagrams & timetabling)

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ChilliSauce

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Giving absolutely everyone connecting towards Rugby and beyond a 100% delay repay refund. Thats an extremely expensive decision for the sake of a brief connectional ‘hold’.
Don't knock it .. 60L is better than 58L . Free rides for all because of operating incompetence.

The industry needs to wake up and do joined up thinking.... Until then it will just keep hemorrhaging money.
 
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voyagerdude220

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It presumably doesn't help that the Diversions are still timed for a 220 Voyager/221 Super Voyager, which would no doubt perform alot better than a Class 805.

Given the number of delays during the January diversions, why didn't Network Rail/Avanti agree to add say an extra 10-15 minutes onto each run?
 

dk1

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Repeat performance then of the January diversions? .. but then it's the same clapped out class 805 trains being deployed

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Clapped out seems a strange choice of wording. The fleet are showing ever impressive reliability according to the latest MR magazine informed sources column.
 

Oxfordblues

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Giving absolutely everyone connecting towards Rugby and beyond a 100% delay repay refund. Thats an extremely expensive decision for the sake of a brief connectional ‘hold’.
Especially considering 1M11 has spent 5 minutes at Crewe waiting time.
 

voyagerdude220

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Clapped out seems a strange choice of wording. The fleet are showing ever impressive reliability according to the latest MR magazine informed sources column.
I suspect that the majority of the time when 805s have faults is when they're on Diesel and of course needing all 3 GUs running perfectly seems to be a big ask for an 805, which I believe is needed for them to be able to run over the Settle and Carlisle. I wonder how the reliability of the 805 fleet was assessed and what proportion of the 805s during this assessment were running on diesel.
 

The Planner

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It presumably doesn't help that the Diversions are still timed for a 220 Voyager/221 Super Voyager, which would no doubt perform alot better than a Class 805.

Given the number of delays during the January diversions, why didn't Network Rail/Avanti agree to add say an extra 10-15 minutes onto each run?
Because you don't stick shed loads of "what if " time in because the units are having problems.
 

dk1

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I suspect that the majority of the time when 805s have faults is when they're on Diesel and of course needing all 3 GUs running perfectly seems to be a big ask for an 805, which I believe is needed for them to be able to run over the Settle and Carlisle. I wonder how the reliability of the 805 fleet was assessed and what proportion of the 805s during this assessment were running on diesel.
I would imagine pretty much every eventuality was assessed during testing. Certainly was with the Stadler bimodes we tested thoroughly over many many months. The weather conditions don’t look good across the S&C today with Dave closing in. What effect that has on their traction too I’m not sure.
 

voyagerdude220

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Because you don't stick shed loads of "what if " time in because the units are having problems.
Well I get the distinct impression that even when the units are on 100% power/no faults, they still seem to struggle at times on the S&C diversions.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

I would imagine pretty much every eventuality was assessed during testing. Certainly was with the Stadler bimodes we tested thoroughly over many many months. The weather conditions don’t look good across the S&C today with Dave closing in. What effect that has on their traction too I’m not sure.
Fair enough but the Everos certainly don't seem to like the S&C.
 

dk1

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Fair enough but the Everos certainly don't seem to like the S&C.

Did the diverts in January and the unit sitting at Preston had all toilets OOU due to the icy weather. We all boarded the unit arriving from Crewe which attached as the train manager didn’t want anyone stuck in that set with no facilities. Wasn’t too busy so didn’t really matter.
 

voyagerdude220

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Today's 15:07 Preston to Carlisle left Preston 26 late due to difficulties changing from Electric to Diesel mode.
 

yorkshirerail

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Do these diversions have both first class and standard premium on them as both these are showing on Seatfrog and if so how does this work in terms of coaches on the 805s. Thanks
 

voyagerdude220

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I was on today's 08:42 Preston to Carlisle which ended up being cancelled about an hour after we should have departed due to a tree on the line at Pleasington. The train was a 10-car which was almost empty.

Amusingly at one point Avanti's Journey Check page stated "due to an obstruction on the line at Bolton, services between Preston and Carlisle are disrupted."

This afternoon's 15:07 Preston to Carlisle hasn't left Preston yet, it should have been the same 10 car from the 08:42, which I think ended up being shunted into sidings south of Preston.

No messages on Avanti Journey Check about the 15:07 over half an hour after it should have left Preston.
 

Mcr Warrior

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This afternoon's 15:07 Preston to Carlisle hasn't left Preston yet, it should have been the same 10 car from the 08:42, which I think ended up being shunted into sidings south of Preston.

No messages on Avanti Journey Check about the 15:07 over half an hour after it should have left Preston.
Avanti's 15:08 Preston to Carlisle service (via Appleby) looks to have been cancelled and is now showing as such on Avanti Journey Check and also on Real Time Trains. Last train at 17:07?
 
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voyagerdude220

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Avanti's 15:08 Preston to Carlisle service (via Appleby) looks to have been cancelled and is now showing as such on Avanti Journey Check and also on Real Time Trains. Last train at 17:07?
Yes the 15:08 from Preston and it's return working from Carlisle were only cancelled at 16:05.
 

Carlisle

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So the claim from Avanti they’d learned lessons from the high number of cancellations that occurred during early January’s Settle diversions appears to bear little substance.
 

voyagerdude220

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So the claim from Avanti they’d learned lessons from the high number of cancellations that occurred during early January’s Settle diversions appears to bear little substance.
In fairness today's issues were down to the tree on the line although I don't know why/how this supposedly prevented the 15:08 from Preston to Carlisle and it's return working from running.

But yes yesterday's cancellation was Generator Unit related which is very poor in my opinion.

I notice this weekend alot more 5 car workings on the Diversions compared with in January when the vast majority were 10 cars.
 

ChilliSauce

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So the claim from Avanti they’d learned lessons from the high number of cancellations that occurred during early January’s Settle diversions appears to bear little substance.
I think Avanti tried very hard to make the service work back in January ... And they most likely will try the same again..... But what can they do when the trains they have been given to work with keep breaking down ? Repeated Generator Failures is sending the message that these Hitachi trains are not fit for purpose ..
 

lrbvoyager

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I think Avanti tried very hard to make the service work back in January ... And they most likely will try the same again..... But what can they do when the trains they have been given to work with keep breaking down ? Repeated Generator Failures is sending the message that these Hitachi trains are not fit for purpose ..
It’s a shame really! If the S&C diversions had been successful they might of considered trialling the Everos on the Glasgow via Dumfries diversions which we have lost as a result for loosing the 221s.
 

Harpo

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Repeated Generator Failures is sending the message that these Hitachi trains are not fit for purpose ..
It seems brave to send units designed for a slow flat totter in North Wales up the Cumbrian fells. The time losses and cold trains seem to show their limitations but there’s a big difference between reliable and fit for purpose.

I’m still impressed that Avanti have at least attempted these diversions.
 

The Planner

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It’s a shame really! If the S&C diversions had been successful they might of considered trialling the Everos on the Glasgow via Dumfries diversions which we have lost as a result for loosing the 221s.
They won't do that. They have to rob Wales to be able to do this. Doing GS&W diverts would end up so sporadic across a day.
 

VT 390

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But they could be used on other routes
The only normal Avanti route which is not electrified is the Chester/North Wales services for which there are enough class 805, especially since they were ordered before the Shrewsbury route was dropped.
The class 807 could have been used on diversionary routes such as the Settle Carlisle diversions had they been bi-mode, but it would not make sense to order stock based on very occasional non electrified diversionary usage.
 

Chrism20

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Apologies if this is a silly question but what is the difference between the Avanti bi-modes and other bi-modes in the 80x series operated by GWR/LNER/TPE/HT?

I get that the Settle & Carlisle is steep and isn't exactly a gentle stroll however LNER seem to manage the Highland Mainline without sets pegging it on a regular basis.

Hands up when it comes to technical stuff like this I'm rubbish, I'm just curious
 

dk1

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But they could be used on other routes
Be silly carrying all that extra weight/equipment around for a very odd occasion of use. GWR wouldn’t have done it on so many had Oxford/Bristol/Swansea been fully wired.
 

philthetube

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I was looking at fares for the replacement bus services on Thursday 16th April.

I was interested to see that first class tickets are available for this journey, I wonder if a Rolls is to be provided.

I could understand anytime tickets being available but Advances?
 

Carlisle

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Doing well with today’s shuttles so far, hope they keep up the good work.
 
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