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Go Cornwall Bus

Goldfish62

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Looks like that would fit down Mousehole Harbour without any bother but unfortunately it probably wouldn't be able to take all the passengers at busy times.

Dave
Yes, that's smaller and got less capacity than the Sprinters!

Richard Stevens has said he'll serve the harbour again if he can find a bus that has sufficient capacity and fits. This isn't it!
 
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Flange Squeal

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Saw this rather interesting minibus in Lisbon today. Has a wheelchair space but not sure if it is available in right hand drive or PSVAR compliant ( didn’t see any sign of a ramp). Certainly small enough to get to Mousehole Harbour.
These sorts of small buses are common in cities across mainland Europe, often operating free circular routes that penetrate narrow city centre streets that normal buses can’t reach (in France, you’ll often see them referred to as ‘Navette’).

For reference, this particular example is a Karsan e-Jest and, unlike many similar vehicles, it is actually available in the UK through importer and bodybuilding company EVM. But as already mentioned, capacity with these vehicles is the issue. With them primarily aimed at providing inner urban, short hop type journeys on a high frequency service, their size and design isn’t really compatible with Mousehole to Penzance journeys. They can only fit 10 fixed seats with 2 flip up seats in the wheelchair bay. Stated capacities are 12 seated plus 2 standing, or 10 seated plus 1 standing with 1 wheelchair user.
 

MotCO

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Maybe the Mousehole roads should be covered by an unmanned autonomous microbus, running several times an hour to link up with the double deckers on the main road? (Once such transport is fully approved.)
 

fgwrich

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Agree. Would fit but seats are equal to or less than the First Bus Sprinters.
Perhaps, as a thought, something like this could be used as a shuttle between Mousehole Harbour and Newlyn to connect into a frequent, larger buses from there? It’d be a form of compromise at least!
 

stevieinselby

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Maybe the Mousehole roads should be covered by an unmanned autonomous microbus, running several times an hour to link up with the double deckers on the main road? (Once such transport is fully approved.)
I can't think of any routes less suitable for an unmanned vehicle to be threading its way along than the narrow, twisty lanes through Mousehole with pedestrians milling about everywhere and give-and-take needed with other drivers o_O
 

Cheers Drive

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I can't think of any routes less suitable for an unmanned vehicle to be threading its way along than the narrow, twisty lanes through Mousehole with pedestrians milling about everywhere and give-and-take needed with other drivers o_O
Not to mention autonomous vehicles need great satellite signal and around those buildings you get none.

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Would suggest they just buy an optare solo sr slimline swb easily fit
 

Goldfish62

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Would suggest they just buy an optare solo sr slimline swb easily fit
One was tested several years ago and it failed. I believe grounding on the top corner was the issue because the rear overhang is a lot lower than on the original Solo. If the SR could fit First would have bought them instead of the Sprinters.

And that ship has well and truely sailed given they're not made anymore.
 

Bletchleyite

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Yes, that's smaller and got less capacity than the Sprinters!

Richard Stevens has said he'll serve the harbour again if he can find a bus that has sufficient capacity and fits. This isn't it!

Does Mellor do anything suitable? Or would those have overhang issues as they're van derived?

Are they arguing that the Sprinters First used were too low capacity?
 

Goldfish62

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Does Mellor do anything suitable? Or would those have overhang issues as they're van derived?

Are they arguing that the Sprinters First used were too low capacity?
An OTS Mellor Strata was also tried and was too "snug" a fit.

The issue is that GSW (RS) want a bus with sufficient capacity that the service can be provided with two buses, not three. The last buses that suited were the original Solos.

Total capacity of the Sprinters was 26 (although I've experienced somewhat more than this...), 7.8m Solos around 40.

Currently the issue is unresolvable.
 

Andyh82

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I’m sure Go Cornwall said that the reason they weren’t running to the harbour was the lack of capacity across the whole route, and reversing operations that they deem to not be that great safety wise. Even if a fleet of buses small enough were lined up ready to go, it sounds like they wouldn’t want them.
 
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Goldfish62

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I’m sure Go South Coast said that the reason they weren’t running to the harbour was the lack of capacity across the whole route, and reversing operations that they deem to not be that great safety wise. Even if a fleet of buses small enough were lined up ready to go, it sounds like they wouldn’t want them.
Richard Stevens only mentioned safety once, and that was in his slightly ill-tempered BBC interview. Following industry commentators including Roger French labelling the new turning manoeuvre at The Parade as dangerous he's not dared played the safety card with the harbour turn again. Plenty of us knew he was taking nonsense anyway, no doubt in order to try to bolster his case.

In his subsequent interview on ITV following the public meeting in Mousehole he was far more conciliatory and understanding of the hardship being caused to some residents. That is when he explained that if a bus design exists that has sufficient capacity across the whole route he would serve the harbour again, or look at a "last mile" shuttle service. He promised to review the situation after a few months but said, with considerable justification, that any potential solution would require an element of council funding. He came across well in this interview - couldn't have been more different from his BBC interview, which I'll be charitable about and put down to the stress of being in the middle of implementing the new network.

In the meantime the council has committed to installing a shelter at the very exposed new stop.
 
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Andyh82

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Surely “a bus design exists that has sufficient capacity across the whole route” is just a way of taking the heat away from GCB and making the general public think it’s still possible that they will be serving the harbour again soon. We know that this bus doesn’t exist.
 

Goldfish62

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Surely “a bus design exists that has sufficient capacity across the whole route” is just a way of taking the heat away from GCB and making the general public think it’s still possible that they will be serving the harbour again soon. We know that this bus doesn’t exist.
Well of course it is.
 

fgwrich

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I’m sure Go Cornwall said that the reason they weren’t running to the harbour was the lack of capacity across the whole route, and reversing operations that they deem to not be that great safety wise. Even if a fleet of buses small enough were lined up ready to go, it sounds like they wouldn’t want them.
Of course another issue has been the revision of services within that area. Prior to the end you had at least 3 First and 2? GSW services on the Penzance to Newlyn corridor before the splits by Newlyn Bridge, whereas now it’s down to 3. So therefore capacity has already been squeezed between Penzance and Newlyn.
 

Goldfish62

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On 19th April you can once again go to Mousehole harbour every 30 minutes during the Penzance Running Day.

Go South West is a sponsor of the event and Richard Stevens a very keen supporter, although I expect he'll decide to stay well clear of driving buses on that particular route, which he's done at at least one previous running day! :lol:

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Of course another issue has been the revision of services within that area. Prior to the end you had at least 3 First and 2? GSW services on the Penzance to Newlyn corridor before the splits by Newlyn Bridge, whereas now it’s down to 3. So therefore capacity has already been squeezed between Penzance and Newlyn.
Yes, 4 First (1/1A, M6) and 1 GSW (5/5A) to be exact. Now it's just 1/1A (1bph) and 6 (2bph). The 1/1A is a bit messed up at the moment. Chywoone Hill is closed due to a negligent property owner allowing their substantial boundary wall to collapse into the road.
 
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Tetchytyke

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Surely “a bus design exists that has sufficient capacity across the whole route” is just a way of taking the heat away from GCB
Absolutely.

Go-Ahead decided to cut the frequency of the route to Mousehole, preferring to send bigger buses less often. There are, no doubt, solid financial reasons for deciding this, but it is something they decided to do. They weren't compelled to do it.

Next step will be Go-Ahead demanding more taxpayer cash to put the service back to how it was before, with smaller buses more often.
 

RELL6L

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Absolutely.

Go-Ahead decided to cut the frequency of the route to Mousehole, preferring to send bigger buses less often. There are, no doubt, solid financial reasons for deciding this, but it is something they decided to do. They weren't compelled to do it.

Next step will be Go-Ahead demanding more taxpayer cash to put the service back to how it was before, with smaller buses more often.
No they didn’t, First withdrew their route - along with all their other routes in Cornwall. Go Ahead decided what routes they wanted to run and at what frequencies. Like many other routes, this was less than previously. If Cornwall council decided that was inadequate they could have asked for additional services to be run and paid for it.
 

Tetchytyke

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No they didn’t, First withdrew their route - along with all their other routes in Cornwall. Go Ahead decided what routes they wanted to run and at what frequencies.
Tomato/tomato.

Go-Ahead could have operated it at the same frequency as First Kernow using smaller buses as First Kernow had done. Sprinter City 45s aren't exactly hard to come by.

Go-Ahead chose not to, they chose to run bigger buses less often because it is cheaper for them to do so. For Go-Ahead to then blame 'safety' or 'overcrowding' is, quite simply, a lie. It is a financial decision they chose.
 

I'm here now

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On 19th April you can once again go to Mousehole harbour every 30 minutes during the Penzance Running Day.

Go South West is a sponsor of the event and Richard Stevens a very keen supporter, although I expect he'll decide to stay well clear of driving buses on that particular route, which he's done at at least one previous running day! :lol:

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Yes, 4 First (1/1A, M6) and 1 GSW (5/5A) to be exact. Now it's just 1/1A (1bph) and 6 (2bph). The 1/1A is a bit messed up at the moment. Chywoone Hill is closed due to a negligent property owner allowing their substantial boundary wall to collapse into the road.
And the 1/1A is timetabled 5mins after the 6 so the train/bus conx are awful
 

stevieinselby

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Go-Ahead could have operated it at the same frequency as First Kernow using smaller buses as First Kernow had done. Sprinter City 45s aren't exactly hard to come by.

Go-Ahead chose not to, they chose to run bigger buses less often because it is cheaper for them to do so. For Go-Ahead to then blame 'safety' or 'overcrowding' is, quite simply, a lie. It is a financial decision they chose.
The buses used on the M6 weren't standard Sprinter City 45s, but were custom-built longer versions to provide extra capacity.

When First Kernow closed down their entire operation because it was not financially viable, it isn't reasonable to expect another operator to replace it like-for-like – inevitably, there would need to be some efficiency savings in order to make the new network sustainable. Running minibuses on a 20-minute frequency is not an efficient way to run the service.
 

Tetchytyke

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When First Kernow closed down their entire operation because it was not financially viable, it isn't reasonable to expect another operator to replace it like-for-like
Was the Mousehole service losing money under First Kernow? We’re expected to believe it’s a loss-making service yet one that experiences overcrowding?

Of course Go-Ahead took the cheaper option. My issue is the way they try and claim that it’s completely outside of their control and it’s all about safety and overcrowding, when it isn’t. It’s because they can get three bus loads of people into two buses if they avoid going to the harbour, so that’s what they do.
 

stevieinselby

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Was the Mousehole service losing money under First Kernow? We’re expected to believe it’s a loss-making service yet one that experiences overcrowding?
It's perfectly possible for both of those to be true with a minibus – if income is less than running costs then it makes a loss, and if it can only carry 20 passengers and lots of them are on ENCTS passes then yes, you could easily be running at a loss. Especially if at any one time of day, it's only busy in one direction.
 

Goldfish62

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It's perfectly possible for both of those to be true with a minibus – if income is less than running costs then it makes a loss, and if it can only carry 20 passengers and lots of them are on ENCTS passes then yes, you could easily be running at a loss. Especially if at any one time of day, it's only busy in one direction.
26 passengers to be pedantic.
 

Tetchytyke

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It's perfectly possible for both of those to be true with a minibus
Hmm. Not buying that at all. Not as they’re using double deckers on the Mousehole route.

It’s the lying that bothers me. They run bigger buses less frequently because it saves them money. It’s not because of safety and it’s not because of a lack of suitable buses.
 

THarris123

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Not sure what thread to put this on exactly, but question relating to Plymouth.

I note that some new Electroliners have turned up recently, all being 26 plates. I didn't realise that they were due anymore electrics than the 50 they already had. I can't find any articles on this - is it further zebra funding? How many more are due?
 

gka472l

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Not sure what thread to put this on exactly, but question relating to Plymouth.

I note that some new Electroliners have turned up recently, all being 26 plates. I didn't realise that they were due anymore electrics than the 50 they already had. I can't find any articles on this - is it further zebra funding? How many more are due?
https://www.buslistsontheweb.co.uk/ shows 9 due, as 7051-7059.

HTH
 

MotCO

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Not sure what thread to put this on exactly, but question relating to Plymouth.

I note that some new Electroliners have turned up recently, all being 26 plates. I didn't realise that they were due anymore electrics than the 50 they already had. I can't find any articles on this - is it further zebra funding? How many more are due?
Are these TfC / Citibus buses, or are they further loans from London, with maybe the original BYDs returning to London to assume duties there?
 

LAIRA

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Are these TfC / Citibus buses, or are they further loans from London, with maybe the original BYDs returning to London to assume duties there?
They are for city use, there are no charging points in Cornwall except for Truro. London buses are now starting to return.
 

aswilliamsuk

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Not sure what thread to put this on exactly, but question relating to Plymouth.

I note that some new Electroliners have turned up recently, all being 26 plates. I didn't realise that they were due anymore electrics than the 50 they already had. I can't find any articles on this - is it further zebra funding? How many more are due?
The original order for 50 was increased to 59.
 

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