Reform UK discussion

[martin butler]

Tax avoidance, in all its forms is legal, tax evasion however isn't, morally speaking both are not exactly the right thing to do, and only benefit those who can afford to hire the specialist people who can advise them how to do it.

Often tax laws are written in such a way that there will be built in avenues that can be used to avoid tax, if you know where to look, and there's a revolving door between treasury officials, and the private tax accounting firms, that people wishing to avoid taxes will use, Often the official who wrote the law, will at a later date, be the one telling their clients how to side step them.

 

[AlterEgo]

Tax avoidance, in all its forms is legal, tax evasion however isn't, morally speaking both are not exactly the right thing to do

Rubbish. That's like saying split ticketing or using legitimate loophole tickets in a way not usually intended is morally improper too.

, and only benefit those who can afford to hire the specialist people who can advise them how to do it.

No, there are lots of ways to legally avoid tax you don't need a tax advisor for.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Mine is taken at source via PAYE and I will never be lucky enough to have to doge £600k in tax

Freudian slip?

 

[35B]

I have seen reporting of Tice's tax affairs, in particular his parking his property business in a REIT structure and taking advantage of the favourable tax regime that applies to REITs without pre-approval by HMRC. The impression given is certainly of aggressive tax avoidance, going way beyond the normal ISA/pension type tax planning, or even the options available for IHT planning.

 

[DarloRich]

I mean the whole thing came from a journo at The Times

Fair enough - I don't take a paper as they are all biased.

I don't know, but then there's 650 MPs and I don't know where any of them got the money to buy their houses.

We should. I also agree with Robin Williams (?): They should also have to wear outfits showing thier sponsor logos like F1 drivers.

Reform who at this point in time appear to have better PR teams.

Always helps when you have the mass media simply passing your press releases on and cheerleading for you! I do agree through. I want to to see Labour much more on the front foot and start swinging at Reform and thier wrong uns.


BTW: You will never convince me that Reform are right about anything and I am unwilling to give them even the slightest benefit of the doubt about anything. My default position is they are chancers and hypocrites and this story simply confirms that. I would be suspicious if they told me today was Tuesday!

The behaviour of Tice is entirely correct, legal and above board I am sure. It doesn't make it right. It stinks.

 

[Lewisham2221]

What we need is a media who will do a better job of finding all this out and putting pressure on governments to actually legislate in this field, regardless of who is involved. Of course both the Tice and Rayner stuff came out because of media investigations, but there still isn't enough of a push towards wider reforms, probably because 1) the media owners are engaged in the same practice so don't want this, but are happy to scapegoat politicians to pretend to care, and 2) overcoming this involves effort and it's much easier for politicians and journalists to engage in a game of sycophantic Tetris and lick each other's rears all the time.

No, what we actually need is for politicians to actually focus on their jobs - i.e running the country, rather than childish personality politics

 

[Gloster]

My feeling is that whatever the ins and outs of all this, and the legal situation, which probably doesn’t involve anything illegal, it may highlight to some of the Reform supporters and waverers that these ‘men of the people’ are very rich and earn enough to make it worthwhile employing all sorts of clever manoeuvres that are way beyond their supporters’ means. Some may start wondering whether the leaders’ tax plans may be more favourable to the really rich, such as the leadership, rather than the rank and file.

Combined with the realisation that Tice’s partner happens to be living in Dubai and so avoids paying a great deal of tax to the UK, but that people out there for tax reasons now want the British taxpayer to cover the cost of evacuating them, questions about how all the money from these wonderful savings will be distributed by the the leadership should appear. But they can probably rely on much of the media to look elsewhere for really important matters.

 

[nw1]

It all makes the next election all the more unpredictable. I doubt Labour will get a majority but I also doubt Reform will either - I think people seem to be starting to find them out as essentially a party of the rich and for the rich, and one which is distinctly in bed with the current rogue US government which isn't exactly popular here.

Conceivable Reform come first on a low percentage (20%, assuming they continue to steadily decline), but I doubt that will win them a majority. A coalition of some kind seems to be a certainty; biggest risk is a Tory-Reform coalition I suspect, though I can imagine a lot of Tories might jump ship if that were a realistic outcome.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Maybe you disagree with it but millions of people in the UK would support a lower tax regime and paying what is required.

And yet those same people, and the politicians of that persuasion, cannot seem to actually identify exactly what public spending to cut in order to afford that.

This is exactly what the stupid Reform "Dodge" groups found in local councils. There just isnt actually huge amounts of wasteful spending that would let you cut taxes in a meaningful way and not infact frontline services and commitments.

 

[styles]

And yet those same people, and the politicians of that persuasion, cannot seem to actually identify exactly what public spending to cut in order to afford that.

This is exactly what the stupid Reform "Dodge" groups found in local councils. There just isnt actually huge amounts of wasteful spending that would let you cut taxes in a meaningful way and not infact frontline services and commitments.

You don't need to make cuts to lower taxes. It's an economy, not a current account. Not really a Reform topic that though as they're the same as Labour, Tories, and Lib Dems in this regard, just with tweaked numbers.

I can't remember what Reform have promised for their spending cuts but from memory it was a combination of cutting waste, stopping quantitative easing interest payments, and removing green and net zero subsidies. They've probably got some sort of cost associated to immigration as well but they'd have to do some pretty in depth work modelling their immigration policy changes because immigrants on average make a net positive contribution to the economy, so they'd have to separate out the 'good' immigrants they want to keep and the 'bad' immigrants they don't, and work out what each of their average contributions are. Which, I doubt they've done somehow.

 

[Harpo]

they'd have to separate out the 'good' immigrants they want to keep and the 'bad' immigrants they don't, and work out what each of their average contributions are. Which, I doubt they've done somehow.

Couldn’t get the fag packet off Nige.

 

[styles]

Couldn’t get the fag packet off Nige.

Now be fair, it's often cigars these days.

 

[DarloRich]

Farage and his Reform goons held a big rally at the Arena yesterday. Tickets cost £5. I also noticed Farage was in the local media serving fish and chips at one of the shops in town. The name of the chippie was visible on the apron he was wearing.

That fish shop will never get a penny of my money and I am pleased to see that my boycott of the MK Dongs will have to continue.

Ah, the fresh clean air of the moral high ground.....................

 

[bleeder4]

Farage and his Reform goons held a big rally at the Arena yesterday. Tickets cost £5. I also noticed Farage was in the local media serving fish and chips at one of the shops in town. The name of the chippie was visible on the apron he was wearing.

That fish shop will never get a penny of my money and I am pleased to see that my boycott of the MK Dongs will have to continue.

Ah, the fresh clean air of the moral high ground.....................

How far do you go with that sort of stuff though? Do you boycott the company who manufactured the apron he wore? Do you boycott the taxi company who conveyed him to the event? Do you boycott any other shops he popped into on the way to have his photo taken? Do you boycott the bakery that baked the cake for the event? The number of companies that each of us gives money to in the course of a typical month, it's inevitable that a proportion of them will have political views that don't align with ours.

 

[DarloRich]

How far do you go with that sort of stuff though? Do you boycott the company who manufactured the apron he wore? Do you boycott the taxi company who conveyed him to the event? Do you boycott any other shops he popped into on the way to have his photo taken? Do you boycott the bakery that baked the cake for the event? The number of companies that each of us gives money to in the course of a typical month, it's inevitable that a proportion of them will have political views that don't align with ours.

how far? as I far as I feel appropriate. I don't like Farage or his gang and if you are supporting them and I can identify the same I wont be spending my money with you. I don't go in Wetherspoons for similar reasons.

This is of course entirely personal, subjective and hypocritical but I am comfortable with that. Plus my local fish shop is better

PS - Farage wont be getting a taxi around here. They are all driven by people he wants to lob out of the country

 

[ainsworth74]

PS - Farage wont be getting a taxi around here. They are all driven by people he wants to lob out of the country

He's got a chauffer doesn't he? Not sure he'd mingle with the common folk driving around in taxis!

 

[The exile]

How far do you go with that sort of stuff though? Do you boycott the company who manufactured the apron he wore? Do you boycott the taxi company who conveyed him to the event? Do you boycott any other shops he popped into on the way to have his photo taken? Do you boycott the bakery that baked the cake for the event? The number of companies that each of us gives money to in the course of a typical month, it's inevitable that a proportion of them will have political views that don't align with ours.

There is a difference between a true commercial transaction involving Reform (I suspect a taxi company might be in breach of its licence if it declined a hire purely because of who the customer was - though I’m sure there would be ways of fudging it) and a company which agrees to a political stunt. In the example of the bakery - if they were paid the commercial rate for the cake and didn’t try to gain publicity out of it; it’s a very different situation from if they sponsored the cake or milked the event for their own benefit.
The same applies to any other legal political party, of course.

 

[D1537]

There is a difference between a true commercial transaction involving Reform and a company which agrees to a political stunt.

The same applies to any other legal political party, of course.

Indeed. I remember the spectacular amount of backpedalling done by Heck Sausages when they invited Boris Johnson there during the Conservative leadership contest and said they'd make "Boris Bangers", only to find that many of their customers weren't avid fans of Brexit...

 

[brad465]

Plaid would like to thank Farage for providing free campaign material for the rest of the Senedd election campaign:

Nigel Farage criticised for Welsh 'foreign speakers' Cameo video

Reform UK's leader made the comment in a paid-for video message on the Cameo app.

www.bbc.co.uk

Reform UK leader Nigel Farage has been criticised by rival parties for describing Welsh people as "foreign speakers" in a paid-for video message.
Farage made the comment in a recorded greeting where he said he was "gutted" to be unable to attend a wedding because half of the number of guests were Welsh.
Labour, Plaid Cymru, the Conservatives and other parties criticised Farage's video, which was supplied via the Cameo video platform through which celebrities record messages for a fee.
A spokesperson for Farage said the videos "should not be treated as political statements or campaign activity".
The video was found by the Guardian, external, with seven weeks to go before Wales' Senedd election in which Reform is vying to lead the next Welsh government.

Users of Cameo write a short prompt for their chosen celebrity, and pay a fee for a clip that usually lasts less than a minute.

In the clip, the Reform leader said: "Gutted I couldn't attend the wedding. I wanted to come, but I heard that half the guests were Welsh and, I don't know. Who knows what would have happened with all those foreign speakers there. I don't know."

According to the Guardian the Cameo user had asked Farage to record a wedding message for "Toby and Sam" in July 2025, and to follow a script which would include him saying the number of Welsh guests were "far too many foreigners for me".

Rival political parties criticised the video when it emerged on Thursday.

Welsh Conservative Senedd leader Darren Millar called it a "gross insult to the people of Wales".

"These comments suggest that Reform UK doesn't care about Wales, our language, our culture or our heritage," he said.

A Welsh Labour spokesperson said: "Here we have it clear as day - Farage's disdain for the people of Wales and the Welsh language."

In a post on X, Plaid Cymru said Reform "was not fit to be anywhere near power in Wales".

Welsh Liberal Democrat leader Jane Dodds described Farage's comment as "disgraceful", saying it showed a "sneering ignorance".

The Wales Green Party said: "Farage has no respect for Wales at all."

A party spokesperson accused him of making "glib remarks about us like one more group of people to aim his hatred at".

James Evans, a Reform Member of the Senedd (MS), told BBC Wales that while it was for Farage to answer for his own words, the Welsh language was "very important" to the party.

He added: "Wales, let me be very clear, is a bilingual nation. We speak English and Welsh, and whatever language you speak, you should feel welcome in our country."

Farage has created a number of videos through the Cameo app, and payments to him from it were among the financial interests he inadvertently failed to register within a 28-day time limit which led to him breaching MPs' rules in January.

A spokesperson for Farage said: "A Cameo is a short personalised message requested by members of the public and should not be treated as political statements or campaign activity."

Recent polling suggests that Plaid Cymru and Reform are vying for top spot in May's Senedd election as Labour fights to hold on to power in Cardiff Bay.

 

[35B]

Plaid would like to thank Farage for providing free campaign material for the rest of the Senedd election campaign:

Nigel Farage criticised for Welsh 'foreign speakers' Cameo video

Reform UK's leader made the comment in a paid-for video message on the Cameo app.

www.bbc.co.uk

Free? Or did they pay for the video?

 

[D1537]

I didn't think I'd ever feel sorry for a Reform politician, but I have to sympathise (slightly) with the Welsh Reform guy, who managed to give a lucid quote despite the fact he must have spent most of the afternoon banging his head against the nearest wall.

Meanwhile in the Guardian story

" In other videos, he repeated a motto associated with the UK far right, referenced antisemitic conspiracy theories, and made misogynistic remarks about leftwing politicians, including a comment about the US congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s breasts."
"Farage has charged more than £370,000 for these clips."
"On Tuesday, when asked how his aides should respond to questions from the Guardian about his use of Cameo, Farage suggested “go **** yourself”, according to a report in the Spectator"

Guardian link
Spectator (paywalled) link

 

[sor]

In regards to the Cameo stuff, I think it's worth posting this old interview from Irish TV where he was asked about a video in which he said "up the Ra". Extremely amusing to see him squirm when the interviewer isn't in the UK and isn't a client journalist seeking to stay in his good books.

A shame we don't see more of this from British media.

how far? as I far as I feel appropriate. I don't like Farage or his gang and if you are supporting them and I can identify the same I wont be spending my money with you. I don't go in Wetherspoons for similar reasons.

This is of course entirely personal, subjective and hypocritical but I am comfortable with that. Plus my local fish shop is better

PS - Farage wont be getting a taxi around here. They are all driven by people he wants to lob out of the country

For me, Wetherspoons is worthy of a boycott because of the time they once posted their "news" magazine to a load of people, myself included, when it happened to be the issue about how great Brexit and "free trade" will be for their business. It wasn't directly addressed to me so it was probably one of those mass mailings that everyone in the postcode gets.

 

[DarloRich]

In regards to the Cameo stuff,

I see Lee Anderson is in on the Cameo game to. Silly fella filmed them in his parliamentary office. You would think the vast coin from GBeebies would be enough but it seems not! Nothing says I love you like a Lee Anderson cameo video for valentines day!

The Reform UK MP Lee Anderson has used his parliamentary office to record paid-for personalised messaging videos, in a possible breach of rules that prohibit the commercial use of the Palace of Westminster.

Anderson, who had already been warned about commercial filming in Westminster, sold two videos filmed from what he called the “beating heart of democracy in Westminster” in early February 2025.

Both were Valentine’s Day messages sold for £45 and £56 via the video messaging app Cameo, which enables the public to commission short clips from celebrities and public figures.

Lee Anderson filmed paid-for Cameo videos at parliament in possible rules breach

Reform MP made Valentine’s Day clips for platform despite previous warning about commercial filming

www.theguardian.com

EDIT: Farage is stopping doing Cameo videos for "security reasons". I assume what he has been saying and receiving payment for so far has been "insecure:

Earlier this week, the Guardian reported, external that, in one of the the messages, Farage suggested an event by a Canadian neo-Nazi group could be seen as "the best thing that ever happened" and in another had made a comment about the breasts of a US congresswoman.

Nigel Farage pauses Cameo account for security reasons, says Reform UK

It comes after a Guardian investigation suggests the party leader recorded supportive messages for a convicted rioter and a neo-Nazi event.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[brad465]

Next up in why all political donations/bribes should be banned and strictly enforced:

Nigel Farage received £5m from donor Christopher Harborne before he became an MP

The Reform leader says the gift was for his personal security - but opponents say he should have declared it.

www.bbc.co.uk

Nigel Farage received £5m from Reform UK mega donor Christopher Harborne before he became an MP, it has emerged.
In an interview with The Telegraph, external, the Reform UK leader said he had been given the money to pay for personal protection "so that I would be safe and secure for the rest of my life".
He also told the newspaper his home had been targeted last year in a firebomb attack.
Labour and the Conservatives have both accused Farage of breaking Commons rules by not declaring the £5m gift in the register of interests, with the Tories saying they had referred the Reform leader to the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner.
Harborne, a British cryptocurrency investor who lives in Thailand, last year donated £9m to Reform UK - the biggest single donation to a UK political party by a living person.
In total, the businessman gave £12m to Reform in 2025 and has donated to the Conservatives in the past.
The separate £5m gift to Farage came in early 2024, Reform sources told the BBC, and it does not appear on his MP register of interests.
Labour Party chair Anna Turley said Farage "appears to have broken the rules again by failing to declare this cash from his billionaire backer".
Conservative party chair Kevin Hollinrake said that as a new MP, he should have declared the gift, adding: "Why does Reform think the rules don't apply to them?
"This stinks and Reform should come clean now."
Farage's team say there was no requirement to declare the money because it was a personal gift.
A Reform UK spokesman said: "This was a personal unconditional gift that was given before he was elected. We are confident everything has been declared in accordance with the rules."
The spokesman accused the Conservatives of putting Farage's safety at risk by denying him state-funded protection when they were in power.
The Commons code of conduct states that new MPs "must register all their current financial interests, and any registrable benefits (other than earnings) received in the 12 months before their election within one month of their election".
Farage announced he was standing to be the MP for Clacton on 4 June, 2024, and that he was taking over as Reform UK's leader.
In his Telegraph interview, Farage said Harborne had become concerned about his level of protection when a milkshake was thrown at him in 2019, as he was campaigning in Newcastle for the Brexit Party.
"I have tried and failed in the past to get security funded by the Home Office and I don't think the state will ever help me," Farage told the newspaper.
"I'm very much on my own and will be for the rest of my life, and I have to face up to that grim reality.
"Christopher is an ardent supporter who is deeply concerned for my safety."
Speaking about the attack on his home in early 2025, Farage told The Telegraph a lit device was pushed through his letterbox in an "outright arson attempt" when he was not in.
He found the damage when he returned home and "luckily it had burned itself out in the porch".
Police investigated the incident but have not identified any suspects.
Farage told The Telegraph he was speaking about the attack for the first time because he had been concerned that doing so earlier would force him to boost his safety measures further.
Asked about the attack in an interview with BBC Radio Wiltshire, he said: "My worry about it is if that if it continues down this path you'll finish up with good people who should go into public life just not doing it and that's a real concern."

 

[martin butler]

Reform is expected to do well at the local elections, this I think will be their undoing, and here's why,

Those who supported, and voted for them, will have done on the back of expectations, that can't be met, there is no waste to be cut, no scope for savings, many councils are broke, and only spending on bare essentials, or on things they have to provide by law,

The xenophobes and racists, will expect councils to close down asylum centres, to remove them from this country, Councils don't have that power, but try telling that to the flag hugging mob, what will be closed down, will be children's centres, advice groups etc, harming the very people who voted for them,

I think that reform will be exposed for what it is, its supporters, those with a brain, will realise it does not have the answers they are looking for.

 

[ainsworth74]

Reform is expected to do well at the local elections, this I think will be their undoing, and here's why,

Those who supported, and voted for them, will have done on the back of expectations, that can't be met, there is no waste to be cut, no scope for savings, many councils are broke, and only spending on bare essentials, or on things they have to provide by law,

The xenophobes and racists, will expect councils to close down asylum centres, to remove them from this country, Councils don't have that power, but try telling that to the flag hugging mob, what will be closed down, will be children's centres, advice groups etc, harming the very people who voted for them,

I think that reform will be exposed for what it is, its supporters, those with a brain, will realise it does not have the answers they are looking for.

Whilst I would like for you to be correct I worry that you may be overestimating peoples understanding who is actually responsible for what (i.e. what is Local Government vs National Government), how Council funding actually works (see all the people that complain that Council Tax goes up and services get worse which is to be expected due to funding constraints placed on Councils), and how smoothly the Reform favourable media and hangers on will lie about who is to blame and will happily amplify the excuses made by Reform led councils.

I think it will do damage to them to be sure, I don't think it will be fatal to them in a national electoral context.

That will require a lessening of the ever present howl for change, any change, just make it change that voters keep sending to politicians and continues to not yield any changes no matter who they vote for.

 

[Horizon22]

Whilst I would like for you to be correct I worry that you may be overestimating peoples understanding who is actually responsible for what (i.e. what is Local Government vs National Government), how Council funding actually works (see all the people that complain that Council Tax goes up and services get worse which is to be expected due to funding constraints placed on Councils), and how smoothly the Reform favourable media and hangers on will lie about who is to blame and will happily amplify the excuses made by Reform led councils.

We are of course coming to the end of this - for local government at least - in the next few years with the merging of county and local borough councils into unitary authorities.

But a lot of Reform supporters (and indeed some of their publicity) seems to be about voting "Starmer out" when of course these elections are nothing of the sort. The only way that could happen is if Labour do so disastorously they have an internal coup and select a new leader.

 

[35B]

Next up in why all political donations/bribes should be banned and strictly enforced:

Nigel Farage received £5m from donor Christopher Harborne before he became an MP

The Reform leader says the gift was for his personal security - but opponents say he should have declared it.

www.bbc.co.uk

I think it's demonstrating quite effectively how public declarations matter, and how tricky answers undermine the politician giving them.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Reform is expected to do well at the local elections, this I think will be their undoing, and here's why,

Those who supported, and voted for them, will have done on the back of expectations, that can't be met, there is no waste to be cut, no scope for savings, many councils are broke, and only spending on bare essentials, or on things they have to provide by law,

The xenophobes and racists, will expect councils to close down asylum centres, to remove them from this country, Councils don't have that power, but try telling that to the flag hugging mob, what will be closed down, will be children's centres, advice groups etc, harming the very people who voted for them,

I think that reform will be exposed for what it is, its supporters, those with a brain, will realise it does not have the answers they are looking for.

You forget that people are so disgusted with the last 30-40 years they know longer care if what they vote for smashes it all to pieces

 

[Robin Edwards]

You forget that people are so disgusted with the last 30-40 years they know longer care if what they vote for smashes it all to pieces

The thing is that in that timescale, the country has been led by a Tory government for 70% and yet many of the ever-so-disgusted are their very voters who like to blame someone else for the things they find disgusting