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I've seen it done on the Wensleydale to bring the van onto the tiny platform at Finghall Lane so a wheelchair user could board, I seem to recall the train stopped as normal then the guard stood on the platform and made a sort of circular motion with his raised hand to indicate to the driver to slowly move forward and then stopped that when the van was on the platform.
It's a standard hand signal even on the national network still, they're all defined in the rule book. "Move away" is a hand rotated in a circular motion in front of the chest (much easier to show than describe!). A white light swung backwards and forwards at the side of the person means the same thing in the dark.
They're mostly used for stabling stock in the correct location now but I use them occasionally with modern units - telling the driver on 158 or 170 DMUs to reposition the train to allow me to put a ramp down between the canopy columns at Norwich is the usual reason.
For many years up to 2015, I used to arrange railtours on behalf of local railway societies from Hooton. Usually routed via Shrewsbury and the Marches line. The train was 11 coaches and the short intermediate stations were Bache and Gobowen. No problem with pick up, but set down was a different matter. Yes drawing up was practised. The DB Cargo, and later DRS crews (I suspect the same personnel) were on top of the brief, using radios to execute the manoeuvre precisely. Although the stock had central door locking (Riviera), all doors were opened and a willing army of volunteer stewards prevented passengers jumping from unplatformed coaches.
I hope enough years have passed not to get anyone in to trouble with this story.
I have seen it done once maybe 3-4 years ago when a 4-car 158 stopped at Llanfairpwll heading towards Holyhead. Normally of course the guard gets all the passengers from the rear of the train to come with them to the end of the front coach for local door operation. But in this case there was a person with a bike in the back who had no chance of walking through with it so the guard let the other passengers off in the normal way, closed the door and buzzed the driver to draw forward, and then buzzed them again to stop. Good customer service really!
I remember drawing up twice at Llanfairfechan and Penmaenmawr on the infamous Class 40-hauled 09.10 Holyhead to London Euston in the late 1970s, which was all stations except Shotton between Bangor and Crewe. It contributed to the habitual 20-minute lateness arriving at Chester.
I saw a YouTube video by a disability rights activist who encountered a situation at Kings Cross where an LNER Azuma stopped with the door awkwardly in front of an escalator, which narrowed the platform too much for the ramp to be deployed. He was repeatedly told it was simply impossible for the train to be moved a few inches along the platform - in the end, after two hours of negotiation, they did close the doors, move the train a few inches, and re-open. But the strength of the resistance to this and the need to obtain some sort of special permission suggest it was seen as really beyond the pale.
I saw a YouTube video by a disability rights activist who encountered a situation at Kings Cross where an LNER Azuma stopped with the door awkwardly in front of an escalator, which narrowed the platform too much for the ramp to be deployed. He was repeatedly told it was simply impossible for the train to be moved a few inches along the platform - in the end, after two hours of negotiation, they did close the doors, move the train a few inches, and re-open. But the strength of the resistance to this and the need to obtain some sort of special permission suggest it was seen as really beyond the pale.
It's a bit of a faff because you have to close the doors when people are trying to board not understanding what you're doing but it's nothing drastic. Call to the signaller for authority to move, lock the train up, clear understanding between the driver, guard and platform staff as to what is required to happen and get on with it.
I think part of the issue is with driver door release trains in particular there's a lot of focus about stopping trains in precise positions to avoid door irregularities and deviating from that is seen to be more of an issue than it is as a one off.
The Ghan is split in two at Adelaide and loaded separately to enable embarkation and has to draw up certainly at Alice Springs due to the length of the train. I’ll be checking out the Indian Pacific manoeuvres in February!
When Carstairs was being rebuilt in the early 1970s, the platform was shortened at the south end but before the equivalent extension was constructed at the North end, the few WCML services running via Carstairs had to double draw at the station.
I can remember a couple of stations where drawing up was prohibited.
Oakham on the up and Long Eaton on the down.
I know at Long Eaton it was because the strike-in treadle for Sawley AHB level crossing was immediately after the station but can't remember the exact reason at Oakham, possibly a similar thing with Brooke Road AHB.
Slightly of topic was on the The Indian Pacific at Sydney in 2010. Train stopped a few miles before Sydney Central and train was divided in 2 and taken into Sydney central as 2 portions, interestingly the train had been double headed since Adelaide and lococ were split each taking a portion forward
A close relation was at Woking a while ago during some disruption, where an Up 4-car service had stopped correctly at the 4-car mark. After a short while a PA announcement was "Train on the Up Local draw up to the 12 car mark for the addition of another portion on the rear". And so we did.
That buzzer code still exists. It is still used occasionally nowadays. I saw a guard use it last year when the driver stopped in the wrong position (they thought they had a 4 car when it was actually an 8 car) so the guard contacted the driver and then gave six on the buzzer and the driver moved forward to the correct stopping point.
I presume they then have to give a single ring or buzz to tell them to stop when they have reached the correct stopping point.
I would guess that the "drawing up" bell/buzzer code was often used on DMU and EMU specials run for things like football matches and other major events such as the Pope's visit in 1982 if passengers attending the said event were boarding or alighting at a station with a platform that was too short to take the entire unit formation at a time.
I presume they then have to give a single ring or buzz to tell them to stop when they have reached the correct stopping point.
I would guess that the "drawing up" bell/buzzer code was often used on DMU and EMU specials run for things like football matches and other major events such as the Pope's visit in 1982 if passengers attending the said event were boarding or alighting at a station with a platform that was too short to take the entire unit formation at a time.
No they do not give the 1 bell code. I have never seen that done. If the driver stops in the wrong position then the policy is for the guard to contact the driver and inform them and then give 6 on the bells and the driver moves forward to the correct stop board. It would be very difficult for the guard to give a 1 bell code as they would be unable to see the correct stop point once the doors are closed. It is the drivers responsibility to stop at the correct point once the guard gives them 6 on the bells.
The bell code of 1 is only really ever used for an emergency stop. For example if the guard spots someone too close to the edge of the train as it is pulling away. Or any other reason needing the driver to immediately stop.
Slightly of topic was on the The Indian Pacific at Sydney in 2010. Train stopped a few miles before Sydney Central and train was divided in 2 and taken into Sydney central as 2 portions, interestingly the train had been double headed since Adelaide and lococ were split each taking a portion forward
It does this the other way as well. I went from Sydney in 2000 and the coaches were on two adjacent platforms and then formed together about an hour before departure.
Still the best train journey i've ever had
No they do not give the 1 bell code. I have never seen that done. If the driver stops in the wrong position then the policy is for the guard to contact the driver and inform them and then give 6 on the bells and the driver moves forward to the correct stop board. It would be very difficult for the guard to give a 1 bell code as they would be unable to see the correct stop point once the doors are closed. It is the drivers responsibility to stop at the correct point once the guard gives them 6 on the bells.
The bell code of 1 is only really ever used for an emergency stop. For example if the guard spots someone too close to the edge of the train as it is pulling away. Or any other reason needing the driver to immediately stop.
In that case, how is the driver supposed to know where the correct stopping point is? I presume the guard has to brief the driver (or the driver has to be briefed about this when signing on at the start of their shift) about the station(s) where they will need to draw up and how many coach lengths they will need to move forward when the guard gives the 6 bell/buzzer code.
In that case, how is the driver supposed to know where the correct stopping point is? I presume the guard has to brief the driver (or the driver has to be briefed about this when signing on at the start of their shift) about the station(s) where they will need to draw up and how many coach lengths they will need to move forward when the guard gives the 6 bell/buzzer code.
Because the platforms have stop boards to show the driver where to stop for which train length. Normally what happens is that the driver forgets the length of their train and accidentally stops at the wrong board. So for example they might have an 8 car train but stop at the "4 car stop" board instead of at the "8 car stop" board which means that not all carriages are platformed. So all they have to do after getting 6 bells from the guard is move the train forward up the platform to the correct board. It is very simple procedure and only happens occassionally.
In the context of this thread I think the question relates to a long train serving a short platform. Sometimes stop boards were provided off the platform ends - I recall them at the smaller Cornish stations for Summer Saturday HSTs - but at other stations it's unclear how the driver would know where to stop to platform the rear part of a long train, unless someone at the back gave them a signal.
No they do not give the 1 bell code. I have never seen that done. If the driver stops in the wrong position then the policy is for the guard to contact the driver and inform them and then give 6 on the bells and the driver moves forward to the correct stop board. It would be very difficult for the guard to give a 1 bell code as they would be unable to see the correct stop point once the doors are closed. It is the drivers responsibility to stop at the correct point once the guard gives them 6 on the bells.
The bell code of 1 is only really ever used for an emergency stop. For example if the guard spots someone too close to the edge of the train as it is pulling away. Or any other reason needing the driver to immediately stop.
At a TOC I used to work for we quite frequently gave 1 on the buzzer to stop when the driver had drawn forward.
The trains were all of different lengths and/or formations, so it was by no means unknown for a driver to stop a bit short.
The procedure was for the guard to go to the rearmost door (if not already there), give 6 and then give 1 when the door got onto the platform.
It wasn't always possible to judge a "normal" stopping point. For example 2x142 would have been 60m long, 2x158 92m, 1x142 plus 1x158 76m.
I should mention that in the last few years a great effort has been made to provide stop boards that can be used by all trains, for example just having an "S- car stop" board at the very end of the platform that all trains can use, rather than the previous system of trying to provide different boards for all possible trains.
Plus the withdrawal of 14x's and many 150's means that stock is usually a more standard length now, generally around 23m per car.
And of course moving up because the driver has stopped short is different to the OP's meaning of "drawing forward".
The latter is still in the rule book just in case, but I couldn't tell you where if anywhere it is still used.
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In the context of this thread I think the question relates to a long train serving a short platform. Sometimes stop boards were provided off the platform ends - I recall them at the smaller Cornish stations for Summer Saturday HSTs - but at other stations it's unclear how the driver would know where to stop to platform the rear part of a long train, unless someone at the back gave them a signal.
Certainly by the 90s if stop boards weren't provided off the end of the platform I believe the procedure was not to draw forward, and instead to walk the passengers through to a coach which was at the platform.
I recall a summer -only Hull-Scarborough-York-Glasgow HST (c.1992?) which was too long for the Wolds Coast stations such as Filey. The affected stations were written in white-on-black on the window labels to indicate a short platform where not all vehicles would fit.
Otherwise hand signals would be used, with the driver looking back along the train and the guard indicating to move forward. Usually in this situation the guard would be leaning out of the train window, rather than on the platform as described up thread. The only difference is that "stop" would be conveyed by one arm held out horizontally, rather than two above the head (impossible whilst leaning out of a window!). Or indeed by bell/buzzer if available; the exact method used would usually be a local instruction for the station involved.
Portion working happened until relatively recently at Wellingborough on platform 3.
Until the platform was extended (4/5 years ago) if due to a 10 car 222 arriving on P3 vice P1 the train would stop with the front 4 cars platformed, the passengers in the front unit would alight and the TM would close the doors, the train would move forward and when the rear unit was in the platform depending on which way around the train was the TM in the rear unit would only open the catering door by the old cafe or the crew door in the Kitchen. The train would then depart.
The reason this happened would be due to engineering works on the fast lines, or the train was formed of 10 vice 5 cars, or if the train was moved fast line to slow at Sharnbrook junction for out of course working.
I recall many years ago before the platform at Loughborough was lengthened, that half of it was being re-built. Unfortunately either the announcement asked people to move to the wrong half of the train, or the driver stopped in the wrong place. Result: dozens of people walking through the train, running into other people that had just boarded. It took quite a while before they could get moving again.
It does this the other way as well. I went from Sydney in 2000 and the coaches were on two adjacent platforms and then formed together about an hour before departure.
Still the best train journey i've ever had
As well as the 6 bell/buzzer code on DMUs and EMUs, did guards or train dispatchers ever blow their whistle six times to tell a loco-hauled train to draw up, or did they just use the circular motion hand signal described upthread?
As well as the 6 bell/buzzer code on DMUs and EMUs, did guards or train dispatchers ever blow their whistle six times to tell a loco-hauled train to draw up, or did they just use the circular motion hand signal described upthread?
No they do not give the 1 bell code. I have never seen that done. If the driver stops in the wrong position then the policy is for the guard to contact the driver and inform them and then give 6 on the bells and the driver moves forward to the correct stop board. It would be very difficult for the guard to give a 1 bell code as they would be unable to see the correct stop point once the doors are closed. It is the drivers responsibility to stop at the correct point once the guard gives them 6 on the bells.
The bell code of 1 is only really ever used for an emergency stop. For example if the guard spots someone too close to the edge of the train as it is pulling away. Or any other reason needing the driver to immediately stop.
Not all platforms have stop boards and yes, the guard give one on the buzzer to stop in a position different to normal having come to a clear understanding with the driver that that will happen.
Example I've used is detraining a wheelchair user on a platform with a Harrington Hump raised section. The driver has no idea where to stop, so I tell them to roll in slowly and I give one on the buzzer to stop the train where I want it.
It does this the other way as well. I went from Sydney in 2000 and the coaches were on two adjacent platforms and then formed together about an hour before departure.
Still the best train journey i've ever had
In the context of this thread I think the question relates to a long train serving a short platform. Sometimes stop boards were provided off the platform ends - I recall them at the smaller Cornish stations for Summer Saturday HSTs -
Was very prominent at Lincoln St Marks, where London boubnd trains had to stop with the rear clear of the boarded crossing which was the only access between the platforms, but the platforms could only accomodate about four coaches. prominent markers set one coach length apart indicating where a driver should stop according to the leb=ngth of his train.
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I was told that drawing forward happened five times yesterday at the station I was at, due to drivers mishandling the brake and stopping short.
It was a Driving Experience day, and yes, i was one of the drivers.
(I did stop in more or less the right place on the way out, but botched it on the way back)
Loco-hauled, so flag signals from the guard that it was safe to draw forward, rather than a buzzer
Yes, probably at least during calls at stations where large numbers of passengers would have boarded and/or alighted, such as Machynlleth and Barmouth.
I believe that in the 1970s and 80s, and maybe to some extent even in the steam era, enthusiasts would often cling to the side of a train for about one second as it arrived at a station just so they could count that train's loco for haulage. I expect they might have also sometimes sneaked onto a train that was about to draw up and then walked through from the last coach in the front portion to the first coach in the rear portion and alighted once it had moved forward, again just to get the loco for haulage.
Had to do this much more recently when driver forgot we had a 153 on attached to a 156 and I didn't think any passengers would want to alight on the level crossing.........
