Reform UK discussion

[The exile]

Tell me you're a far-right-winger without telling me you're a far-right-winger!

Re-reading the original post, it all goes to show the danger of a pronoun which can be interpreted in two ways (exactly who is “they” in the big sentence?)

 

[contrex]

the Chavos deal

Is that to do with Jaywick? Freudian slip, or what?

 

[Harpo]

Is that to do with Jaywick? Freudian slip, or what?

Fat finger syndrome! Helped with a gig at a Jaywick holiday camp once. Seemed to be all chain smokers covered in tattoos. The blokes were worse.

 

[DarloRich]

They appear to be targeting Bletchley.....

they are - had several leaflets recently. @Bletchleyite might have had some to down his end.

Bletchley & Fenny is an area where there is a large, older, white population who have been here for a long time ( perhaps missing the chance to move out somewhere different and now cant) and a more recent large immigrant /non white/non British community who are responsible for the area "changing" apparently.

However, where I live the street/local area HAS changed. I have lived in Fenny for 17 years and this house for nearly 10 now and when I moved in the houses were all owned by older almost entirely white people. As they move to different accommodation or die the houses are bought either by Asian families or for rent which makes for a different and in many cases transient community. It wasn't an attractive area when I bought but it was what I could afford.

I GET why people of an older generation might think they way to do and GET why they might think Reform are on thier side and will turn back the clock to when the area was filled with people who look like them. It wont happen though and your home help is going to be a problem when those Nigerian staff get chucked out..........

Apparently the Mosque is the reason for the change. I think that plays some part but the real reason imo is immigrant workers doing low paid jobs living in HMO which were once occupied by single working families.

 

[Gloster]

I received a few weeks ago a leaflet advertising Farage’s visit to the Isle of Wight last week and offering the chance to hear him speak at a riding centre near Newport. It was three quarters electioneering and one quarter advertising. I didn’t take up the offer so I couldn’t tell whether he was charging for entry or somebody else was covering the costs; I doubt if he was footing the bill.

Claims on the front about what the Reform-run councils have done were:

- Saved hundreds of millions of pounds wasted by previous Tory and Labour councils
- Made sure we spend council taxpayers’ money on local services like road repairs
- Kept council tax rises lower on average than any other political party in the country
- Fought to stop local hotels being used to house illegal immigrants at taxpayers’ expense

I am dubious about at least three of these and one is oxymoronic: how can you save money if it has already been wasted?

 

[DarloRich]

- Saved hundreds of millions of pounds wasted by previous Tory and Labour councils
- Made sure we spend council taxpayers’ money on local services like road repairs
- Kept council tax rises lower on average than any other political party in the country
- Fought to stop local hotels being used to house illegal immigrants at taxpayers’ expense

same topics for me but with crime and imprisonment replacing local taxation

 

[SuspectUsual]

Kept council tax rises lower on average than any other political party in the country

This is such a meaningless piece of information, whether it's true or untrue. Every council sets its council tax in isolation, and they all have totally different circumstances. A council which kept the increase down last year may struggle to do so again this year and vice versa. The state of each council's finances will be different, both from the point of view of what's gone before / long term debt and the current demands / operating deficit. The demographics will all be different to some degree.

But it does seem to be an increasing "thing" with politicians to brag about a smaller than might have been expected increase as being a saving. Absolute twaddle

I am dubious about at least three of these and one is oxymoronic: how can you save money if it has already been wasted?

I assume they mean they're stopping wasting more?

 

[35B]

This is such a meaningless piece of information, whether it's true or untrue. Every council sets its council tax in isolation, and they all have totally different circumstances. A council which kept the increase down last year may struggle to do so again this year and vice versa. The state of each council's finances will be different, both from the point of view of what's gone before / long term debt and the current demands / operating deficit. The demographics will all be different to some degree.

But it does seem to be an increasing "thing" with politicians to brag about a smaller than might have been expected increase as being a saving. Absolute twaddle

The absolute level would make more sense, but even there requires close attention to context

 

[Bletchleyite]

they are - had several leaflets recently. @Bletchleyite might have had some to down his end.

Yep, I got one. It went straight in the bin.

Round by me there hasn't been a huge demographic change, it (Rivers estate) is still primarily white, with a very high proportion of working class self employed (who are typically better off than "working class" might imply) - lots of trade vans on driveways for instance. Though I would suspect high Reform voting among that demographic. I think it's more Central Bletchley and Fenny where there has been a shift (most notably Duncombe St and through Water Eaton), and maybe the Lakes Estate, and I would agree there's a chance that the mosque by the double roundabout is part of the reason for that - much more convenient than driving to the one in Granby (?).

 

[Bayum]

Presumably those playing the “WOKE NONSENSE!” card have failed to notice the person that has been depicted on the £50 note for some time (for international readers who may not be familiar with British currency, that person is Alan Turing, famous computer scientist and a gay man at a time when that was illegal in the UK. He also played an important role in defeating a far right fascist regime… ).

But Turing is not their target demographic being a fan of rainbows…
Saying that, they’re apparently leading in the homosexual population…

 

[AlterEgo]

But Turing is not their target demographic being a fan of rainbows…
Saying that, they’re apparently leading in the homosexual population…

I'll bet £100 it's only the leading party with gay men.

I will also bet £100 lesbians do not like Reform.

 

[styles]

Wasn't it the Church of the Militant Elvis Party which had the highest LGBT demographics, because they had 3 members, and both the leader (Dave Bishop, formerly Labour) and the treasurer were gay?

I wonder what he's up to these days.

 

[Three-Nine]

But Turing is not their target demographic being a fan of rainbows…
Saying that, they’re apparently leading in the homosexual population…

Well, no to the first, but I really wish bloody obvious things like this were pointed out to him more often. To the second... seriously?!

 

[nr758123]

I received a few weeks ago a leaflet advertising Farage’s visit to the Isle of Wight last week and offering the chance to hear him speak at a riding centre near Newport. It was three quarters electioneering and one quarter advertising. I didn’t take up the offer so I couldn’t tell whether he was charging for entry or somebody else was covering the costs; I doubt if he was footing the bill.

Claims on the front about what the Reform-run councils have done were:

- Saved hundreds of millions of pounds wasted by previous Tory and Labour councils
- Made sure we spend council taxpayers’ money on local services like road repairs
- Kept council tax rises lower on average than any other political party in the country
- Fought to stop local hotels being used to house illegal immigrants at taxpayers’ expense

I am dubious about at least three of these and one is oxymoronic: how can you save money if it has already been wasted?

I've received what appears to be almost word for word the same leaflet and mailshot. Only the location is different.

As they say,

"Changing our countries must start in local communities."

So rather than have candidates and canvassers come to my door, asking for my support and telling me a bit about the candidates (it's an all-out election here this year, so three seats up for grabs), I'm invited to book a ticket to join N**** F***** and "your local reform candidates" at a rally in the fifth-nearest city to where I live. It's an interesting concept, having to travel some distance from home for the privilege, if such it be, of maybe meeting some local candidates.

I wonder if these local candidates know anything about local issues, or whether their only local policy is to drain the Huddersfield Narrow Canal in order to stop the boats.

I was tempted to book myself on the rally and then not attend, and encourage all my non-reformy acquaintances to do likewise, but that would be petty and childish.

 

[brad465]

But Turing is not their target demographic being a fan of rainbows…
Saying that, they’re apparently leading in the homosexual population…

I'll bet £100 it's only the leading party with gay men.

I will also bet £100 lesbians do not like Reform.

Does anyone know why gay men are common in right wing populist beliefs these days? Douglas Murray is the most well-known example I can think of. Michael Fabricant as well, though his partner Andy Street is moderate in comparison.

 

[m0ffy]

Does anyone know why gay men are common in right wing populist beliefs these days? Douglas Murray is the most well-known example I can think of. Michael Fabricant as well, though his partner Andy Street is moderate in comparison.

They’re at the top of the tree within the out group, leading some to think they’re part of the in group. I think it’s the same reason some gay men oppose trans, lesbian, and bisexual rights.

 

[Bald Rick]

Never seen a Reform leaflet here in St Albans. Nor a Reform candidate. I would really like one to come knockign though…

 

[SuspectUsual]

But Turing is not their target demographic being a fan of rainbows…
Saying that, they’re apparently leading in the homosexual population…

All we need now is a leaflet from Sarah Pochin with "the lady's not for Turing" on the front

 

[xdbjacx]

Does anyone know why gay men are common in right wing populist beliefs these days? Douglas Murray is the most well-known example I can think of. Michael Fabricant as well, though his partner Andy Street is moderate in comparison.

I am not sure that gay men really are disproportionately represented in right-wing populism. I also think that there is a troubling tendency to treat people who happen to have certain characteristics in common as some kind of bloc.

The most significant characteristics of the people listed above is that they are privately educated and Oxbridge graduates. Just like nearly everyone else who has been able to gain public prominence and exert influence.

This has never been about colour, sexuality, or gender in my opinion. It has always been about class.

 

[H F Stephens]

Never seen a Reform leaflet here in St Albans. Nor a Reform candidate. I would really like one to come knocking though…

There’s a whole world beyond AL1-4.

 

[DerekC]

Not sure I ever have, either ( it certainly wouldn't influence my decision) but unless you've lived all your life in diverse urban communities, I'm surprised you don't recognise the "you aren't from round these parts, are you?" (choose your dialect / accent) attitude. It is, of course, an attitude that is quickly suppressed if "you" turn out to be useful.

I don't think this is either new or urban or much to do with diversity - it's tribal.

I recall from about fifty years ago my first visit to the barber in the small, very rural, North Yorkshire town we had just moved to. The proprietor immediately said "You're not from round 'ere then?"

I made a big mistake after that, thinking some Northern roots would be in my favour by telling him that both my grandmothers came from Lancashire. He grumbled something about "that's over the 'ump" and gave me the shortest back and sides I have ever had!

"Incomers" was the word muttered in the pub. (It was a lovely place to live though, and the people were great really.)

 

[Bald Rick]

There’s a whole world beyond AL1-4.

Oh I know that ! I even went to AL8 once.

My point is that the Reformites don’t even try here. All the others do.

 

[317 forever]

Never seen a Reform leaflet here in St Albans. Nor a Reform candidate. I would really like one to come knockign though…

I think Remain LibDem areas are the least promising areas for Reform to break through.

 

[Essan]

Fairly confident Farage won't be canvassing round this way any time soon ....

Reform UK leader Nigel Farage has said he wishes the party "hadn't bothered" to take minority control of Worcestershire County Council, because of its financial problems.

"Worcestershire, I have to say, we took minority control of a virtually bankrupt council, I wish we hadn't bothered," he said.

When asked whether he wished his party had not won Worcestershire at the polls last year, Farage said: "No, no, no - we didn't win the election, we formed a coalition and we were always [going to be] on a hiding to nothing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c93wv0ylq9yo

He's also proven himself in recent live interviews to be a quite obnoxious little man, with less charisma than a skunk that been dead for at least 9 weeks.

 

[Purple Train]

Re-reading the original post, it all goes to show the danger of a pronoun which can be interpreted in two ways (exactly who is “they” in the big sentence?)

You're right - I was attacking Reform. Apologies!

 

[martin butler]

Fairly confident Farage won't be canvassing round this way any time soon ....



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c93wv0ylq9yo

He's also proven himself in recent live interviews to be a quite obnoxious little man, with less charisma than a skunk that been dead for at least 9 weeks.

It's easy to con the people when you're not the one being held accountable, and that's reforms problem going forward, as the lies get exposed,
Gaining power, even at local level, is the worst possible outcome for parties that base their appeal on disenchantment

Because then people ask, but you had the power, we gave you it, why didn't you do what we expected you to do, and the truth then comes out, we never had the power to do what we said we would, we can't turn back the clock, remove people you don't like from your lives.

 

[Harpo]

Because then people ask, but you had the power, we gave you it, why didn't you do what we expected you to do, and the truth then comes out, we never had the power to do what we said we would, we can't turn back the clock, remove people you don't like from your lives.

The reality that Little Puddlewick parish council can’t actually save ‘wasted millions’, mend the roads or stop the boats.

 

[Essan]

It's easy to con the people when you're not the one being held accountable, and that's reforms problem going forward, as the lies get exposed,
Gaining power, even at local level, is the worst possible outcome for parties that base their appeal on disenchantment

Because then people ask, but you had the power, we gave you it, why didn't you do what we expected you to do, and the truth then comes out, we never had the power to do what we said we would, we can't turn back the clock, remove people you don't like from your lives.

Which, of course, is what happened with Brexit - Farage "promising" that we'd save millions that would instead go to the NHS (remember the infamous bus?) - when, of course, he was never in any position (or likely to become so any time soon) to make such a promise, let alone fulfil it. Complete charlatan and con man. IMO.

 

[SuspectUsual]

There was a bloke from Reform canvassing in Thirsk yesterday. Utterly one dimensional in his replies.

I deliberately asked about policy on mainstream subjects.

Education? There’s more money per child if we get rid of the immigrants.

Transport? Um, um, um, er, sort out the A64

 

[xdbjacx]

There was a bloke from Reform canvassing in Thirsk yesterday. Utterly one dimensional in his replies.

I deliberately asked about policy on mainstream subjects.

Education? There’s more money per child if we get rid of the immigrants.

Aye, and fewer teachers, nurses, doctors and social workers. And potentially a massive reduction in the tax base.

But that’s alright because Reform’s primary electoral base believe that they have ‘paid in’ and so will always be ‘paid out’.