Unusual multiple unit couplings

[stadler]

A few other interesting multiple unit formations that i have stumbled across online recently.

Class 314 + Class 318 formation can be seen in this video here:

I have heard that a 314 + 320 has also happened but i can not find any videos or photos.

Class 314 + Class 322 formation can be seen in this video here:

I believe these were fairly common on ECS moves but i do not think it ever happened in passenger service.

There was also a rare occassion of a 317 + 322 formation on the GEML here:



I presume that a 317 + 321 formation has likely happened at some point too.

There was also this weird temporary one carriage 142 plus one carriage 143 or 144 formation at one point:



This may well be the only occassion that two different pacer classes formed a hybrid.

It seems that a rare 12car class 156 formation has happened at least once in the past:



I thought the 10car 158 and 159 that SWR run was a record for the longest sprinter but it seems not.

It seems like the odd mismatched Sprinter formations were more common than i thought:

156 - Misformed sets

super sprinter

members.madasafish.com

There was also some 3car 156 sets similar to the current 3car 150 sets that Northern have or the 3car 158 sets that GWR have. Plus some temporary 150+153 and 150+156 and 150+158 formations have happened on dozens of occassions. This article gives a good overview of many of the occassions.

Some more photos of the various unusual formations that i have found online:



















I wonder whether the class 151 was ever involved in any hybrid formations. Or did it at least couple to any other sprinter or pacer units. I can only find photos of the class 151 units working on their own but none coupled to other classes.

 

[marsker]

A few other interesting multiple unit formations that i have stumbled across online recently.

Class 314 + Class 318 formation can be seen in this video here:

I have heard that a 314 + 320 has also happened but i can not find any videos or photos.

Class 314 + Class 322 formation can be seen in this video here:

I believe these were fairly common on ECS moves but i do not think it ever happened in passenger service.

There was also a rare occassion of a 317 + 322 formation on the GEML here:

View attachment 194523

I presume that a 317 + 321 formation has likely happened at some point too.

There was also this weird temporary one carriage 142 plus one carriage 143 or 144 formation at one point:

View attachment 194524

This may well be the only occassion that two different pacer classes formed a hybrid.

It seems that a rare 12car class 156 formation has happened at least once in the past:

View attachment 194525

I thought the 10car 158 and 159 that SWR run was a record for the longest sprinter but it seems not.

It seems like the odd mismatched Sprinter formations were more common than i thought:

156 - Misformed sets

super sprinter

members.madasafish.com

There was also some 3car 156 sets similar to the current 3car 150 sets that Northern have or the 3car 158 sets that GWR have. Plus some temporary 150+153 and 150+156 and 150+158 formations have happened on dozens of occassions. This article gives a good overview of many of the occassions.

Some more photos of the various unusual formations that i have found online:

View attachment 194526

View attachment 194527

View attachment 194528

View attachment 194529

View attachment 194530

View attachment 194532

View attachment 194533

View attachment 194534

View attachment 194535

I wonder whether the class 151 was ever involved in any hybrid formations. Or did it at least couple to any other sprinter or pacer units. I can only find photos of the class 151 units working on their own but none coupled to other classes.

AI remember, the Class 150 and 151 prototypes weren't fitted with Westcode braking systems, so they could work with each other, but 8not with anything else.
I had a trip from Derby to Birmingham on one of the 150s,when it was temporarily converted to Class 154 to test the Class 158 drive and the driver told me this. He also said that the straight air brake was so much better.
The 2 Class 150s were, of course, converted to Westcode later.

 

[Barnsley]

The 0516 Hull - Sheffield this morning is formed of 170473 and 150204, the 150 is required at Sheffield for the 0635 to Lincoln (a diagram to avoid for the day if you are travelling between Leeds and Lincoln/Nottingham!)
It should have gone on last nights 2251 Hull - Sheffield, but Northern control didn't tell the crew!

 

[bluesfromagun]

A few other interesting multiple unit formations that i have stumbled across online recently.

Class 314 + Class 318 formation can be seen in this video here:

I have heard that a 314 + 320 has also happened but i can not find any videos or photos.

Class 314 + Class 322 formation can be seen in this video here:

I believe these were fairly common on ECS moves but i do not think it ever happened in passenger service.

There was also a rare occassion of a 317 + 322 formation on the GEML here:

View attachment 194523

I presume that a 317 + 321 formation has likely happened at some point too.

There was also this weird temporary one carriage 142 plus one carriage 143 or 144 formation at one point:

View attachment 194524

This may well be the only occassion that two different pacer classes formed a hybrid.

It seems that a rare 12car class 156 formation has happened at least once in the past:

View attachment 194525

I thought the 10car 158 and 159 that SWR run was a record for the longest sprinter but it seems not.

It seems like the odd mismatched Sprinter formations were more common than i thought:

156 - Misformed sets

super sprinter

members.madasafish.com

There was also some 3car 156 sets similar to the current 3car 150 sets that Northern have or the 3car 158 sets that GWR have. Plus some temporary 150+153 and 150+156 and 150+158 formations have happened on dozens of occassions. This article gives a good overview of many of the occassions.

Some more photos of the various unusual formations that i have found online:

View attachment 194526

View attachment 194527

View attachment 194528

View attachment 194529

View attachment 194530

View attachment 194532

View attachment 194533

View attachment 194534

View attachment 194535

I wonder whether the class 151 was ever involved in any hybrid formations. Or did it at least couple to any other sprinter or pacer units. I can only find photos of the class 151 units working on their own but none coupled to other classes.

The 314s (if I recall correctly) could run in multiple with 318 and 320 but the reason they didn't in passenger service is because the door controls weren't compatible.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

An un-multipled 57115 (150115) spotted on Newton Heath Depot yesterday.

 

[saismee]

An un-multipled 57115 (150115) spotted on Newton Heath Depot yesterday.
View attachment 195915

I think that one's an "Unusual multiple unit  uncoupling"

 

[sad1e]

Looking over this thread gets me wondering why Modern multiple units don't have this kind of flexibility , Why is there no mandated coupler standard that every new unit must be ordered with ?

 

[saismee]

Looking over this thread gets me wondering why Modern multiple units don't have this kind of flexibility , Why is there no mandated coupler standard that every new unit must be ordered with ?

The modern TMS on each unit would be far from compatible, so having different couplers with emergency couplers at hand is good enough. Some units, such as the 745, don't even have electrical contacts at all.

IIRC, some sprinter/turbo/pacer combinations could cause the PIS to malfunction in one of the units due to the differences in software. With modern (read: overly complex) software, this would be much worse than just broken PIS.

 

[noddingdonkey]

I believe the 142+144 Pacer hybrid shown upthread was the good halves of two damaged units that were just coupled together for convenience on the depot. I don't think it ran in service in that formation, not least because it was the two halves without a toilet.

 

[nick291]

About 10-12 years ago, I remember Greater Anglia would run a Class 317/321 combo on the Great Eastern Mainline which was an unusual sight to behold.

 

[RichardAsh1981]

Looking over this thread gets me wondering why Modern multiple units don't have this kind of flexibility , Why is there no mandated coupler standard that every new unit must be ordered with ?

Mainly because for 30 years there has been no body interested in setting such a standard (the only one capable would have been the DfT). Undoubtedly doing so would have raised capital costs (at least initially), caused much argument over decision making, and slowed down delivery. Whether the efficiency and resilience savings would have been worth it is another question.

 

[Instinct04]

Can older 377s (/1-/5) work in multiple in passenger service with the newer 377/6 and /7s?

Here is a video showing three different subclasses of the 377 together!

 

[stadler]

Can older 377s (/1-/5) work in multiple in passenger service with the newer 377/6 and /7s?

Here is a video showing three different subclasses of the 377 together!

You see that quite often these days. The 377/6 377/7 are basically 387 hardware with 377 software. As a result the 377/6 377/7 can couple to 377/1 377/2 377/3 377/4 377/5 units in passenger service but not to 387 units.

 

[nilvaj395]

You see that quite often these days. The 377/6 377/7 are basically 387 hardware with 377 software. As a result the 377/6 377/7 can couple to 377/1 377/2 377/3 377/4 377/5 units in passenger service but not to 387 units.

That's interesting. Out of curiosity, where do the 379's sit here in terms of interworking?

 

[Trains1]

An un-multipled 57115 (150115) spotted on Newton Heath Depot yesterday.
View attachment 195915

looks like it's back out today https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y25113/2026-01-20/detailed

 

[stadler]

That's interesting. Out of curiosity, where do the 379's sit here in terms of interworking?

They are the same as the other Electrostar classes. They can only couple to themselves in passenger service but not to any other Electrostar class.

The 375 can only couple to other 375 units in passenger service. The 376 can only couple to other 376 units in passenger service. The 377 can only couple to other 377 units in passenger service. The 378 can only couple to other 378 units in passenger service. The 379 can only couple to other 379 units in passenger service. The 387 can only couple to other 387 units in passenger service.

However all of the above classes can couple to each other for ECS moves. This regularly happens these days on workings to and from the depots.

The issue is that every single class of Electrostar was built with a completely different MITRAC version. This means that lots of basic things do not work if they are coupled including ASDO for short platforms and passenger alarms and the PIS for screens and automated announcements and the DOO cameras. So as a result it is not safe or permitted for two different classes of Electrostar to couple in passenger service. They can only couple for ECS moves.

It is a bit ridiculous that the same family of trains has zero compatibility. You would think that Bombardier would have thought to make them compatible. Southeasteen now have 375s and 377s on the same routes. Southern now have 377s and 387s on the same routes. Great Northern now have 379s and 387s on the same routes. It would make it much easier if they could couple in passenger service.

 

[saismee]

It is a bit ridiculous that the same family of trains has zero compatibility. You would think that Bombardier would have thought to make them compatible. Southeasteen now have 375s and 377s on the same routes. Southern now have 377s and 387s on the same routes. Great Northern now have 379s and 387s on the same routes. It would make it much easier if they could couple in passenger service.

I think allowing these units to be coupled is the least of GTR's concerns for improving service at the moment

 

[nilvaj395]

They are the same as the other Electrostar classes. They can only couple to themselves in passenger service but not to any other Electrostar class.

The 375 can only couple to other 375 units in passenger service. The 376 can only couple to other 376 units in passenger service. The 377 can only couple to other 377 units in passenger service. The 378 can only couple to other 378 units in passenger service. The 379 can only couple to other 379 units in passenger service. The 387 can only couple to other 387 units in passenger service.

However all of the above classes can couple to each other for ECS moves. This regularly happens these days on workings to and from the depots.

The issue is that every single class of Electrostar was built with a completely different MITRAC version. This means that lots of basic things do not work if they are coupled including ASDO for short platforms and passenger alarms and the PIS for screens and automated announcements and the DOO cameras. So as a result it is not safe or permitted for two different classes of Electrostar to couple in passenger service. They can only couple for ECS moves.

It is a bit ridiculous that the same family of trains has zero compatibility. You would think that Bombardier would have thought to make them compatible. Southeasteen now have 375s and 377s on the same routes. Southern now have 377s and 387s on the same routes. Great Northern now have 379s and 387s on the same routes. It would make it much easier if they could couple in passenger service.

Thanks!
And I agree, they should all ideally be made with interworking in mind. Alas, that is shelved for a more perfect world

 

[andybarsblade]

class 171, 375, 376, 377, 378, 379 & 387 all have the same Dellner type 12 mechanical coupler fitted so can all couple if needed.

 

[stadler]

Has anyone seen a 730/0 and 730/2 coupled to each other yet? I can find no record of it ever occurring but i would be surprised if it never happened yet?

 

[Amos390]

When ScotRail had 150s I have seen a 170/150 combo. The 170/158 combo is common.

EMR frequently does this on ECS moves, whether short depot hops (such as Notts -> Eastcroft) or longer moves (Like Eastcroft to Etches). Seen a couple of these in person, doesn't make them an odd sight though...

 

[Trainman40083]

EMR frequently does this on ECS moves, whether short depot hops (such as Notts -> Eastcroft) or longer moves (Like Eastcroft to Etches). Seen a couple of these in person, doesn't make them an odd sight though...

It was bad enough seeing a 153/170 combination coming from Nottingham into Derby. Mainly cos I knew the 153 was my train to Crewe

 

[RJ]

There was a 9 car Chiltern ECS from Wembley LMD to Marylebone on weekdays a few years back which was formed of a 165, 168 and two 172s. Pity the time of day it ran meant there wasn't anywhere decent to get a video or a picture.

 

[stadler]

Two more rare formations have happened in the past two weeks and both were caught on youtube videos.

Another 24 coach 700+700 formation:

Another 16 coach 745+755 formation:

Both of these have happened on a couple of occassions before but they are very rare to see.

It looks so strange to see such an extra long length (double the length permitted in passenger service) formation of units coupled.

 

[andy33gmail]

It looks so strange to see such an extra long length (double the length permitted in passenger service) formation of units coupled.

Out of interest, what’s the constraint? Just platform length on the routes they serve, or more fundamental?

 

[saismee]

Out of interest, what’s the constraint? Just platform length on the routes they serve, or more fundamental?

Probably problems with the TMS (I don't think MUs of this length even have electrical connectors), and safety with dispatching. Also, the lack of any need! 2tph of 12 coaches is better than 1tph of 24 coaches in almost every case.

 

[45Fox]

About 10-12 years ago, I remember Greater Anglia would run a Class 317/321 combo on the Great Eastern Mainline which was an unusual sight to behold.

During the period when the 321s were being introduced into service at Bletchley depot, in the process replacing the 317s that had recently transferred to the WCML from the Midland, there were a number of peak hour services booked for 2 units (8 cars); they tended to be either 2 x 317 or 2 x 321 but, depending on unit availability, a 317 + 321 certainly wasn't unknown; I worked such a combination a few times in 1989.

 

[Trainman40083]

Out of interest, what’s the constraint? Just platform length on the routes they serve, or more fundamental?

At one point, there was something about number of cabs in the consist, if I recall correctly. That would only have affected smaller DMUs mind, or locos

 

[33117]

Back in the early 2000s I had a very odd couple pairing with northern.

A 142/158 combo with the pacer leading!!!

 

[stadler]

Back in the early 2000s I had a very odd couple pairing with northern.

A 142/158 combo with the pacer leading!!!

Those were very common right up until about five years ago when the Pacers were withdrawn. Northern would couple Pacers to anything. I saw 142+158 formations happen many times. You could see 142+150 or 142+153 or 142+155 or 152+156 or 142+158 with Northern in passenger service. The formations of 142+158 also happened with ATW and FGW but it was a bit rarer there.