Class 168 Refurbishment Discussion and Updates

[HeelBurton]

Saw 219 out already in service today

Yep. I drove it fresh off the depot at Aylesbury to Wembley via the branch. I love the new carpet smell on it. Handles like a dream as well.

 

[CR165022]

What's happening with the 168s? Out of the 3 car ones, only 3 out of 9 are in service today, 110, 111 & 218.
109 did one service this morning and hasn't been out since, and 219 is was doing ECS runs all morning. The rest are being filled in with 165s.

 

[HeelBurton]

Why's happening with the 168s? Out of the 3 car ones, only 3 out of 9 are in service today, 110, 111 & 218.
109 did one service this morning and hasn't been out since, and 219 is was doing ECS runs all morning. The rest are being filled in with 165s.

Nothing particular is happening with them but we have 1 out on training runs and I guess we are suffering with some maintenance issues we are working with. We also have 2 away being refurbed. So a shortage yes but probably not unexpected and can be covered with Mark 5’s further down the line later in the year if it persists

 

[david1212]

Quotes from this thread

I personally found the 1st class seats very uncomfortable, I got on at Marylebone prepared to pay the upgrade. I sat for a few minutes, then got up and went to standard. The headrest in particular did not suit me. Sad to say I bailed out at Leamington as I found the ride quality and train to be pretty poor.

Digging into the shoulder blades and general construction of the upper back / neck and shoulders area?

Pretty much the same as the refurbed Cl.168 units - both require a slight slouch in posture to accomdate ones frame within tbe seat cushions.

Are the 168 seats being replaced as part of the refurbishment or just repaired, maybe new padding and recovered ?
Out of many of the trains introduced in the last 25 or so years I prefer the 168 seats to most others I have travelled on - DfT / Hitachi are your ears burning? - but also 220/221, 379 and 700.

 

[Mikey C]

I was a refurbished 168 (168001) yesterday, and the seats were the same (very nice) type as the original.

But there were different seats near the toilet?

 

[800002]

Something in my brain tells me that the seats may be slightly different between the individual classes...?

The refurbed 4-car class /0s have bulkier seats than the 2-car [can't recall class] I was on last night.

I wonder if this may have an impact on perception.
It's the /0 4car units which I have more issues with as they (presumably) were designed for someone much shorter and thinner than I.

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But there were different seats near the toilet?

Which one? The UAT or the non-UAT?
Wonder if you're referring to the tip up seats?

 

[CR165022]

I was a refurbished 168 (168001) yesterday, and the seats were the same (very nice) type as the original.

But there were different seats near the toilet?

The as built 168s have always had a different type of seat at the ends of each carriage, I don't think they changed the type of the during refurbishment.

 

[Sparks807Evo]

Something in my brain tells me that the seats may be slightly different between the individual classes...?

The refurbed 4-car class /0s have bulkier seats than the 2-car [can't recall class] I was on last night.

I wonder if this may have an impact on perception.
It's the /0 4car units which I have more issues with as they (presumably) were designed for someone much shorter and thinner than I.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Mar 2026 ==


Which one? The UAT or the non-UAT?
Wonder if you're referring to the tip up seats?

If it was a 2 car Class 168 then you were on a Class 168/3, which are part of batch of former First TransPennine Express units. They have a different seat design which is abit thinner and personally find the contour of them more comfortable if you prefer to be sat more upright (or if you are taller!)

I am yet to get on a MK5 with Chiltern but sounds like they are bit of downgrade in all round comfort compared to the 168s which wouldn’t surprise me as was never overly sold on them during their brief stint at TPE.

 

[800002]

If it was a 2 car Class 168 then you were on a Class 168/3, which are part of batch of former First TransPennine Express units. They have a different seat design which is abit thinner and personally find the contour of them more comfortable if you prefer to be sat more upright (or if you are taller!)

I am yet to get on a MK5 with Chiltern but sounds like they are bit of downgrade in all round comfort compared to the 168s which wouldn’t surprise me as was never overly sold on them during their brief stint at TPE.

Yes. That's the one! Slightly better comfort on the 168/3.

The only way to fond out is to use them... afriad there is far too much personal opinion going on these days, when ultimately it comes down to personal preference.

True... the ride is harsher occasionally, but that aside it's just a case of trying the seats out and seeing how bumpy the ride is on that particular day.

 

[MerlinRail 804]

I think in his book a few years ago Adrian Shooter said the reason for the different types of seat was the fact that they tested a few types out and two came out equally on top so they decided to put both in for the first units.

 

[CyrusWuff]

I think in his book a few years ago Adrian Shooter said the reason for the different types of seat was the fact that they tested a few types out and two came out equally on top so they decided to put both in for the first units.

I stand for correction, but I believe that was the refurbishment of the Class 165s in the early 2000s, rather than the 168/0s. It could have been both though.

 

[CR165022]

Not sure about 168s but the 165s definitely did test out a few. 165013 had I think 4 different types of seat trialled in it, as well as a slightly different version of the then new Chiltern livery, which was then changed to the one that all the other units got.

 

[Mikey C]

Testing seats out before ordering thousands of them sounds very sensible. I found the two types of seat in this article. Personally I really like the ones in the centre of the carriage, other than the tiny tray table.

Photos from

First refurbished Class 168 DMU unveiled by Chiltern Railways

UK: Chiltern Railways has unveiled the first of its 28 Class 168 diesel multiple-units to be refurbished under a £12m programme. However, the programme is facing delays because of the greater than anticipated differences in the first post-privatisation trainsets. Speaking to stakeholders at the...

www.railwaygazette.com

 

[RPM]

I stand for correction, but I believe that was the refurbishment of the Class 165s in the early 2000s, rather than the 168/0s. It could have been both though.

It happened in both cases.

 

[CR165022]

I am hoping it will be soon as it is one of 6 168s that I still need. On the subject of that can anyone shed some light on 168112 please as I can never find that on RTT?

168112 re-entered service this morning.

 

[170399]

168112 re-entered service this morning.

Happy days, thanks for the heads up.

 

[giblets]

Quotes from this thread





Are the 168 seats being replaced as part of the refurbishment or just repaired, maybe new padding and recovered ?
Out of many of the trains introduced in the last 25 or so years I prefer the 168 seats to most others I have travelled on - DfT / Hitachi are your ears burning? - but also 220/221, 379 and 700.

The refurbed sets have new padding, the older sets the padding has mostly collapsed, and is pretty hard, the based is noticeably higher on the returned sets

 

[CR165022]

Progress on 168329 seems to have stalled again. It's now sat in the far end of the branch siding in Aylesbury.

 

[HeelBurton]

Progress on 168329 seems to have stalled again. It's now sat in the far end of the branch siding in Aylesbury.

Heading to Banbury at some point.

 

[CR165022]

Heading to Banbury at some point.

Right now, I believe. 5U29 currently running and is a 2 car 168.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Mar 2026 ==

Edit: Confirmed 168329, running by itself too, which is a good sign!

 

[fodphil]

Right now, I believe. 5U29 currently running and is a 2 car 168.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Mar 2026 ==

Edit: Confirmed 168329, running by itself too, which is a good sign!

Its running Ecs test runs between Banbury and Moor St today.

Realtime Trains | 5R26 1324 Banbury to Birmingham Moor Street | 25/03/2026

Real-time train running information for 5R26 1324 departure from Banbury to Birmingham Moor Street on 25/03/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[A60stock]

Is there a reason that the 168 livery has changed a few times now but the 165 livery still remains the same, since the Chiltern livery (on top of that, no refurbishment since the original one in the early 2000s)?

 

[cj_1985]

Is there a reason that the 168 livery has changed a few times now but the 165 livery still remains the same, since the Chiltern livery (on top of that, no refurbishment since the original one in the early 2000s)?

If I was to guess... I'd hazard a guess that it (livery) could be because the 168s are used on the mainline services, alongside the LHCS, while the 165s are lower speed and used on what I would probably class as regional rather than InterCity (London-Aylesbury vs London-Birmingham).

 

[A60stock]

Agreed.

But Chiltern seem to leave their 165s very unloved, compared to the rest of the fleet, despite the 165s being the oldest and most in need of a refurb

 

[cj_1985]

Between Arrive and the DfT having been holding the purse strings... is it any wonder... I mean the 165s are probably viewed as commuter trains. They aren't 'high profile', so won't probably won't be viewed as being worth the money for the life they have left... plus how long have we been told about replacement fleet plans supposedly going to market 'soon'

Simple truth is, they aren't a high priority for a refurb (for Chiltern or DfT), or replacement, despite being the only diesel commuter trains into London terminals (Not saying that's how I view it...)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Simple truth is, they aren't a high priority for a refurb (for Chiltern or DfT), or replacement, despite being the only diesel commuter trains into London terminals (Not saying that's how I view it...)

They're not quite. Southern (GTR) operate Uckfield DMUs into London Bridge at some times of day.

I agree they're in poor condition, though, including stuff like bent grab poles above the doors (clearly from where kids have been swinging on them) and dropped third seats. The 168s have their own problems, though, e.g. damaged seat back tables - has anything been done with these?

 

[CR165022]

The 165s have had a slight livery change in the past few years but yes remains mostly the same. Surely the 165s will be due another repaint soon? They started going through their C6 overhaul in 2016 ish.

 

[A60stock]

I would expect that perhaps a refresh could be done. Light and cheap though

 

[MerlinRail 804]

Is it just me or has there not been any 168s to or from Crewe for a little while now?

 

[170399]

Is it just me or has there not been any 168s to or from Crewe for a little while now?

I have noticed this too, going off the last list we got so I could be behind but I believe 168005 is still at Crewe?