SWR outgoing Metro fleet withdrawals (complete)

[Ian Hardy]

Was a short lease on 458s.

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[Bikeman78]

Ref latest 458 refurb, have always suspected Politics were involved, levelling up South vs North employment etc...but who knows?

Think back to 8 SUB's arriving Waterloo (if you're as old as me that is?)...

Too young but I remember EPBs and VEPs. Same principle applies. It took about three minutes for the queue to get through the ticket gates this morning. I darted out of the way and stood by the buffer stops listening to the suspension adjusting as the load rapidly decreased.

 

[DelW]

These wretched old rust buckets just refuse to die

5712 and 5732 were looking smart and tidy both inside and out this morning. (No idea how rusty they are underneath of course).

Just out of interest are any other units apart from these last few that are still lingering pending withdrawal in SWT colours (8.5 years after SWT lost franchise)

At least some of the 158s are still in SWT livery, not sure if all the 159s have been done or not.

 

[Invincible]

The Modern Railways article requires you to be a digital subscriber to be able to access it.

try a google search on "swr 458 lease 2027" when I do it I can access it
The main point was the short lease, the current 458 runs will be replaced by 701s and SWR don't have plans for using 458s on the Portsmouth fast line, why they were refurbished

 

[Ian Hardy]

try a google search on "swr 458 lease 2027" when I do it I can access it
The main point was the short lease, the current 458 runs will be replaced by 701s and SWR don't have plans for using 458s on the Portsmouth fast line, why they were refurbished

That is odd.

 

[E B]

At least some of the 158s are still in SWT livery, not sure if all the 159s have been done or not.

159107 was still in SWT in late December 2025, however that was 3 months ago now.

 

[Ian Hardy]

159107 was still in SWT in late December 2025, however that was 3 months ago now.

The image of 159107 on RTT as it is on the 1L76 1925 Exeter St Davids to London Waterloo today suggests that it still is in SWT livery:
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P61294/2026-03-03/detailed

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The image of 159107 on RTT as it is on the 1L76 1925 Exeter St Davids to London Waterloo today suggests that it still is in SWT livery:
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P61294/2026-03-03/detailed

To be fair though, while RTT is invaluable for many reasons, it's not reliable where the liveries on the train drawings are concerned, because they don't often get time to update them. There were 450s showing as blue and 150s in Arriva turquoise several months after they'd gone grey / white and red respectively.

 

[DelW]

The main point was the short lease, the current 458 runs will be replaced by 701s and SWR don't have plans for using 458s on the Portsmouth fast line, why they were refurbished

SWR changed their plans after the refurbishment contract had been let. This may have been a consequence of the post Covid downturn in traffic (I forget the exact timeline) .

At the time it was said that penalty clauses for termination of the refurb contract were more onerous than carrying the work out, even though the intention by then was to not put the /4s into service at all. It was only the long delay in getting 701s running that meant that the /4s had to be used to cover suburban services. (The /4 conversion had originally been intended for main line use on the Direct).

 

[43096]

To be fair though, while RTT is invaluable for many reasons, it's not reliable where the liveries on the train drawings are concerned, because they don't often get time to update them. There were 450s showing as blue and 150s in Arriva turquoise several months after they'd gone grey / white and red respectively.

There are still 360s showing in blue, for example.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

But to return to the question, the 159/1s are all still in South West Trains "Sunrise" livery. (159103 is in a slightly altered version known as "Sawtooth")

 

[CallmeDave]

There is a post on FB, 455 Twilight years that says 455 extension of lease for one week. (I.e this week). Obviously I can't tell if it is just this week, or if another week may follow. Time will doubtless tell its tale as we roll with it (or gen may come beforehand to enlighten us further)

 

[CR165022]

At least some of the 158s are still in SWT livery, not sure if all the 159s have been done or not.

All 159/1s & 158881-886 are in SWT White still. 159103 (& 102) has the slightly different version.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

All 159/1s & 158881-886 are in SWT White still. 159103 (& 102) has the slightly different version.

102 is no more, of course

 

[SWT_USER]

SWR changed their plans after the refurbishment contract had been let. This may have been a consequence of the post Covid downturn in traffic (I forget the exact timeline) .

At the time it was said that penalty clauses for termination of the refurb contract were more onerous than carrying the work out, even though the intention by then was to not put the /4s into service at all. It was only the long delay in getting 701s running that meant that the /4s had to be used to cover suburban services. (The /4 conversion had originally been intended for main line use on the Direct).

That and the fact none of the geniuses in charge thought to check whether a 12 coach 458/4 formation would actually be practical to use on Portsmouth services before spending millions on the refurb.

Are SWR going to fix the broken units or are short forms just going to get worse until all the 701's are in service? Journey check showing lots of short forms on the Windsor side this morning peak

 

[Snow1964]

That and the fact none of the geniuses in charge thought to check whether a 12 coach 458/4 formation would actually be practical to use on Portsmouth services before spending millions on the refurb.

Yes, someone somewhere assumed they are 20m vehicles (the end vehicles are 21m), so a 12car formation is 246m. For comparison a 12car class 450 is 244m, and the former CIG/BIG/VEP were 243m

Adding 2m might not sound a lot extra length, but it is enough to mean the starting signals at the terminus on a number of platforms at Portsmouth and Waterloo couldn't be seen.

Big problem if too long to operate as 12car formations, although if they moved signals at Waterloo (not easy as points are close to platform ends) could in theory run something like a peak hour circular (via Basingstoke, Eastleigh, Fareham, Petersfield etc). But in meantime can't really be used except on 8car shoulder peak mainline workings (or as temporary cover on Windsor/Reading services pending more 701s entering service)

 

[norbitonflyer]

Just out of interest are any other units apart from these last few that are still lingering pending withdrawal in SWT colours (8.5 years after SWT lost franchise)

The remaining 458/5s (at least two of which are working today).

 

[Cravens]

Things must be bad vis a vis 458/4 availability this morning as 455727 has gone out into service on its own this morning to work a Waterloo - Weybridge and return service.

 

[Goldfish62]

Things must be bad vis a vis 458/4 availability this morning as 455727 has gone out into service on its own this morning to work a Waterloo - Weybridge and return service.

Yes, looks to be as bad as yesterday when eight units were unavailable.

 

[Stephen42]

Are SWR going to fix the broken units or are short forms just going to get worse until all the 701's are in service? Journey check showing lots of short forms on the Windsor side this morning peak

The 458s are expected to be returned in working condition. Ones with issues will require SWR to compensate the fleet owner.

Out of the 28 units, 401 has been out long term. 3 (410, 411, 412) last ran early/mid Feb. That's when started dropping below availability target of 24. Another 4 (402, 405, 409, 425) haven't run this week yet but did last week. Some clearly failed while others entered Wimbledon Park as per diagram then haven't been out since.

The only "cheat" an operator can do is return a unit just before it's due a maintenance exam. This doesn't look to be the case here with a path in for a 458/4 to have a C6 at Bournemouth at the end of the week. It's possible the failures close together have increased mileage on the others requiring maintenance earlier than expected. Hopefully the unit going isn't one currently operational.

 

[Peter Sarf]

The 458s are expected to be returned in working condition. Ones with issues will require SWR to compensate the fleet owner.

Out of the 28 units, 401 has been out long term. 3 (410, 411, 412) last ran early/mid Feb. That's when started dropping below availability target of 24. Another 4 (402, 405, 409, 425) haven't run this week yet but did last week. Some clearly failed while others entered Wimbledon Park as per diagram then haven't been out since.

The only "cheat" an operator can do is return a unit just before it's due a maintenance exam. This doesn't look to be the case here with a path in for a 458/4 to have a C6 at Bournemouth at the end of the week. It's possible the failures close together have increased mileage on the others requiring maintenance earlier than expected. Hopefully the unit going isn't one currently operational.

One way of looking at it, perhaps, is if the effort to commission a particular 701 is less than that required on a failed 458. If that is the case, then the 701 will be got going first. I doubt SWR have maintenance staff hanging around with nothing to do.

 

[Siemens Staines]

Yes, looks to be as bad as yesterday when eight units were unavailable.

It looks like it has slightly improved this morning to seven units short, with the shortfall made up of

450066 vice 2*458/4 (2Y03)
455727 vice 2*458/4 (2S07 as posted above)
458533 vice 2*458/4 (2C09)
458424 vice 2*458/4 (2U09)

It is interesting to note that there had been a plan to reduce the number of 458/4 diagrams to 22 in the current LTP that commenced 09/02, but STP has increased that number to 24. There must have been a reason as to why the number of 458/4 diagrams had been intended to be reduced before 458/5. However for example, this weeks STP change was instead a reduction in the number of 458/5 diagrams. In practice the opposite has occurred.

 

[Tom]

To be fair though, while RTT is invaluable for many reasons, it's not reliable where the liveries on the train drawings are concerned, because they don't often get time to update them. There were 450s showing as blue and 150s in Arriva turquoise several months after they'd gone grey / white and red respectively.

Of all the fleets that are most likely to be right, it’s the SWR 158 and 159 as I travel on them weekly and can use Mk1 eyeball

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Of all the fleets that are most likely to be right, it’s the SWR 158 and 159 as I travel on them weekly and can use Mk1 eyeball

Oh fabulous, first hand sources right there

 

[Siemens Staines]

This doesn't look to be the case here with a path in for a 458/4 to have a C6 at Bournemouth at the end of the week. It's possible the failures close together have increased mileage on the others requiring maintenance earlier than expected. Hopefully the unit going isn't one currently operational.

Is anyone able to advise which unit was on 5X95 to Bournemouth this morning.

 

[Bikeman78]

It looks like it has slightly improved this morning to seven units short, with the shortfall made up of

450066 vice 2*458/4 (2Y03)
455727 vice 2*458/4 (2S07 as posted above)
458533 vice 2*458/4 (2C09)
458424 vice 2*458/4 (2U09)

It is interesting to note that there had been a plan to reduce the number of 458/4 diagrams to 22 in the current LTP that commenced 09/02, but STP has increased that number to 24. There must have been a reason as to why the number of 458/4 diagrams had been intended to be reduced before 458/5. However for example, this weeks STP change was instead a reduction in the number of 458/5 diagrams. In practice the opposite has occurred.

There were at least two four cars out yesterday afternoon. A single 450 and a single 458. Seems odd to run short forms with four 455s standing idle.

 

[nctd2306]

There were at least two four cars out yesterday afternoon. A single 450 and a single 458. Seems odd to run short forms with four 455s standing idle.

It's been said before that crew knowledge is the limiting factor with 455s on the Windsor Side, Feltham and Staines no longer sign them, you'd end with with parts of the diagram cancelled, which is why most recent 455 trips have been on "one round trip diagrams" in the morning or evening peak.

 

[Ridgeblog]

The remaining 458/5s (at least two of which are working today).

I still dream of seeing an ex 460 in swr colours.

 

[w11_supremecy]

Is anyone able to advise which unit was on 5X95 to Bournemouth this morning.

I was at Weybridge today - I was so taken aback seeing a 458/4 steaming down the Down Fast I completely missed the unit number, however what I can tell you for certain is that 5X95 was formed of an eight-coach 458/4, so thus two units made their way down to the south coast earlier today…

 

[Siemens Staines]

I was at Weybridge today - I was so taken aback seeing a 458/4 steaming down the Down Fast I completely missed the unit number, however what I can tell you for certain is that 5X95 was formed of an eight-coach 458/4, so thus two units made their way down to the south coast earlier today…

Thank you. Normally you can work out what has done an ECS to Bournemouth by which unit(s) disappear from service, but at the moment there are too many candidates, but knowing that it was two does help.