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GBRf Class 99 - 30 locomotives now ordered

Wyrleybart

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I was wondering if there were better workings that spend a larger proportion of their time under the wires than the aforementioned infrastructure maintenance trains.

Mainly intermodals as some of these only need the diesel for the last little bits of their journey. For example Felixstowe via London to places up the WCML (or thereabouts). Granted some of those routes I am thinking of (the ones easier than Felixstowe probably) could be just as well covered by a 93, but wrong company !.
I am quite sure that once GBRf have got the rest of / remaining drivers trained on 99s then we will see regular diagrams switch over to 99s. They are going to have to earn their investment !!

Is there a Hams Hall - Mossend flow where they could pan up in Walsall ?
 
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trainmania100

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I am quite sure that once GBRf have got the rest of / remaining drivers trained on 99s then we will see regular diagrams switch over to 99s. They are going to have to earn their investment !!
Where have I has that before? Oh yes ! The 69s LOL.
Plenty of drivers trained up, brief spin on some workings, now sidelined.

Although in fareness the 99s - they're (hopefully) better than 66s.
 

Rail Quest

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Where have I has that before? Oh yes ! The 69s LOL.
Plenty of drivers trained up, brief spin on some workings, now sidelined.

Although in fareness the 99s - they're (hopefully) better than 66s.
I don't think there were any metrics in which a 69 beat a class 66, indeed, either on paper or in practice (happy to be corrected). They were simply intended to plug the gap in available 66s. The 99s, however, far exceed the performance of 66s in certain metrics (on paper at least) and seem to have been ordered with significant ambitions. Provided the testing continues to be successful in meeting GBRf's expectations, its doubtless the 99's future will be much brighter than that of the 69s.
 

The Bear

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Is there a Hams Hall - Mossend flow where they could pan up in Walsall ?
Yes there is......
4S57 10:58 Hams Hall to Mossend Euroterminal

Which I regularly watch with a 66 on climbing Grayrigg at probably 20odd mph, with more often than not a Pendo trundling along behind a few minutes later.
 

99009

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Here's a complete list of current GBRF operated intermodal services. Subject to change and only typical Monday-Friday workings are shown. Southampton isn't listed as I don't believe GBRF have any plans to use the 99's on those services and they will remain 66 hauled.

Felixstowe (TOTAL: 15)

4M05/4L05 to and from Ditton
4M07/4L07 to and from Birch Coppice
4E11/4L11 to and from Rotherham
4M13/4L13 to and from Hams Hall
4E14/4L14 to and from Doncaster Iport
4E20/4L20 to and from Doncaster Iport
4E21/4L21 to and from Tinsley
4M22/4L22 to and from Trafford Park
4M23/4L23 to and from Hams Hall
4E28/4L28 to and from Doncaster Iport
4M29/4L29 to and from Birch Coppice
4E43/4L43 to and from Doncaster Iport
4M61/4L62 to and from Ditton
4M66/4L66 to and from Daventry
4M78/4L53 to and from Hams Hall

Note: Currently one Doncaster Iport circuit and the Daventry circuit are diagrammed together, so the loco does 4L43, 4M66, 4L66, 4E43 etc.

London Gateway (TOTAL: 7)

4E00/4L00 to and from Tinsley
4E08/4L08 to and from Doncaster Iport
4M17/4L17 to and from Hams Hall
4M24/4L24 to and from East Midlands Gateway
4M47/4L47 to and from Hams Hall
4M68/4L68 to and from Birch Coppice
4E97/4L98 to and from Doncaster Iport

Others (TOTAL: 2)

4E39/4L39 Tilbury - Wakefield Europort - Tilbury
4S57/4M57 Hams Hall - Mossend - Hams Hall
 

Peter Sarf

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Here's a complete list of current GBRF operated intermodal services. Subject to change and only typical Monday-Friday workings are shown. Southampton isn't listed as I don't believe GBRF have any plans to use the 99's on those services and they will remain 66 hauled.

Felixstowe (TOTAL: 15)

4M05/4L05 to and from Ditton
4M07/4L07 to and from Birch Coppice
4E11/4L11 to and from Rotherham
4M13/4L13 to and from Hams Hall
4E14/4L14 to and from Doncaster Iport
4E20/4L20 to and from Doncaster Iport
4E21/4L21 to and from Tinsley
4M22/4L22 to and from Trafford Park
4M23/4L23 to and from Hams Hall
4E28/4L28 to and from Doncaster Iport
4M29/4L29 to and from Birch Coppice
4E43/4L43 to and from Doncaster Iport
4M61/4L62 to and from Ditton
4M66/4L66 to and from Daventry
4M78/4L53 to and from Hams Hall

Note: Currently one Doncaster Iport circuit and the Daventry circuit are diagrammed together, so the loco does 4L43, 4M66, 4L66, 4E43 etc.

London Gateway (TOTAL: 7)

4E00/4L00 to and from Tinsley
4E08/4L08 to and from Doncaster Iport
4M17/4L17 to and from Hams Hall
4M24/4L24 to and from East Midlands Gateway
4M47/4L47 to and from Hams Hall
4M68/4L68 to and from Birch Coppice
4E97/4L98 to and from Doncaster Iport

Others (TOTAL: 2)

4E39/4L39 Tilbury - Wakefield Europort - Tilbury
4S57/4M57 Hams Hall - Mossend - Hams Hall
Thanks for this.

Total 23 (15 -1 +7 +2) - so the 30 strong fleet of class 99s could easily cover them all !.

What proportion of the Felixstowe workings go cross country vs via London ?.

If the 99s start off by covering just Infrastructure trains Doncaster/Peterborough that makes sense as a way to get all those drivers trained up.
And then spread further South later ?.
I am thinking Wembley drivers will not get trained until more of the 99s are here and then perhaps eventually there will be a switch of emphasis to longer distance intermodals.
 
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99009

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Thanks for this. What proportion of the Felixstowe workings go cross country vs via London ?.
Typically, routes for the Felixstowe services are via the following as far as I know. Again, subject to change, but also subject to engineering work during overnight possessions.

4M05/4L05 to and from Ditton = Stowmarket, March, Oakham, Leicester, WCML.
4M07/4L07 to and from Birch Coppice = Stowmarket, March, Oakham, Leicester.
4E11/4L11 to and from Rotherham = Stowmarket, March, Lincoln Central, Spalding.
4M13/4L13 to and from Hams Hall = Stowmarket, March, Oakham, Leicester.
4E14/4L14 to and from Doncaster Iport = Stowmarket, March, Lincoln Central, Spalding.
4E20/4L20 to and from Doncaster Iport = Stowmarket, March, Lincoln Central, Spalding.
4E21/4L21 to and from Tinsley = Stowmarket, March, Lincoln Central, Spalding.
4M22/4L22 to and from Trafford Park = GEML + WCML.
4M23/4L23 to and from Hams Hall = Stowmarket, March, Oakham, Leicester.
4E28/4L28 to and from Doncaster Iport = Stowmarket, March, Lincoln Central, Spalding.
4M29/4L29 to and from Birch Coppice = Stowmarket, March, Oakham, Leicester.
4E43/4L43 to and from Doncaster Iport = Stowmarket, March, Lincoln Central, Spalding.
4M61/4L62 to and from Ditton = GEML + WCML.
4M66/4L66 to and from Daventry = GEML + WCML.
4M78/4L53 to and from Hams Hall = Stowmarket, March, Oakham, Leicester.
 

Peter Sarf

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Typically, routes for the Felixstowe services are via the following as far as I know. Again, subject to change, but also subject to engineering work during overnight possessions.

4M05/4L05 to and from Ditton = Stowmarket, March, Oakham, Leicester, WCML.
4M07/4L07 to and from Birch Coppice = Stowmarket, March, Oakham, Leicester.
4E11/4L11 to and from Rotherham = Stowmarket, March, Lincoln Central, Spalding.
4M13/4L13 to and from Hams Hall = Stowmarket, March, Oakham, Leicester.
4E14/4L14 to and from Doncaster Iport = Stowmarket, March, Lincoln Central, Spalding.
4E20/4L20 to and from Doncaster Iport = Stowmarket, March, Lincoln Central, Spalding.
4E21/4L21 to and from Tinsley = Stowmarket, March, Lincoln Central, Spalding.
4M22/4L22 to and from Trafford Park = GEML + WCML.
4M23/4L23 to and from Hams Hall = Stowmarket, March, Oakham, Leicester.
4E28/4L28 to and from Doncaster Iport = Stowmarket, March, Lincoln Central, Spalding.
4M29/4L29 to and from Birch Coppice = Stowmarket, March, Oakham, Leicester.
4E43/4L43 to and from Doncaster Iport = Stowmarket, March, Lincoln Central, Spalding.
4M61/4L62 to and from Ditton = GEML + WCML.
4M66/4L66 to and from Daventry = GEML + WCML.
4M78/4L53 to and from Hams Hall = Stowmarket, March, Oakham, Leicester.
Thanks

Only three via London !.
The rest needing diesel across country.
 

99009

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According to RTT, 99002 has worked 0Q37/6Q37 Peterborough Yard - March Yard - Peterborough Yard tonight. If anyone sees anything that can confirm that like a photo, video or TOPS please let me know.

EDIT: And also if anyone knows which 99 led 0Q98 Leicester - Peterborough yesterday with 99001+99002 also let me know.
 

Wyrleybart

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Here's a complete list of current GBRF operated intermodal services. Subject to change and only typical Monday-Friday workings are shown. Southampton isn't listed as I don't believe GBRF have any plans to use the 99's on those services and they will remain 66 hauled.

Felixstowe (TOTAL: 15)

4M05/4L05 to and from Ditton
4M07/4L07 to and from Birch Coppice
4E11/4L11 to and from Rotherham
4M13/4L13 to and from Hams Hall
4E14/4L14 to and from Doncaster Iport
4E20/4L20 to and from Doncaster Iport
4E21/4L21 to and from Tinsley
4M22/4L22 to and from Trafford Park
4M23/4L23 to and from Hams Hall
4E28/4L28 to and from Doncaster Iport
4M29/4L29 to and from Birch Coppice
4E43/4L43 to and from Doncaster Iport
4M61/4L62 to and from Ditton
4M66/4L66 to and from Daventry
4M78/4L53 to and from Hams Hall

Note: Currently one Doncaster Iport circuit and the Daventry circuit are diagrammed together, so the loco does 4L43, 4M66, 4L66, 4E43 etc.

London Gateway (TOTAL: 7)

4E00/4L00 to and from Tinsley
4E08/4L08 to and from Doncaster Iport
4M17/4L17 to and from Hams Hall
4M24/4L24 to and from East Midlands Gateway
4M47/4L47 to and from Hams Hall
4M68/4L68 to and from Birch Coppice
4E97/4L98 to and from Doncaster Iport

Others (TOTAL: 2)

4E39/4L39 Tilbury - Wakefield Europort - Tilbury
4S57/4M57 Hams Hall - Mossend - Hams Hall
Really interesting. Thank you.
So assuming all the Gateway trains are "via London" then 4M17/4L17 4M47/4L47, 4M68/4L68 and 4S57/4M57 would definately be early changes to class 99.

Which way do The Doncaster I port and Wakefield Europort go ? If up the ECML probably also a good idea, but are there 75mph paths bwtween Peterborough and Doncaster ?
 
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Here's a complete list of current GBRF operated intermodal services. Subject to change and only typical Monday-Friday workings are shown. Southampton isn't listed as I don't believe GBRF have any plans to use the 99's on those services and they will remain 66 hauled.
Well thats annoying! Especially now the Southampton trains have lost the 70s! Was hoping to see a 99 down here!
 

99009

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Really interesting. Thank you.
So assuming all the Gateway trains are "via London" then 4M17/4L17 4M47/4L47, 4M68/4L68 and 4S57/4M57 would definately be early changes to class 99.

Which way do The Doncaster I port and Wakefield Europort go ? If up the ECML probably also a good idea, but are there 75mph paths bwtween Peterborough and Doncaster ?

For London Gateway, typical routing subject to all the same as above is:

Via WCML:
4M17/4L17 to and from Hams Hall
4M24/4L24 to and from East Midlands Gateway
4M47/4L47 to and from Hams Hall
4M68/4L68 to and from Birch Coppice

Via Finsbury Park, Hertford North, Peterborough, Lincoln Central:
4E00/4L00 to and from Tinsley
4E08/4L08 to and from Doncaster Iport
4E97/4L98 to and from Doncaster Iport

There's also a 4E19/4L19 London Gateway - Rotherham - London Gateway that goes via this route, but I didn't add that to the list because even though it's running this week and ran 2 weeks ago, it didn't run last week.

4E39/4L39 Tilbury - Wakefield Europort - Tilbury also goes via the same route as 4E00/4L00 etc.

Generally, all the container traffic between Peterborough and Doncaster goes via Spalding and Lincoln Central and not the ECML, unless it's late at night when there's space.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Well thats annoying! Especially now the Southampton trains have lost the 70s! Was hoping to see a 99 down here!
I agree and I'd love to be wrong, but when GBRF have talked about the 99's on the container services they've never mentioned Southampton, only Felixstowe and London Gateway.

GBRF currently operate trains to/from Southampton to/from Rotherham (4 a week), Doncaster Iport (3 a week), Hams Hall and Trafford Park. Of these, the only service that would use overhead wires for a longer distance is the Trafford Park service.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Thanks

Only three via London !.
The rest needing diesel across country.
Don't forget the Dagenham Ford cars/vans traffic, which is also very likely to be 99 hauled. 6X41 Dagenham - Garston and 6L48 Garston - Dagenham would use another 99. 6X77 Dagenham - Mossend and 6L38 Mossend - Dagenham (runs 2/3 times a week) would be another 99. Then the seasonal/depending on demand 6X43 Dagenham - Garston and 6L47 Garston - Dagenham would be another 99.
 
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47286Dan

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99002 currently working this

99002 MBEL PBONYGBRF 456Q401Q03 4 * DONCDNDCY B
Consist
7006590167, 7006590266, 7006590258, 7006590191, 7006590381, 7006590076, 7006590316, 7006590043, 7006590274, 7006590407

Dan
 

Rail Quest

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Don't forget the Dagenham Ford cars/vans traffic, which is also very likely to be 99 hauled. 6X41 Dagenham - Garston and 6L48 Garston - Dagenham would use another 99. 6X77 Dagenham - Mossend and 6L38 Mossend - Dagenham (runs 2/3 times a week) would be another 99. Then the seasonal/depending on demand 6X43 Dagenham - Garston and 6L47 Garston - Dagenham would be another 99.
Have GBRf mentioned the car moves? Given their loads are pretty light and are only authorized up to 50mph (I think it's 50, something to do with the wagons used right?), I'd assume the pathing advantages of using 99s on them is negligible compared to other prospective movements.
 

Class15

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Have GBRf mentioned the car moves? Given their loads are pretty light and are only authorized up to 50mph (I think it's 50, something to do with the wagons used right?), I'd assume the pathing advantages of using 99s on them is negligible compared to other prospective movements.
I’d be shocked if 6L38/6X77 weren’t 99s considering they go up Shap and Beattock and are fully under the wires.
 

99009

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Have GBRf mentioned the car moves? Given their loads are pretty light and are only authorized up to 50mph (I think it's 50, something to do with the wagons used right?), I'd assume the pathing advantages of using 99s on them is negligible compared to other prospective movements.
I thought it had been mentioned somewhere by someone from GBRF (can't remember where unfortunately) as part of a discussion about other types of traffic a 99 would and could work. Time will tell but because of the route, I personally believe and confidently predict a 99 will work these.
 

Rail Quest

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I thought it had been mentioned somewhere by someone from GBRF (can't remember where unfortunately) as part of a discussion about other types of traffic a 99 would and could work. Time will tell but because of the route, I personally believe and confidently predict a 99 will work these.
Fair enough, makes a lot of sense. I just imagine there's a lot of moves that can and will be moved to 99 haulage before.

I'm wondering how many moves GBRf will be able to move over to 99s with only 30 locos in the initial order. Anyone know how many locos GBRf would need to cover all Felixstowe/London Gateway intermodal flows?
 

AC47461

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Thanks

Only three via London !.
The rest needing diesel across country.
The number going via the GEML and London is way down on what it was a few years ago (although there are still plenty of paths). You used to be able to go somewhere like Ingatestone (near me) and get something pretty much every hour in each direction between the peaks (that's across all FOCs, not just GBRf) . Now there's only about half a dozen (today, 7 between 9am and just after 6pm, 3 of which were GBRf).

I wonder if the 99s take over, more may come back that way?

Just as an aside I understand the loop at Beaulieu Park isn't long enough to hold standard a freightliner, so that doesn't help.
 
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Have GBRf mentioned the car moves? Given their loads are pretty light and are only authorized up to 50mph (I think it's 50, something to do with the wagons used right?), I'd assume the pathing advantages of using 99s on them is negligible compared to other prospective movements.
From a post by a driver on here, car carriers are 50 when empty and 75 when laden. Some workings run laden in both directions swapping models between plants, I think Toyota used to do this.
 

Trainman40083

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From a post by a driver on here, car carriers are 50 when empty and 75 when laden. Some workings run laden in both directions swapping models between plants, I think Toyota used to do this.
Used to be cars from Burnaston (loaded at Toton) to Europe and imports back
 

Peter Sarf

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The number going via the GEML and London is way down on what it was a few years ago (although there are still plenty of paths). You used to be able to go somewhere like Ingatestone (near me) and get something pretty much every hour in each direction between the peaks (that's across all FOCs, not just GBRf) . Now there's only about half a dozen (today, 7 between 9am and just after 6pm, 3 of which were GBRf).

I wonder if the 99s take over, more may come back that way?

Just as an aside I understand the loop at Beaulieu Park isn't long enough to hold standard a freightliner, so that doesn't help.
Fingers crossed the use of the knitting via London is attractive for more Felixstowe services.
 

Rail Quest

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From a post by a driver on here, car carriers are 50 when empty and 75 when laden. Some workings run laden in both directions swapping models between plants, I think Toyota used to do this.
60 when loaded.
Ahh yes that makes sense, thanks for the clarifications. I remember speaking to a GBRf driver who complained about how boring it was working the unloaded Garston cars in a 92 :lol:
 

92002

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Yes. It does strike me as maybe driver training Doncaster/Peterborough. Then Whitemoor then a growing sphere of infrastructure work. However that is not really making extensive use of their 25KV AC capability ?.
There's a daytime Infrastructure train from Doncaster to Millerhill 4S31 with traffic from Whitemoor and other places.Sometimes runs as 6X31 depends on wagon types. The Southbound 4E31 runs from Mosdend to Doncaster via Millerhill. These use the Edinburgh non electrified Sub line.

Another does a Millerhill to Carlisle return trip via WCML. Which picks up Southbound traffic and Northbound traffic. Which both. seem to be a probable 99 trip

As well as the Car trains on the WCML that probably is also a candidate for a 99 as crews get trained. Hams Hall intermodal trains too. With traffic from other places like London Gateway and East Anglia.
 

rick pike

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There's a daytime Infrastructure train from Doncaster to Millerhill 4S31 with traffic from Whitemoor and other places.Sometimes runs as 6X31 depends on wagon types. The Southbound 4E31 runs from Mosdend to Doncaster via Millerhill. These use the Edinburgh non electrified Sub line.

Another does a Millerhill to Carlisle return trip via WCML. Which picks up Southbound traffic and Northbound traffic. Which both. seem to be a probable 99 trip

As well as the Car trains on the WCML that probably is also a candidate for a 99 as crews get trained. Hams Hall intermodal trains too. With traffic from other places like London Gateway and East Anglia.
The Doncaster - Millerhill 6S31 and 6E36 return is a Colas working not GBRF.
 
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BorderCollie

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4E31 and 4S31 are new intermodal paths and have never run - Freightliner.

0S31/6S31/6X31 are the daily Doncaster - Millerhill and return is 0E36/6E36/6X36 - Colas

6M50 Carlisle - Millerhill and 6M51 return - DB
 

Tony2

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4E31 and 4S31 are new intermodal paths and have never run - Freightliner.

0S31/6S31/6X31 are the daily Doncaster - Millerhill and return is 0E36/6E36/6X36 - Colas

6M50 Carlisle - Millerhill and 6M51 return - DB
Correct!

In 2018, DRS had the contract for 6S31 and 6E36, so it was often hauled by a class 88. Now it is Colas hauled with 56s (until recently), 66s and 70s.

Only way this would be a regular class 99, is if GBRf won this contract from Colas.
 
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furnessvale

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60 when loaded.
Is the difference due to braking, ride quality or some other factor.

This leads me to the question, would a single empty wagon, as is often the case, make the whole train unloaded, thus reducing the speed?
 

GB

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Is the difference due to braking, ride quality or some other factor.

This leads me to the question, would a single empty wagon, as is often the case, make the whole train unloaded, thus reducing the speed?
I believe it is something to do with the suspension on a certain type of wagon (twin single deck, single axle), but it has been a long time since I have dealt with those trains.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

This leads me to the question, would a single empty wagon, as is often the case, make the whole train unloaded, thus reducing the speed?
From what I remember, Fords only put out wagons that were in use.
 

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