Given that would mean potentially hundreds of thousands of people who currently travel by rail anyway now becoming eligible, it's hard to see how that would be revenue -neutralEasily resolved by allowing ANYONE to be able to choose a railcard instead of a driving licence.
What's not to like
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Expansion of Disabled Persons Railcard eligibility
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I'm very clear that NI is part of the UK. It is however, also correct that GB and NI have separate rail systems, and separate arrangements to support disabled people in reducing the costs of rail travel.
Seems we have a little more meat to the bones
Eligibility Expansion - Disabled Persons Railcard
www.disabledpersons-railcard.co.uk
brad465
Veteran Member
This particular paragraph is interesting to me as I'm hoping this makes me eligible:
As someone with autism, but does not claim PIP (I haven't sought it), I'd like to be able to apply at this point, especially as my 26-30 railcard renewal is due in November so this lines up well. However I don't know how I'd be able to prove "substantial impact on ability to travel by train"; I have childhood diagnosis forms as proof of condition, but worry they might be out of date for something like this.
As someone with autism, but does not claim PIP (I haven't sought it), I'd like to be able to apply at this point, especially as my 26-30 railcard renewal is due in November so this lines up well. However I don't know how I'd be able to prove "substantial impact on ability to travel by train"; I have childhood diagnosis forms as proof of condition, but worry they might be out of date for something like this.
Haywain
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brad465
Veteran Member
So do you or anyone else think diagnosis forms from 27 years ago would be valid, or might I have to get some new assessment?
Does it have significant impact on your ability to travel by train?
I'd argue that large numbers of railway enthusiasts are neurodivergent (I certainly am diagnosed as such) but I'd say it has no impact on my ability to travel by train bar some anxiety at unexplained delay (and I am and have been for years a train guard despite this) therefore I'd not expect to be eligible for this railcard.
The criteria is a bit odd really as I'm not sure a discount in itself for the railcard holder would help much in terms of neurodivergency making travel difficult - however if the cardholder finds their symptoms aided by bringing a companion then obviously the discount for a companion might be of use.
Haywain
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No, I don't.
brad465
Veteran Member
If there's trouble being caused in my carriage, and/or an argument or dispute, especially with a guard/inspector, I often experience sensory overload/an anxiety attack, so have to either move away or drown it out, so it does have an impact. Anxiety related to delays can also occur, especially where connections are involved, though not sure this is particularly unique to me. These wouldn't have been discovered in an assessment aged 3.5 though.
As an ex-teacher, I would say definitely use your diagnosis statement. That’s what it is there for. Doesn’t matter whether it was last year or 27 years ago. You don’t have a diagnosis of dementia from 15 years ago and then say that it’s out of date because they haven’t had any follow up.
All the points you’ve mentioned here are relevant. The stress of having to work out new routes if a line becomes blocked, sensory overload, anxiety over successive travel plans in the case of delays, e.g. onward bus travel, if you stim - finding somewhere safe/where someone is aware that you are stimming rather than something untoward, over reliance on planning journeys to a minute, how you are at the end of the day - are you drained/exhausted/find concentration difficult because your attention has been on travel - it all builds a picture. Just use whichever are relevant to you.
My own consultant (for physical disability, not autism) always said - on your worst day, if there was no alternative, what would you find challenging in addition to a lay-person without your diagnosis?
Agree
Aren't they arguments for access to passenger assistance services when travelling rather than for railcard eligibility?
It seems most likely that people with a neurodivergent diagnosis will need to evidence the impact it has on them in the same way one does when claiming PIP. That's because neurodiversity is a spectrum and doesn't affect everyone equally.
So, a recent doctor's or consultant's letter is likely to be required for this and it is unlikely one will be able to self-assess for the railcard. However, as the details haven't been confirmed, that's pure speculation.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Why? Most of the current criteria revolve around people who find train travel more difficult than non-disabled people.
If anything, I would lean towards simplifying the eligibility criteria to:
a) receipt of PIP and equivalents in devolved nations,
b) eligibility for disabled persons ENCTS and equivalents
c) those ineligible for a driver's licence due to a medical condition.
That would cover the vast majority of those who need to bear the additional cost of travelling by rail due to their disability limiting other options, which is surely the main purpose of the railcard.
a) receipt of PIP and equivalents in devolved nations,
b) eligibility for disabled persons ENCTS and equivalents
c) those ineligible for a driver's licence due to a medical condition.
That would cover the vast majority of those who need to bear the additional cost of travelling by rail due to their disability limiting other options, which is surely the main purpose of the railcard.
And there was me a few months ago saying I don't see the point going for an ADHD assessment because I know what the outcome will be and a diagnosis will make no difference. Seems I might be able to blag a Railcard out of it now /s
The main purpose of the railcard is to make rail travel a more viable option for people who may struggle with being independent. So, it seems to make sense that the criteria are being expanded to reflect the fact that a number of people who would be excluded under yiur criteria are now included. The test that the condition must affect one's ability to use the train independently seems entirely reasonable to me.
I have had a Disabled Person's Railcard for a number of years as I am extremely hard of hearing For me the msin benefit is not the discount but the fact that a fully hearing companion gets the same discount. Thus the railway gets 66% from two people rather than nothing or 100% of one.
All that now needs to be done is get around to being able to add a Railcard to contactless, although I cannot see how that would work for a companion who might sometimes travel without the card holder.
All that now needs to be done is get around to being able to add a Railcard to contactless, although I cannot see how that would work for a companion who might sometimes travel without the card holder.
pokemonsuper9
Established Member
Although the processing for contactless cards (rather than oyster) is all calculated after the fact, so you could theoretically do it that as long as they tap in/out within 5 minutes of each other it could discount it.
Not saying that's what they'll do, but that's the first thing that comes to mind.
Fine if the companion was always the same person but would not work with different ones.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
I think the difficulty that the railway faces is that it can't just go off PIP anymore, because of the way that the eligibility criteria for PIP have been changed. The PIP descriptors for mental ill-health, neurodivergence, and intellectual disabilities are very tight, restricting the benefit to people who cannot follow a common route. By design, the descriptors exclude a lot of people who would need help for unfamiliar or long-distance journeys. Even the PIP descriptors for physical disabilities are tightened- if you can use prosthetic legs, you probably won't be eligible for PIP.
It's worth noting that (c) in your list is a qualifying criterion for an ENCTS pass.
It's also worth noting that mental ill-health and neurodivergence do not qualify someone for an ENCTS pass either, unless their issues mean they would be denied a driving licence. The requirement is to have a learning disability which must have started in childhood. This also means that having a long-term brain injury or a degenerative brain condition wouldn't qualify you either (although, in practical terms, someone with a long-term brain injury or condition would likely be eligible because they'd be unfit to drive).
It is, but eligibility for ENCTS/Freedom Pass/etc is a qualifying criterion for the Disabled Person's Railcard from March 2026 and the local authorities are making the assessments anyway. There doesn't seem to be much point in RDG re-inventing the wheel.
It'll be interesting to see the wording of the eligibility for phase two in September 2026. I strongly suspect that it won't end up being as generous as it looks at first glance and that quite a restrictive view of "a substantial impact on a person's ability to travel by train" will be taken. But I am just speculating.
It is hard to see why neuro-divergence, given that it isn't an eligibility criteria in itself for ENCTS passses, should be for rail, especially when:
a) it is such a broad, open to interpretation, category
b) given that a significant proportion of rail journeys for many people will be on local services, it is hard to see why they should be treated differently to bus journeys and ENCTS eligibility.
a) it is such a broad, open to interpretation, category
b) given that a significant proportion of rail journeys for many people will be on local services, it is hard to see why they should be treated differently to bus journeys and ENCTS eligibility.
Alternatively, it can be viewed as bringing consistency to, and reducing the number and costs of, eligibility assessment processes.
Alternatively, perhaps bus operators should be more open to such conditions.
I am probably in a minority though of having diagnoses for various mental health problems and not believing I should be entitled to certain discounts.
As has already been pointed out to you, it is not proposed that it will be eligibiiity criteria in and of itself. Only if the condition hampers someone's ability to travel by rail. Which is likely a minority of neurodivergent people.
It still comes back to the same point, which is that it is hard to see why it should be included as a criteria even for such a subset when they are not reflected in ENCTS criteria.
Still not sure why ENCTS is some sort of gold standard. Why should the railways mirror them (they never have, btw) given that they aren't offering the same benefits of free travel and the scheme is not being paid for by taxpayers?
The relevant PIP mobility points are, vis-a-vis neurodiversity:
8 points or more are need to get a PIP mobility award, which would thereby entitle you to a railcard.
The obvious avenues to get a railcard following new criteria would then be:
1) PIP claim rejected based on PIP assessor's assessment, but applicant can use the same evidence with what's likely to be a less strict system to get the railcard. Private psychologists performing assessments also might in future specifically address this point as part of their overall assessment of a neurodiverse person.
2) Gets 4 points on PIP assessment
- Can plan and follow the route of a journey unaided. 0 points.
- Needs prompting to be able to undertake any journey to avoid overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. 4 points.
- Cannot plan the route of a journey. 8 points.
- Cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person, assistance dog or orientation aid. 10 points.
- Cannot undertake any journey because it would cause overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant. 10 points.
- Cannot follow the route of a familiar journey without another person, an assistance dog or an orientation aid. 12 points.
8 points or more are need to get a PIP mobility award, which would thereby entitle you to a railcard.
The obvious avenues to get a railcard following new criteria would then be:
1) PIP claim rejected based on PIP assessor's assessment, but applicant can use the same evidence with what's likely to be a less strict system to get the railcard. Private psychologists performing assessments also might in future specifically address this point as part of their overall assessment of a neurodiverse person.
2) Gets 4 points on PIP assessment
No. Absolutely not. Many people will have a far more challenging experience travelling by rail even if with staff assistance provided (more accurately described as being forced to rely on staff for assistance). A discount recognising that is reasonable and fair.
Only just over 50% have some degree of step free access at all (may be via steep ramps, in one direction only, with small lift, cobbled access). 20% are fully accessible only with staff assistance, which frequently goes wrong resulting in stress, delays, and even traumatic and dangerous experiences. Less than 2% of stations have level boarding.
Incentivising people to use the train despite facing additional barriers (which will always exist regardless of assistance) requires a lower price, and that’s what the railcard does.
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