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Expansion of Disabled Persons Railcard eligibility

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TUC

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Who cares? Nobody is subsidising Disabled Railcard holders. Regardless, the expansion of the criteria don't mention that wanting "support or reassurance" will qualify a person for a discount. The criteria will remain exactly as you suggest. From the expanding eligibility page:
The problem is ‘substantial impact’ is a subjective term.

With regard to ‘nobody is subsidising Disabled Railcard holders’ , is it established that the income from disabled railcards exceeds the loss from the discount given (allowing for any additional generation of travel)? If not, other passengers are subsidising them.
 
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AlterEgo

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The problem is ‘substantial impact’ is a subjective term.

With regard to ‘nobody is subsidising Disabled Railcard holders’ , is it established that the income from disabled railcards exceeds the loss from the discount given (allowing for any additional generation of travel)? If not, other passengers are subsidising them.
If you think this move is somehow about being nice and pouring money on disabled people, and not actually just a mechanism to get more revenue for our cash strapped railways then I've a bridge to sell you. Have a look at this government and tell me which you think is more likely.
 

TUC

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If you think this move is somehow about being nice and pouring money on disabled people, and not actually just a mechanism to get more revenue for our cash strapped railways then I've a bridge to sell you. Have a look at this government and tell me which you think is more likely.
Think about it. A DP railcard is £20 a year. My wife has one. We've just come back from a trip to London where the fares for us in total were c£84 instead of £126. I'm very grateful we had the discount from the railcard, but the saving has more than exceeded the cost of the railcard in one trip. Replicated around the country, it is hard to see how the railcard is revenue-positive.
 

spyinthesky

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Think about it. A DP railcard is £20 a year. My wife has one. We've just come back from a trip to London where the fares for us in total were c£84 instead of £126. I'm very grateful we had the discount from the railcard, but the saving has more than exceeded the cost of the railcard in one trip. Replicated around the country, it is hard to see how the railcard is revenue-positive.
There are lots of people who would consider that £126 is far too much cost over driving.
Personally I would make far fewer trips by rail if I didn’t possess the discount. I don’t rely on the railway apart from leisure outings
 

AlterEgo

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Think about it. A DP railcard is £20 a year. My wife has one. We've just come back from a trip to London where the fares for us in total were c£84 instead of £126. I'm very grateful we had the discount from the railcard, but the saving has more than exceeded the cost of the railcard in one trip. Replicated around the country, it is hard to see how the railcard is revenue-positive.
Of course railcards are revenue positive. Why do you think the 26-30 and Two Together railcards were recently brought in, for example?

Railcards incentivise travel by making expensive fares more tolerable. A lot of people won't pay £100 to go to London but £67 sounds a lot more reasonable. Of course some people who have the railcard mostly make trips they'd do anyway, but for most holders they end up spending more money than they would before and travel more regularly.

Railcards are a marketing device, not a handout.
 

TUC

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There are lots of people who would consider that £126 is far too much cost over driving.
Personally I would make far fewer trips by rail if I didn’t possess the discount. I don’t rely on the railway apart from leisure outings
I'm not arguing against the DP railcard. We find it of great benefit. I was responding to @AlterEgo 's claim that it is revenue-generating.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Of course railcards are revenue positive. Why do you think the 26-30 and Two Together railcards were recently brought in, for example?

Railcards incentivise travel by making expensive fares more tolerable. A lot of people won't pay £100 to go to London but £67 sounds a lot more reasonable. Of course some people who have the railcard mostly make trips they'd do anyway, but for most holders they end up spending more money than they would before and travel more regularly.

Railcards are a marketing device, not a handout.
They may be, but has an economic analysis of them been published?
 
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spyinthesky

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I'm not arguing against the DP railcard. We find it of great benefit. I was responding to @AlterEgo 's claim that it is revenue-generating.
I believe in that claim is that £84 of revenue is more than £0 due to people like myself who wouldn’t have made the journey at £126.
I didn’t think for one minute think you were arguing against it, sorry if I made you think that.
 

AlterEgo

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I'm not arguing against the DP railcard. We find it of great benefit. I was responding to @AlterEgo 's claim that it is revenue-generating.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==


They may be, but has an economic analysis of them been published?
I doubt it has been published anyone the public can read it, but unless you think our impoverished railways are in the business of giving handouts then it naturally follows that they must be. There are more railcards than there have ever been and there is almost certainly a financial reason for that.
 

TUC

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I doubt it has been published anyone the public can read it, but unless you think our impoverished railways are in the business of giving handouts then it naturally follows that they must be. There are more railcards than there have ever been and there is almost certainly a financial reason for that.
You seem to ignore the impact that politics, especially from a government desperate for improved public approval, has on decision-making.
 

JamesT

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I doubt it has been published anyone the public can read it, but unless you think our impoverished railways are in the business of giving handouts then it naturally follows that they must be. There are more railcards than there have ever been and there is almost certainly a financial reason for that.
Have the new railcards been instigated by the railway industry or by government? The latter is well known for giving handouts if it will benefit them politically.
 

Sonic1234

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They may be, but has an economic analysis of them been published?
The fact they are marketed so heavily suggests they are revenue positive. Some railcards have to be offered by law, but I assume there is nothing stopping this being a hard-to-find page on National Rail Enquiries with a postal application and a 6-8 week turnaround time so only the most dedicated get the card.

The fact that half the posters at stations are about railcards, TOCs push them, you get marketing emails about them, they have deals with Tesco Clubcard, cashback sites etc., third parties sell them, there is an app, partnerships with banks offer them to students, online ads, new railcards have been offered etc. suggests the railway want people to have railcards.
 

AlterEgo

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Have the new railcards been instigated by the railway industry or by government? The latter is well known for giving handouts if it will benefit them politically.
The industry has instigated previous railcards from its own market research. Granted, the expansion of the criteria is now much more closely a government decision as they hold all the purse strings now, but they are not a handout or a subsidy and this is a fairly open secret in the industry. As @Sonic1234 mentions, they're aggressively marketed by everyone. They're a product to earn revenue, not a handout.
 

dgl

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I know my sister has been on the train a lot more since she got hers. She's medically stopped from driving as they don't like people who have seizures, let alone one at the wheel, driving! (annoying as she was the only person who bothered!) so also gets a free bus pass that works the same as the ENCTS pass.

Of course the disabled persons railcard is the most valuable of them all as it has no time restrictions and allows any one other person that travels with the holder the same discount (though naturally this is meant for a carer).

At the end of the day anything that helps disabled people get out and about is a good thing, plus if more people are using the railway then upgrades and improvements get easier to justify.
 

lachlan

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It's good to see the eligibility being updated so anyone medically unfit to drive can get a railcard. I always thought it was strange that the two were not aligned.
 

Class800

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I don't find it generous. As a person with disabilities but who through hard work and determination had forged a successful senior career at work and has no requirement to call on the state for funds. But sometimes has travel challenges
 

brad465

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I don't find it generous. As a person with disabilities but who through hard work and determination had forged a successful senior career at work and has no requirement to call on the state for funds. But sometimes has travel challenges
This is me I feel. I have autism and benefit hugely from rail travel, but also don't claim PIP so wouldn't be eligible at the moment. While I have a driver's licence, I don't own a car as the demands of it risk causing mental burnout (I obtained the licence simply to enhance career prospects), while I only have 2 more years on a 26-30 left before I'm nearly 32. I'd rather not have to apply for PIP solely for the sake of being eligible (although my parents did claim DLA while I was a child, given my early diagnosis).
 

TUC

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This is me I feel. I have autism and benefit hugely from rail travel, but also don't claim PIP so wouldn't be eligible at the moment. While I have a driver's licence, I don't own a car as the demands of it risk causing mental burnout (I obtained the licence simply to enhance career prospects), while I only have 2 more years on a 26-30 left before I'm nearly 32. I'd rather not have to apply for PIP solely for the sake of being eligible (although my parents did claim DLA while I was a child, given my early diagnosis).
The difficulty is how is that any different in practical effects to many people who are too nervous to be able to learn to drive, but in no way would they be thought appropriate for a DP Railcard?
 
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Djminisite06

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I don't find it generous. As a person with disabilities but who through hard work and determination had forged a successful senior career at work and has no requirement to call on the state for funds. But sometimes has travel challenges
This entirely - I work full time so have no real reason to claim benefits, but, I also have Crohn’s disease and mental health issues and would benefit from a disabled railcard - if my Crohn’s is bad a flexible ticket is much more preferable to an advance ticket - but is much more expensive so I’m penalised for wanting flexibility to manage a medical condition
 

AlterEgo

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The difficulty is how is that any different in practical effects to many people who are too nervous to be able to learn to drive, but in no way would they be thought appropriate for a DP Railcard?
That would depend on whether their nervousness was due to a disability or not.

Disabled Railcard confirmed here (by a poster who is known to be authoritative on fares and ticketing) as revenue postitive: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ose-money-from-railcards.140030/#post-2838130
 

soil

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Of course railcards are revenue positive. Why do you think the 26-30 and Two Together railcards were recently brought in, for example?

Railcards incentivise travel by making expensive fares more tolerable. A lot of people won't pay £100 to go to London but £67 sounds a lot more reasonable. Of course some people who have the railcard mostly make trips they'd do anyway, but for most holders they end up spending more money than they would before and travel more regularly.

Railcards are a marketing device, not a handout.

These are very bold statements.

Firstly, the disabled railcard can be used for commuting, whereas the 26-30/Two Together are off-peak only, so the disabled railcard is obviously a hand-out in that they don't provide the same incentives to other groups.

Secondly, I'm aware that people change their behaviour, for example going home later from work to use a railcard discount, so it's not a given that they are revenue-positive.

Thirdly they weren't particularly recently brought in, but 2018 and 2014 respectively. While I might avoid making certain journeys due to my lack of railcard, that doesn't follow that it would make sense to add further railcards to cover the 31-59 age group, because there has been plenty of time to do so, and we haven't seen one, so logically it might be that they think it better to charge this group full price, perhaps becuase they are more able/willing to pay it.
 

MikeFromLFE

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While the benefits of a Disabled Railcard are worthwhile for UK travel, as far as I'm concerned in recent years has been the free companion Interrail pass for a second person. This effectively halves the cost of an Interrail pass if two people are travelling.
It's a little known side-benefit that seems to be poorly publicised but it's in the National Rail FAQs https://www.myinterrail.co.uk/help/faqs/
 

TheTallOne

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While the benefits of a Disabled Railcard are worthwhile for UK travel, as far as I'm concerned in recent years has been the free companion Interrail pass for a second person. This effectively halves the cost of an Interrail pass if two people are travelling.
It's a little known side-benefit that seems to be poorly publicised but it's in the National Rail FAQs https://www.myinterrail.co.uk/help/faqs/
Interesting, but I guess not every disabled person will need a companion, so for some it's more expensive than others.


Someone above said it's a revenue generator, I agree with their points re encouraging people to use the train.

I wouldn't pay £120+ to get to London, I'd probably drive to the outskirts, park and use a local train service or underground.

So definitely in my case they're missing out on my custom.

I'm lucky that I could afford to pay £120, just choose not to. That said it PIP was easier to achieve I'd consider reducing my hours at work as it can be quite a challenge working full time especially in a bright noisy massive office. :'(
 

Hadders

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Firstly, the disabled railcard can be used for commuting, whereas the 26-30/Two Together are off-peak only, so the disabled railcard is obviously a hand-out in that they don't provide the same incentives to other groups.
The 26-30 Railcard can be used for commuting, subject to a £12 minimum discounted fare before 10:00 on weekdays.
 

AlterEgo

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These are very bold statements.

Firstly, the disabled railcard can be used for commuting, whereas the 26-30/Two Together are off-peak only, so the disabled railcard is obviously a hand-out in that they don't provide the same incentives to other groups.

Secondly, I'm aware that people change their behaviour, for example going home later from work to use a railcard discount, so it's not a given that they are revenue-positive.

Thirdly they weren't particularly recently brought in, but 2018 and 2014 respectively. While I might avoid making certain journeys due to my lack of railcard, that doesn't follow that it would make sense to add further railcards to cover the 31-59 age group, because there has been plenty of time to do so, and we haven't seen one, so logically it might be that they think it better to charge this group full price, perhaps becuase they are more able/willing to pay it.
I've already referenced my claim that it is revenue generative with an unimpeachable source, so unless you have a better one, I'm not entering into debate. (no doxxing allowed here, so can't tell you who that is as they have not outed themselves. However it is reasonably well known along the fares experts here who that poster is and yes, it is their job to know the answer)
 

Tester

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The difficulty is how is that any different in practical effects to many people who are too nervous to be able to learn to drive, but in no way would they be thought appropriate for a DP Railcard?
Easily resolved by allowing ANYONE to be able to choose a railcard instead of a driving licence.

What's not to like :D
 

Railguy1

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Fantastic news.

I was unable to get the disabled Railcard for several years, despite holding a freedom pass for being unfit to drive. I was then able to be registered partially sighted to get it, but the faff involved was a headache - and later they did not accept the registration card, only the certificate…
 
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Starmill

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I think that it would be wise to be quite cautious before saying something which implies that Northern Ireland is in some way less a part of the UK than Wales and Scotland are. I'm sure that's not really what anyone meant here but...

You can rely on the objective facts about the ways in which it's different of course, in the same way that the Isle of Wight is going to have some things which are objectively very different to the rest of England.
 
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