Guards not doing their job properly (and other poor experiences with staff on the railway)

[LowLevel]

It's interesting you say that, as while Northern (West) has its share of problems, most notably relating to Sunday working, I've always found them proactive with revenue, right back to the 90s. Some would take real pride in doing revenue and doors on a heaving 2-car in the peak, barely stopping moving the entire journey (though admittedly trains are now longer most of them do still try). The endemic laziness down South is quite a contrast to that.

Merseyrail is a contrast to that, but Merseyrail guards have rarely been tasked with revenue over the years (there was a brief period in the late 90s/early 2000s when the barrier checks were removed and they were but it soon dropped away) so the culture has always just been to be operational.

It gave you something to try and aim for to push yourself and to a degree the scanning payments are a modern equivalent which is why despite being a "technology payment" sceptic I am heavily in favour of a small scanning payment. Humans work far more effectively if they can see some quantifiable fruit to their labour.

I used to love taking a rush hour train and trying to smash all the sales in. Doing that and working the train actually required a fair amount of presence of mind and skill, particularly in terms of route knowledge and how best to work your revenue equipment.

 

[ainsworth74]

It's interesting you say that, as while Northern (West) has its share of problems, most notably relating to Sunday working, I've always found them proactive with revenue, right back to the 90s. Some would take real pride in doing revenue and doors on a heaving 2-car in the peak, barely stopping moving the entire journey (though admittedly trains are now longer most of them do still try).

Maybe I've over egged the pudding slightly, it wasn't that they were consistently not doing revenue or anything but it has lead to a noticeable uptick. I think particularly on those trains where it's a bit easier to not bother (towards the end of the day). It's very rare now not to see a conductor do revenue at any time of day. Whereas before it was perhaps more just unlikely rather than actually unusual.

The endemic laziness down South is quite a contrast to that.

Indeed!

It gave you something to try and aim for to push yourself and to a degree the scanning payments are a modern equivalent which is why despite being a "technology payment" sceptic I am heavily in favour of a small scanning payment. Humans work far more effectively if they can see some quantifiable fruit to their labour.

It's been transformative on Northern on the East side. Like I say it wasn't that staff were habitually not doing revenue checks before but I do think it's caused a bump in how proactive they're being. Plus it's sped up a lot of revenue checks. I've been on trains that before e-tickets and scanning were ubiquitous the conductor might manage to get through one carriage between say Redcar and Middlesbrough (around ten minutes or so), now they're consistently checking the entire train in that time. A lot of them are even doing revenue on short hops like Redcar East and Redcar Central (couple of minutes) because they know they'll actually get a decent way through a carriage.

As a passenger, I'm massive fan of guards and other revenue staff getting a 1p or 2p per scan it seems like an absolute no brainer of a way to get incentives aligned for everyone. To a degree it's probably "gamified" the process of revenue protection for staff and that is a well known tactic of getting humans to care about things.

 

[BanburyBlue]

Thank you for clarification on this. I never noticed any differences in beeps!

Interesting though. I use a Chiltern Smartcard for my regular commute which is rarely checked when a ticket inspection is taking place. They happily scan e-tickets - I think it may be a different app to scan a Smartcard?

 

[ainsworth74]

Interesting though. I use a Chiltern Smartcard for my regular commute which is rarely checked when a ticket inspection is taking place. They happily scan e-tickets - I think it may be a different app to scan a Smartcard?

I've noticed on Northern that the little PDAs they do seem to need to switch between functions to check a smartcard rather than scan a ticket. Seems to be a couple of buttons to go from one to the other (I assume something like "exit e-ticket scanner" and then "start smartcard reader"). But it's very rare I see them not bother doing it. There was a point at which they didn't have the means to scan smartcards but that was a number of years ago now. Now that they can actually check smartcards it's unusual to see a guard just wave away someone proffering a smartcard rather than scanning it properly.

The thing I notice is though that it is noticeable slower to do the check when a smartcard is presented. An e-ticket takes less than a second to scan and flash up green/yellow/red on their PDA. A smartcard takes several seconds to achieve the same outcome. I assume that's just due to the nature of ITSO.

 

[Kite159]

The thing I notice is though that it is noticeable slower to do the check when a smartcard is presented. An e-ticket takes less than a second to scan and flash up green/yellow/red on their PDA. A smartcard takes several seconds to achieve the same outcome. I assume that's just due to the nature of ITSO.

And that assumes the card can be read the first time round and not take a couple of attempts to get the details to load, and to locate the relevant entry.

 

[ainsworth74]

And that assumes the card can be read the first time round and not take a couple of attempts to get the details to load, and to locate the relevant entry.

Yes there does seem to be a knack to it from what I've observed!

 

[yorkie]

It's been transformative on Northern on the East side. Like I say it wasn't that staff were habitually not doing revenue checks before but I do think it's caused a bump in how proactive they're being. Plus it's sped up a lot of revenue checks. I've been on trains that before e-tickets and scanning were ubiquitous the conductor might manage to get through one carriage between say Redcar and Middlesbrough (around ten minutes or so), now they're consistently checking the entire train in that time. A lot of them are even doing revenue on short hops like Redcar East and Redcar Central (couple of minutes) because they know they'll actually get a decent way through a carriage.

Agreed.

Between York and Church Fenton, they would rarely get through to the front, and would certainly not achieve this on busy services; sometimes they would still be selling tickets and I suspect some regulars knew there was a good chance of a free ride at the very front.

However, these days, they nearly always do get the entire train done before Church Fenton, even on busy services.

In my experience, checks on routes around Yorkshire are very common on morning, afternoon and early evening trains, but they do drop off a lot as the day goes on, and evening trains are rarely checked (but there are some guards who will always check). Checks on TPE became very rare a few years ago, but are much more common now that 2p a scan has been brought in to TPE. But Guards vary hugely, from having no interest in ever checking to always checking, even on quieter/late night services.

 

[amahy]

As a passenger, I'm massive fan of guards and other revenue staff getting a 1p or 2p per scan it seems like an absolute no brainer of a way to get incentives aligned for everyone. To a degree it's probably "gamified" the process of revenue protection for staff and that is a well known tactic of getting humans to care about things.

I agree that it’s good that guards get extra pay for being more visible and out-and-about, as it’s good for passenger safety and reduces confusion, especially when there is disruption. Most guards are very helpful when it comes to customer service.

However, I’m not a fan of when the very same guards that rigorously check everyone’s tickets are slack with antisocial behaviour, as it appears somewhat hypocritical to me.

The attitude often seems to be, “as long as you have a valid ticket, I don’t care what you get up to and what annoyance it might cause other passengers”.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I agree that it’s good that guards get extra pay for being more visible and out-and-about, as it’s good for passenger safety and reduces confusion, especially when there is disruption. Most guards are very helpful when it comes to customer service. However, I’m not a fan of when the very same guards that rigorously check everyone’s tickets are slack with antisocial behaviour, as it appears somewhat hypocritical to me. The attitude often seems to be, “as long as you have a valid ticket, I don’t care what you get up to and what annoyance it might cause other passengers”.

I note that above. I do sort of understand hiding in the cab if they fear for their own safety, but the guard I noted above didn't fear asking the miscreant to turn the music off, she just seemed to be pretty convinced she had no remit to do it unless someone complained, whereas one would think that there would be a remit to prevent antisocial behaviour even where a complaint wasn't made (unless they felt unsafe doing so) because it almost certainly is annoying someone but they themselves may not feel safe to complain about it.

 

[BG2024]

Train guards taking ages to open the doors at stations, to the point of delaying the train. (This can either be due to them still checking tickets while sitting in the station, or coming out the back cab at the last minute.)

One Northern guard used to be particularly bad for that. Didn't help his cause that the volume on his phone was loud enough that anyone near the rear cab could clearly hear he was busy playing Candy Crush. Thankfully I haven't seen him around for a while.

 

[ainsworth74]

However, I’m not a fan of when the very same guards that rigorously check everyone’s tickets are slack with antisocial behaviour, as it appears somewhat hypocritical to me. The attitude often seems to be, “as long as you have a valid ticket, I don’t care what you get up to and what annoyance it might cause other passengers”.

It's obviously frustrating but it's very difficult for them to deal with really. They've got to be watch their own personal safety to begin with (I believe at @transportphoto mentioned the idea of dynamic risk assessments), then there's the question of what their intervention actually achieves, particularly if the person says "Sod off" when told to stop doing xyz behaviour. What do they do then? Escalate the situation? How? Should they hold the train at station until the person gets off? If they refuse? It's tricky for guards to do much more than ask nicely (and even that can obviously be risky!). Plus they're usually working alone (effectively, the driver is also on the train but has no idea what's going on behind them) which makes things somewhat more risky.

In reality this is the sort of thing that needs to be tackled by specially trained staff working in small groups. I believe Merseyrail and their classic of issuing Byelaw penalties for feet on seat use their Revenue Protection Inspectors to do it as they work in groups.

 

[35B]

It's obviously frustrating but it's very difficult for them to deal with really. They've got to be watch their own personal safety to begin with (I believe at @transportphoto mentioned the idea of dynamic risk assessments), then there's the question of what their intervention actually achieves, particularly if the person says "Sod off" when told to stop doing xyz behaviour. What do they do then? Escalate the situation? How? Should they hold the train at station until the person gets off? If they refuse? It's tricky for guards to do much more than ask nicely (and even that can obviously be risky!). Plus they're usually working alone (effectively, the driver is also on the train but has no idea what's going on behind them) which makes things somewhat more risky.

In reality this is the sort of thing that needs to be tackled by specially trained staff working in small groups. I believe Merseyrail and their classic of issuing Byelaw penalties for feet on seat use their Revenue Protection Inspectors to do it as they work in groups.

I get the logic, but disagree. While there will be exceptions, quiet calm enforcement by staff at all times helps create the expectation of the right behaviour. Leaving enforcement so it's by exception only just encourages the poor behaviour, while making the stakes higher when someone does enforce it.

 

[LowLevel]

Agreed.

Between York and Church Fenton, they would rarely get through to the front, and would certainly not achieve this on busy services; sometimes they would still be selling tickets and I suspect some regulars knew there was a good chance of a free ride at the very front.

However, these days, they nearly always do get the entire train done before Church Fenton, even on busy services.

In my experience, checks on routes around Yorkshire are very common on morning, afternoon and early evening trains, but they do drop off a lot as the day goes on, and evening trains are rarely checked (but there are some guards who will always check). Checks on TPE became very rare a few years ago, but are much more common now that 2p a scan has been brought in to TPE. But Guards vary hugely, from having no interest in ever checking to always checking, even on quieter/late night services.

I enjoy springing the odd surprise on regulars by walking to the front doing a passenger count immediately on departure and having snuck up to the front 1/3 of the front coach announcing "tickets please!" whilst situating my sizable bulk in the aisle to stop anyone scurrying back past me. Works a treat

The other trick is being in one position on the platform until about 15 seconds before you shut the doors and then moving.

 

[bramling]

Maybe I've over egged the pudding slightly, it wasn't that they were consistently not doing revenue or anything but it has lead to a noticeable uptick. I think particularly on those trains where it's a bit easier to not bother (towards the end of the day). It's very rare now not to see a conductor do revenue at any time of day. Whereas before it was perhaps more just unlikely rather than actually unusual.


Indeed!

It's been transformative on Northern on the East side. Like I say it wasn't that staff were habitually not doing revenue checks before but I do think it's caused a bump in how proactive they're being. Plus it's sped up a lot of revenue checks. I've been on trains that before e-tickets and scanning were ubiquitous the conductor might manage to get through one carriage between say Redcar and Middlesbrough (around ten minutes or so), now they're consistently checking the entire train in that time. A lot of them are even doing revenue on short hops like Redcar East and Redcar Central (couple of minutes) because they know they'll actually get a decent way through a carriage.

As a passenger, I'm massive fan of guards and other revenue staff getting a 1p or 2p per scan it seems like an absolute no brainer of a way to get incentives aligned for everyone. To a degree it's probably "gamified" the process of revenue protection for staff and that is a well known tactic of getting humans to care about things.

On the latter point, I see it the opposite way. Performance incentives can cause people to cherry-pick the elements of their role that allow them to gain extra, to the detriment of their role as a whole. A similar and common example is people being eager to work overtime shifts, but having poor attendance for their actual rostered ones. It also can result in base salaries being reduced, worth bearing in mind when considering things like pension contributions.

My own view is that people should be paid a fair salary, and in return be expected to carry out their role to a required standard, with performance management applied when people fall short. Offering these sorts of payments is, in my view, often a sticking plaster for some or all of poor recruitment, poor competence management, poor performance management, poor industrial relations, and/or a company that doesn’t treat its staff well.

Just my own view though!

 

[amahy]

It's obviously frustrating but it's very difficult for them to deal with really. They've got to be watch their own personal safety to begin with, then there's the question of what their intervention actually achieves, particularly if the person says "Sod off" when told to stop doing xyz behaviour. What do they do then? Escalate the situation? How? Should they hold the train at station until the person gets off? If they refuse? It's tricky for guards to do much more than ask nicely (and even that can obviously be risky!). Plus they're usually working alone (effectively, the driver is also on the train but has no idea what's going on behind them) which makes things somewhat more risky.

All these points could also be applied to ticket checks and fare dodgers. What if someone without a valid ticket told the guard to “sod off”?

In reality this is the sort of thing that needs to be tackled by specially trained staff working in small groups. I believe Merseyrail and their classic of issuing Byelaw penalties for feet on seat use their Revenue Protection Inspectors to do it as they work in groups.

Agreed. Ideally, we need more proactive travel safe officers working in groups on the railway.

 

[yorkie]

On the latter point, I see it the opposite way. Performance incentives can cause people to cherry-pick the elements of their role that allow them to gain extra, to the detriment of their role as a whole. A similar and common example is people being eager to work overtime shifts, but having poor attendance for their actual rostered ones. It also can result in base salaries being reduced, worth bearing in mind when considering things like pension contributions.

My own view is that people should be paid a fair salary, and in return be expected to carry out their role to a required standard, with performance management applied when people fall short. Offering these sorts of payments is, in my view, often a sticking plaster for some or all of poor recruitment, poor competence management, poor performance management, poor industrial relations, and/or a company that doesn’t treat its staff well.

Just my own view though!

In an ideal world, yes. But those who regularly travel in the area know what a huge difference the 2p/scan incentive does in reality.

That said, I would like to see commission go, as that could have negative consequences; arguably 2p/scan is effectively replacing traditional commission anyway.

I enjoy springing the odd surprise on regulars by walking to the front doing a passenger count immediately on departure and having snuck up to the front 1/3 of the front coach announcing "tickets please!" whilst situating my sizable bulk in the aisle to stop anyone scurrying back past me. Works a treat

It used to surprise me how few Guards would do this!

It's less of an issue these days, now that e-tickets have taken over in this area. Most people boarding at unstaffed stations these days seem to prefer to buy e-tickets online, rather than buy on board, so the Guard gets to those who do need to buy a ticket quicker than before. Before e-tickets came along, there must have been many more uncollected fares than there are today.

 

[ainsworth74]

I get the logic, but disagree. While there will be exceptions, quiet calm enforcement by staff at all times helps create the expectation of the right behaviour. Leaving enforcement so it's by exception only just encourages the poor behaviour, while making the stakes higher when someone does enforce it.

Yes that's a fair comment, I think there's probably some scope for some polite verbal reminders of rules and expectations. Even if they decide it's too risky to confront in person a pointed PA can go a long way. But there remains limits on what a solo guard can do!

On the latter point, I see it the opposite way. Performance incentives can cause people to cherry-pick the elements of their role that allow them to gain extra, to the detriment of their role as a whole. A similar and common example is people being eager to work overtime shifts, but having poor attendance for their actual rostered ones. It also can result in base salaries being reduced, worth bearing in mind when considering things like pension contributions.

My own view is that people should be paid a fair salary, and in return be expected to carry out their role to a required standard, with performance management applied when people fall short. Offering these sorts of payments is, in my view, a sticking plaster for some or all of poor recruitment, poor competence management, poor performance management, poor industrial relations, and/or a company that doesn’t treat its staff well.

Just my own view though!

But human beings are human at the end of the day! I don't necessarily disagree that ideally people would be completely diligent in doing all parts of their role and if not that management processes would ensure that diligence. But humans are usually more motivated by the right incentives and from what I can see as a passenger the 2p per scan is an incentive which is absolutely working and I'm not convinced removing that incentive and replacing it with more stringent performance management is going to yield the same results. I'm also not convinced that, again from what I can see, that it's led to issues of guards focusing on one part of their job to the detriment of others.

All these points could also be applied to ticket checks and fare dodgers. What if someone without a valid ticket told the guard to “sod off”?

Indeed they could and you do hear cases of guards or others getting assaulted by people without tickets who take exception to being asked for one. It's all about risk assessment. I can see why a guard would be willing to ask someone for a ticket but might take a look at someone else with their feet on the seats and decide discretion is the better part of valour!

That said, I would like to see commission go, as that could have negative consequences; arguably 2p/scan is effectively replacing traditional commission anyway.

That's why I always thought it was barmy that the RMT and others tried to argue that scanners should yield a technology payment by virtue of being a new bit of tech rather than making the much more understandable and persuasive argument that e-tickets, wider usage of TVMs, etc have decimated their members commission so 2p per scan is small way of making up for that loss. That's something which the man or woman on the Clapham Omnibus can comprehend. Getting money for a new bit of tech much less so...

 

[amahy]

I enjoy springing the odd surprise on regulars by walking to the front doing a passenger count immediately on departure and having snuck up to the front 1/3 of the front coach announcing "tickets please!" whilst situating my sizable bulk in the aisle to stop anyone scurrying back past me. Works a treat

The other trick is being in one position on the platform until about 15 seconds before you shut the doors and then moving.

I’ve seen revenue protection staff doing this on Scotrail suburban services around Glasgow. When a 6 car 318/320/334 is used, revenue protection usually stays in the rear unit, as there are no end gangways, to keep one member of staff in each unit (driver in the front, revenue protection in the rear). It is highly amusing seeing surprised fare dodgers in the front unit jump when revenue protection staff ask to see their ticket on departure from Helensburgh!

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's obviously frustrating but it's very difficult for them to deal with really. They've got to be watch their own personal safety to begin with (I believe at @transportphoto mentioned the idea of dynamic risk assessments), then there's the question of what their intervention actually achieves, particularly if the person says "Sod off" when told to stop doing xyz behaviour.

I did find it strange, though, that the guard I note above was quite happy to do it on being asked to, but just didn't seem to feel it was part of her job to do it without any complaint having been made. It is true that Byelaw 7 requires the music being played to be someone's annoyance, but unless that person is in a carriage on their own well away from the cab (about the only time it wouldn't really be a problem and wouldn't be worth doing anything about) it's pretty unlikely for it not to be.

That's not consistent with a feeling of being threatened, really, as in that case you'd think she wouldn't do it either way. Being asked to do it doesn't affect the threat that person might pose to the guard (though may increase the threat to the passenger who raised it, particularly if they got off at the same station later and were out of sight of staff - which is why I think it is important for staff to act proactively unless they feel too threatened to act at all, in which case they probably should be in the cab and considering calling for assistance).

In reality this is the sort of thing that needs to be tackled by specially trained staff working in small groups. I believe Merseyrail and their classic of issuing Byelaw penalties for feet on seat use their Revenue Protection Inspectors to do it as they work in groups.

I do think the Merseyrail thing, much as the slightly paramilitary look of them doesn't make the network feel friendlier (I get the need for stab vests, sadly, but I'm not sure the jackboots are necessary), works, yes. Other countries e.g. Germany have equivalents.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's why I always thought it was barmy that the RMT and others tried to argue that scanners should yield a technology payment by virtue of being a new bit of tech rather than making the much more understandable and persuasive argument that e-tickets, wider usage of TVMs, etc have decimated their members commission so 2p per scan is small way of making up for that loss. That's something which the man or woman on the Clapham Omnibus can comprehend. Getting money for a new bit of tech much less so...

Agreed. Unions often don't help themselves by coming across as greedy, but it is entirely reasonable that on board sales commission should be (and has been on some TOCs) replaced by some sort of ticket checking commission given that otherwise what you have is a (considerable, in some cases) pay cut. And performance related pay is quite good at ensuring performance!

 

[bramling]

In an ideal world, yes. But those who regularly travel in the area know what a huge difference the 2p/scan incentive does in reality.

What that points to is poor performance management before the incentive came in. Reminds me of London Underground scoring people for announcements when trains are delayed, I know a few people who just punch the announcement out every time the train stops anywhere, without actually passing on any useful information, just so they tick the box. I don’t think LU does a bonus for information any more.

That said, I would like to see commission go, as that could have negative consequences; arguably 2p/scan is effectively replacing traditional commission anyway.

Either a ticket needs to be sold or it doesn’t, so I’ve never really understood the objective of commission. Again, it shouldn’t need to rely on £ to get guards essentially doing their job, especially in the setting where operators are now eager to take door duties away if they can get away with it. Poor supervision.

 

[The exile]

Either a ticket needs to be sold or it doesn’t, so I’ve never really understood the objective of commission. Again, it shouldn’t need to rely on £ to get guards essentially doing their job, especially in the setting where operators are now eager to take door duties away if they can get away with it. Poor supervision.

Except , as the title implies, the guard’s prime job wasn’t revenue protection, but protecting the train (as it were). Easy for those so inclined to justify not interacting with all those pesky passengers by claiming there were more pressing concerns (remember, no computers to monitor things). A small financial incentive was beneficial all round (except to the passenger who might otherwise have legitimately travelled for nothing).

 

[LowLevel]

What that points to is poor performance management before the incentive came in. Reminds me of London Underground scoring people for announcements when trains are delayed, I know a few people who just punch the announcement out every time the train stops anywhere, without actually passing on any useful information, just so they tick the box. I don’t think LU does a bonus for information any more.




Either a ticket needs to be sold or it doesn’t, so I’ve never really understood the objective of commission. Again, it shouldn’t need to rely on £ to get guards essentially doing their job, especially in the setting where operators are now eager to take door duties away if they can get away with it. Poor supervision.

It was introduced by BR as part of the package of measures alongside open stations and the withdrawal/reduction of dedicated revenue protection staff. Commission paid to encourage formerly purely operational guards/trainmen to work effectively as conductors.

At my own TOC it was stopped and then brought back again some years ago (now one grade of guard gets it and the other doesn't but has a higher base salary) so the TOC must see some value in it.

 

[amahy]

Except , as the title implies, the guard’s prime job wasn’t revenue protection, but protecting the train (as it were). Easy for those so inclined to justify not interacting with all those pesky passengers by claiming there were more pressing concerns (remember, no computers to monitor things). A small financial incentive was beneficial all round (except to the passenger who might otherwise have legitimately travelled for nothing).

Indeed. This is half the reason I made this thread in the first place - the UK’s rail network seems to have forgotten what the role of the train guard is. It is a safety critical role, to ensure the safety of the train, and its passengers. Revenue protection is only a tiny part of the role, and arguably, the least important, if you stop looking at everything from a financial stand point! Yet this is what always seems to be the priority.

 

[DarloRich]

Perhaps linked to what @Bletchleyite says about LNWR ticket checks above I have seen a recent increase in LNWR revenue protection squads operating on MKC > Euston services along with regular complete blocks at MKC.

PS- I agree entirely with @ainsworth74 comments above about Northern.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Perhaps linked to what @Bletchleyite says about LNWR ticket checks above I have seen a recent increase in LNWR revenue protection squads operating on MKC > Euston services along with regular complete blocks at MKC.

Yes, I've noticed more RPIs about, but not guard checks. It (alongside the announcement I mentioned) does almost suggest they've given up and just got more RPIs to do it instead.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed. This is half the reason I made this thread in the first place - the UK’s rail network seems to have forgotten what the role of the train guard is. It is a safety critical role, to ensure the safety of the train, and its passengers. Revenue protection is only a tiny part of the role, and arguably, the least important, if you stop looking at everything from a financial stand point! Yet this is what always seems to be the priority.

Aside from non-revenue guards (are there any of those left?) it is part of the role when not doing safety related stuff, which is most of the period between "ding ding" and keying in again at the next station. Reading the Sun* during that time isn't however part of it.

* Other low quality "newspapers" are available.

 

[35B]

Indeed. This is half the reason I made this thread in the first place - the UK’s rail network seems to have forgotten what the role of the train guard is. It is a safety critical role, to ensure the safety of the train, and its passengers. Revenue protection is only a tiny part of the role, and arguably, the least important, if you stop looking at everything from a financial stand point! Yet this is what always seems to be the priority.

The guard's role has evolved over time and some would suggest that in it's traditional form it is no longer required (but this isn't about DOO). For most trains, most of the time, the safety of train and passengers is best ensured by having the guard working within the passenger saloon, engaging with passengers and providing confidence that there is a staff presence. Ticket checking provides a valuable way of doing that, engaging with passengers and providing a way to identify and deal with troublemakers.

30-odd years ago, plenty of guards never left the cab except for despatch duties. In behaving like that, they undermined their colleagues and their union when claims were made that guards ensure safety on trains. They also seemed immune to local management. As the revenue and other duties have been combined, commission was introduced - to mixed effect. I've personally no issue with scans being paid for in a way that should, roughly, mimic the commission that the same guard would have received before online purchases. If that small carrot ensures the job is done fully, then all to the good.

 

[DarloRich]

Yes, I've noticed more RPIs about, but not guard checks. It (alongside the announcement I mentioned) does almost suggest they've given up and just got more RPIs to do it instead.

maybe - I have also seen these squads tackle anti social behaviour quite effectively.

We rarely, very rarely, get a ticket check on the Marston Vale. It is the definition of a pay on challenge railway. The main problem being revenue loss to the wider LNWR from a feeder service and poor apparent usage statistics which will be used to close the service.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

But my God, little can beat CrossCountry in the "being awful in every conceivable way" metrics.

I've had more than a few incidents of XC guards being incredibly unfriendly and unprofessional; in one case, with an XC guard on a Bristol-Sheffield run, when I informed him someone had stolen my seat reservation, he said words to the effect of "what do you want me to do? Go away". Had he simply said "terribly sorry, but there's nothing I can do. Have you tried Coach Z?", I'd have been far less miffed. Another guard on a service into Cardiff spent a solid minute and a half inspecting my ticket, as she seemingly convinced herself it was a fake. She shot me a rather angry look after clipping it, seemingly disappointed she wouldn't be able to throw me off the train for having a counterfeit.

The last time I used CrossCountry one guard (and I had them at least four times on previous journeys) was addiment that my ticket wasn't vaild. He seemed to blow a fuse when I pointed out his extremely poor customer service skills and would be better off working where I was at the time then he'd really lose his rag. He simply looked at me and carried on looking miffed.

I've since opted to using my car since I've got a guarrenteed seat, first class view (of the road ahead), don't have to put up with whingy passengers who'll either be a) still wearing a face nappy as of 2026, b) playing their phone on the highest level possible so that everyone else can hear it, c) blocking spare seats with bags so that no one else can sit down. I just park and ride where possible.