XC Voyager Refurbishment

[cakefiend]

Noticed this in Paul Bigland's blog:



Have the units been retrofitted with underfloor heating? This wasn't quoted as part of the refurb that I saw - any more information on this?

Presumably replaced with electric heating vents to replace radiators supplied by engine bleed air?

 

[rower40]

<Flippant question>
Does the big "X" near the end mean that this unit can't operate in multiple? (Sigh. Even fewer 8- and 9-car diagrams.)

 

[Class 317]

I'd question that. In such a tight layout that's exactly where my knee goes.

Best place is under the seat you're sitting on, not as easy to find but it's the only place it doesn't obstruct anything.

Having sockets under the seats can make it hard to fit luggage underneath. Given the abysmal overhead luggage racks this can be important if you have a small bag with you.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Having sockets under the seats can make it hard to fit luggage underneath. Given the abysmal overhead luggage racks this can be important if you have a small bag with you.

Luggage should be placed under the seat in front of you, not in someone else's foot room. The original seats (and all seats in aircraft) have a bar to enforce this.

 

[GilfachFargoed]

The Avanti one probably does more - just 52 seats in coach D when a Mk2 coach with the same sort of layout and a body 3m shorter fits 64.

https://www.seat61.com/reference/trainseatplans/avanti-voyager-seat-map.pdf

There's barely two thirds of the length used by seating. It's extremely poor.

As you may know Virgin's original plan had been for 3 classes on the Voyager sets (including, incredibly, one that was 3+2). As these would have involved whole vehicles of a specific class the disability regs. required accessible facilities in each class and hence all toilets provided were the rather space inefficient accessible type. Thankfully the '3+2' class was dropped prior to build, but presumably too late to amend the toilet provision. Other fleets avoided this by generally using composite vehicles (185 / 377 etc.), being long enough that an additional accessible toilet didn't seriously impinge on capacity (390), or in the case of the 180 presumably a derogation based on demonstrating that the sole accessible toilet could be safely accessed from First Class via the gangway to the next vehicle.

 

[Djgr]

As you may know Virgin's original plan had been for 3 classes on the Voyager sets (including, incredibly, one that was 3+2). As these would have involved whole vehicles of a specific class the disability regs. required accessible facilities in each class and hence all toilets provided were the rather space inefficient accessible type. Thankfully the '3+2' class was dropped prior to build, but presumably too late to amend the toilet provision. Other fleets avoided this by generally using composite vehicles (185 / 377 etc.), being long enough that an additional accessible toilet didn't seriously impinge on capacity (390), or in the case of the 180 presumably a derogation based on demonstrating that the sole accessible toilet could be safely accessed from First Class via the gangway to the next vehicle.

From what I recall Virgin developed Voyagers without any input from existing railway expertise, on the basis that as part of the "thrusting" private sector they knew best.

Hence this nonsense, inadequate luggage facilities, Virgin Radio nobody used, Virgin Cola nobody wanted. And yes they were told.

And of course the culimination of this was the disastrous Operation Princess.

 

[Mogz]

At

From what I recall Virgin developed Voyagers without any input from existing railway expertise, on the basis that as part of the "thrusting" private sector they knew best.

Hence this nonsense, inadequate luggage facilities, Virgin Radio nobody used, Virgin Cola nobody wanted. And yes they were told.

And of course the culimination of this was the disastrous Operation Princess.

At one point didn’t they also propose a solution to the lack of luggage space that was effectively large items of luggage could be collected from home and then taken by road to your destination?

 

[ThatBloke]

Noticed this in Paul Bigland's blog:



Have the units been retrofitted with underfloor heating? This wasn't quoted as part of the refurb that I saw - any more information on this?

The saloon internal heating system is now entirely reliant on the HVAC.
The floor level hot water system, (using heat from the engine) was decommissioned >10years ago, due to continual leaks, mainly from the underframecontrol valve.
The cost of redesign of the valve and renewal costs were considered prohibitive, compared with just working the HVAC a bit harder.
Whilst theoretically you could remove that redundant foot level pipework, and replace with a new smaller profile grille to increase space at floor level.
I doubt the cost vs the benefit would make it viable for Beacon or the DFT to fund it.

 

[FrontSideBus]

To be fair, I loved virgin cola tbh. I had forgotten it even existed until I read the above post.

 

[GoneSouth]

At

At one point didn’t they also propose a solution to the lack of luggage space that was effectively large items of luggage could be collected from home and then taken by road to your destination?

I’d have travelled in the bag if that were the case and their 3+2 seating idea had been implemented, it would probably have been more comfortable!

Just imagine if that 3+2 has gone ahead, we’d be paying the same astronomical prices we are today but with a far more uncomfortable journey. To get your 2+2 we all use today would have cost even more. Ouch

I’ve travelled on a 3+2 class 321 from King’s Cross to Wakefield and it’s an experience I wouldn’t want to repeat!

 

[Snapper]

Presumably replaced with electric heating vents to replace radiators supplied by engine bleed air?

The rooftop HVAC system has taken over.

 

[FrontSideBus]

The new seats similar to ones used in Greater Anglia FLIRT's? If so then they are not bad to be honest.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The rooftop HVAC system has taken over.

Is this the first application of that on UK rail as thus far it's been the norm that you fire in cold air at the top and cook the ankles at the bottom and let it mix? Is it acting as an air source heat pump? Is this new with the refurb?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Feb 2026 ==

The new seats similar to ones used in Greater Anglia FLIRT's? If so then they are not bad to be honest.

They aren't the worst to sit on but they sap legroom as they have very thick backs for a modern seat. The legroom on the GA FLIRTs is rather poor as a result (and the 196s).

 

[43096]

They aren't the worst to sit on but they sap legroom as they have very thick backs for a modern seat.

Which is what makes them an improvement on the frankly appalling seats used elsewhere.

 

[sabanda]

In a still taken from this video it's clear that the toilet doors have indeed received new vinyls as per the original plans.

 

[Snapper]

Is this the first application of that on UK rail as thus far it's been the norm that you fire in cold air at the top and cook the ankles at the bottom and let it mix? Is it acting as an air source heat pump? Is this new with the refurb?

No. I was told this happened several years ago. It's not part of the refurb which doesn't touch anything below the solebar.

 

[Russel]

In a still taken from this video it's clear that the toilet doors have indeed received new vinyls as per the original plans.

I hope the toilet walls receive a vinyl wrap too.

 

[sabanda]

I hope the toilet walls receive a vinyl wrap too.

Seems unlikely as it wasn't included in the original imagery. However, it strikes me as fairly probable that they end up adding vinyls on subsequent units after the first couple of inevitable vandalisms occur!

 

[Class 317]

Luggage should be placed under the seat in front of you, not in someone else's foot room. The original seats (and all seats in aircraft) have a bar to enforce this.

I was referring to putting it under the seat in front. The bar just reduces the size you can fit underneath.

 

[Russel]

Seems unlikely as it wasn't included in the original imagery. However, it strikes me as fairly probable that they end up adding vinyls on subsequent units after the first couple of inevitable vandalisms occur!

Exactly, it seems very short sighted not to include it.

 

[E B]

Any automatic announcements added? After tinkering around for years, even northern have a half working automatic station announcement now. It’s not great but it’s at least consistently not great rather than random inaudible TMs making the announcements badly.

The unrefurbished voyagers have automatic announcements, but they are very rarely used. I have attached a clip to this post, whether it works or not we shall see.

 

[superalbs]

The unrefurbished voyagers have automatic announcements, but they are very rarely used. I have attached a clip to this post, whether it works or not we shall see.

It did not.

 

[GoneSouth]

The unrefurbished voyagers have automatic announcements, but they are very rarely used. I have attached a clip to this post, whether it works or not we shall see.

Sadly it didn’t. I’ve used these trains for 25 years and never realised they had automatic announcements. Why don’t they use them instead of mumbling or just shouting Birmingham New Street without context !

 

[Russel]

Sadly it didn’t. I’ve used these trains for 25 years and never realised they had automatic announcements. Why don’t they use them instead of mumbling or just shouting Birmingham New Street without context !

I'd rather it be one or the other, if XC decided to mandate the use of the auto-announcements, the train crew would repeat it all straight after anyway, we need less announcements, not more.

 

[LowLevel]

Sadly it didn’t. I’ve used these trains for 25 years and never realised they had automatic announcements. Why don’t they use them instead of mumbling or just shouting Birmingham New Street without context !

Most trains have had some sort of functionality for auto announcement. All of the 22x did including the 222s, the operators just chose not to use them. Even the Mk4s had them from new under BR.

 

[Railperf]

The film on the windows blocking GPS and phone signal is not a myth. I believe the windows with the emergency escape writing on them in each carriage (either end) don’t have the film on them to allow them to shatter properly in the event of an emergency so you may find phone and GPS might work better in those spaces.

From my point of view, I really hope the film is removed on the refurbs as working on board is made worse at the moment when there are WiFi issues on the train and the 4G/5G signal cannot get through to allow us to do our jobs properly.

I thought the film was within the glass rather than something added to the outside - which would require every one of glass to be removed. And if so, would the HVAC system need to be updated to cope with the additional UV rays in the cabin
Saying that, there are new styles of anti UV coatings that don't block radio signals being fitted to new trains. But how much would it cost to reglaze a voyager set?

 

[GoneSouth]

I'd rather it be one or the other, if XC decided to mandate the use of the auto-announcements, the train crew would repeat it all straight after anyway, we need less announcements, not more.

Why would they have to repeat them?
I’d prefer they didn’t bother if they’re of such poor quality as the ones I’ve heard this week.

GWRs auto announcements prove an intercity train can have relatively reliable, clear and audible announcements.

I’d go as far as saying I’d like that system to become the voice used across all of GBR.

Have XC ever used their system?

 

[danshrimp]

In a still taken from this video it's clear that the toilet doors have indeed received new vinyls as per the original plans.

All credit to them, it looks like they've done a very thorough job. It looks like a brand new train. (Albeit not a very good one.)

 

[ChilliSauce]

You’ll find them by the toilets…

You will have no problem finding the toilet .. just follow the smell !

 

[GoneSouth]

Geoff Marshal was at the launch event and has now posted a video on YouTube. Here’s the link

My observations are:

Seats don’t look as comfortable as current ones but aren’t as bad as I was expecting, only getting my backside on one will confirm this. Are they the same seats used on the WMT 196s?

Lighting looks like it could be a bit harsh, like Hitachi

The rest of us stopped painting things cream in 1985.

Overall looks like a good improvement but at an eye watering price. Some of the design choices wouldn’t have been my choices, but it will be a pleasure to travel on something that is clean and doesn’t have 25 years of filth ground into the carpets.