CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[sd0733]

What do you mean by "an ASDO bubble"?

Do the corresponding OOU indicators also illuminate when ASDO is manually overridden at a GOP (guard operation panel)?

Every single station they pass through has a "bubble" around the platforms in the database.

 

[WirralLine]

Every single station they pass through has a "bubble" around the platforms in the database, when a unit is within the bubble the lights will light up until the doors are released, they stay lit on any that arent released until it leaves the bubble again.

Yes, they still work exactly the same. Over ride stations work in the same way with regards to that.

At stations it knows, the doors that will open extinguish when it enters the bubble, the doors that ASDO wont allow remain lit as not in use. At a station the ASDO doesn't know, all doors light as out of use unless manually overridden by the guard.

 

[ThePeakNed]

What do you mean by "an ASDO bubble"?

Do the corresponding OOU indicators also illuminate when ASDO is manually overridden at a GOP (guard operation panel)?

A virtual space surrounding a station (by some considerable distance) that says “this is x / y / z location”. It’s done by GPS.

 

[sd0733]

At stations it knows, the doors that will open extinguish when it enters the bubble, the doors that ASDO wont allow remain lit as not in use. At a station the ASDO doesn't know, all doors light as out of use unless manually overridden by the guard.

Doh of course they do . Thought as soon as id posted it didnt look quite right.

 

[tfw756rider]

Doh of course they do . Thought as soon as id posted it didnt look quite right.

Does anyone in here know why, after the 197029+197030 duo worked the above 16 (4+10+2) runs on the Cambrian, the schedules just cut off? It's now been nearly a week since the last one ran, and I haven't seen a schedule for them going back off the Cambrian either.

@sd0733, do you happen to know the answer to this question, with schedules being your thing? It has now actually been a week.

 

[sd0733]

@sd0733, do you happen to know the answer to this question, with schedules being your thing? It has now actually been a week.

Afraid cant say for sure but fitter training was pencilled in at Mach for the depot staff there so could well be undertaking that.

 

[Jez]

Seems to be a shortage of 197s today, i noticed quite a few Manchester to South Wales short formed to 3 or even 2 cars on a few services.

It seems the 2030 Manchester-Cardiff is a MK4 as far as Crewe then changing to a 197 as there was only 1 unit on the 1915 arrival.

 

[sd0733]

Seems to be a shortage of 197s today, i noticed quite a few Manchester to South Wales short formed to 3 or even 2 cars on a few services.

It seems the 2030 Manchester-Cardiff is a MK4 as far as Crewe then changing to a 197 as there was only 1 unit on the 1915 arrival.

A few shown as failed overnight and also some on one way trips to Chester for repair so not the greatest day availability wise.
Its not as bad as it would have been a few weeks back now most of the units which had the cracks are now repaired and back out.

 

[tfw756rider]

Afraid cant say for sure but fitter training was pencilled in at Mach for the depot staff there so could well be undertaking that.

Ah thanks, I did wonder if that was the case!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Feb 2026 ==

I thought I'd post these photos / video stills (attached) in here, as I'm not sure how many people in here had actually seen these views of a 197, taken by drone in the factory aka CAF Newport, Llanwern (other than people who actually work underneath 197s), as they were "hidden" in a YouTube video that doesn't have "197" in the title or description.

Indeed, the source video is "Mark 5 Coaches: Sleepers and TransPennine" from the Institution of Mechanical Engineers - IMechE, uploaded on the 13/6/21.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Feb 2026 ==

I thought I'd post these photos / video stills (attached) in here, as I'm not sure how many people in here had actually seen these views of a 197, taken by drone in the factory aka CAF Newport, Llanwern (other than people who actually work underneath 197s), as they were "hidden" in a YouTube video that doesn't have "197" in the title or description.

Indeed, the source video is "Mark 5 Coaches: Sleepers and TransPennine" from the Institution of Mechanical Engineers - IMechE, uploaded on the 13/6/21.

Does this stuff look familiar to @XFeed?

 

[XFeed]

Ah thanks, I did wonder if that was the case!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Feb 2026 ==

I thought I'd post these photos / video stills (attached) in here, as I'm not sure how many people in here had actually seen these views of a 197, taken by drone in the factory aka CAF Newport, Llanwern (other than people who actually work underneath 197s), as they were "hidden" in a YouTube video that doesn't have "197" in the title or description.

Indeed, the source video is "Mark 5 Coaches: Sleepers and TransPennine" from the Institution of Mechanical Engineers - IMechE, uploaded on the 13/6/21.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Feb 2026 ==


Does this stuff look familiar to @XFeed?

Wow how clean is that place and the unit too. Going by the date of 6/21 the unit possibly could be 003 as in picture 3 it shows part of the ERTMS/ETCS equipment.
Other pictures include No 4, on the R/H side shows, the compressor and its oil cooler. Pictures 7+8 show bits of Powerpack. Picture 9 shows parts of the Glycol heating system. The rest of the pictures are pretty straight forward. Non of this looks that clean now

Here`s a better picture of the power pack.

 

[Russel]

Any news on weather the catering cupboards are ever going to see any use on these?

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Any news on weather the catering cupboards are ever going to see any use on these?

Wasted space in my opinion.

 

[tfw756rider]

Wow how clean is that place and the unit too. Going by the date of 6/21 the unit possibly could be 003 as in picture 3 it shows part of the ERTMS/ETCS equipment.
Other pictures include No 4, on the R/H side shows, the compressor and its oil cooler. Pictures 7+8 show bits of Powerpack. Picture 9 shows parts of the Glycol heating system. The rest of the pictures are pretty straight forward. Non of this looks that clean now

Here`s a better picture of the power pack.

Thank you so much for telling what's in each picture! And for the picture of the Powerpack out-of-unit.

And yes, it wouldn't surprise me if it was 197003, as I did think it looked a bit "ETCS-y"

 

[D365]

Yes that’s the eurobalise reader in photo 3. Note the yellow warning triangle - ETCS must be fully isolated before working underneath the vehicle.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Ah thanks, I did wonder if that was the case!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Feb 2026 ==

I thought I'd post these photos / video stills (attached) in here, as I'm not sure how many people in here had actually seen these views of a 197, taken by drone in the factory aka CAF Newport, Llanwern (other than people who actually work underneath 197s), as they were "hidden" in a YouTube video that doesn't have "197" in the title or description.

Indeed, the source video is "Mark 5 Coaches: Sleepers and TransPennine" from the Institution of Mechanical Engineers - IMechE, uploaded on the 13/6/21.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Feb 2026 ==


Does this stuff look familiar to @XFeed?

I notice there is a different livery unit/coach alongside visible in most of the pictures. I suppose its a 196 ?.

 

[tfw756rider]

I notice there is a different livery unit/coach alongside visible in most of the pictures. I suppose its a 196 ?.

It is a 196, yes.

Llanwern assembled some (or most) of the 196s, something like 23 later 195s and 331111, in addition to all of the 197s (well, 197041 is still to come out) and some? of the Israel? trains/trams.

They'll also assemble 897003-897010, I believe.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Feb 2026 ==

Yes that’s the eurobalise reader in photo 3. Note the yellow warning triangle - ETCS must be fully isolated before working underneath the vehicle.

Ah thanks, yes. Strong radio signals.

 

[ThePeakNed]

Any news on weather the catering cupboards are ever going to see any use on these?

Unlikely. And they can’t be removed either owing to them being integral to the structure of the body shell.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Unlikely. And they can’t be removed either owing to them being integral to the structure of the body shell.

If they are part of the structure then are the redundant catering cupboards big enough for a loo ?. Or could be incorporated as part of a loo. I doubt it is possible but really an extra toilet would be more useful judging by comments. At least the space would be used.

 

[WirralLine]

The catering cupboards currently get used to store emergency drinking water, and also some cleaning supplies, toilet paper stock, bin bags etc. They all come in handy! The big section of the catering unit designed to house the trolley however is hardly used. Sometimes the hosts put the trolleys in if theyre taking their break.

Last i heard (admittedly a while ago) they were looking at altering the cupboard door so it wont block the aisle, and trolleys would be based in the cupboard with at seat ordering via QR codes at some point, whether theyre still planning to im not sure.

In my mind an option would be to take the big cupboard door off and fit a luggage rack inside, luggage space could be better on these units especially on Airport services.

 

[Bikeman78]

Which is extremely good design. Not. Passengers waiting to get off then believe the door is broken, or will be off the platform, so start walking to the next door which is also 'out of use', maybe panic and run to the next one and so on. Until regular users tell them it's just like that.

Yep, I've been there myself. All CAF units do it. It causes unnecessary panic. How are passengers meant to determine if a door is genuinely out of use or off the platform if that message appears at every station?

 

[Russel]

Unlikely. And they can’t be removed either owing to them being integral to the structure of the body shell.

Oh how sadly predictable.

In what way are they integral to the body shell though?

 

[sd0733]

Ah thanks, I did wonder if that was the case!

To confirm, they are on maintenance staff training and are expected to be there for 6 weeks, this is coming to the end of week one of those 6.

 

[tfw756rider]

To confirm, they are on maintenance staff training and are expected to be there for 6 weeks, this is coming to the end of week one of those 6.

Thanks very much, so it should end around the 20/3/26 then - helps with my planning of things.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Feb 2026 ==

I've been informed of 4 schedules for (a) different 197(s) running from Shrewsbury Abbey Foregate CS to Welshpool and back (twice) in the early hours of Thu 19/2/26:

Realtime Trains | 3C00 0055 Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs to Welshpool | 19/02/2026

Real-time train running information for 3C00 0055 departure from Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs to Welshpool on 19/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 3C01 0130 Welshpool to Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs | 19/02/2026

Real-time train running information for 3C01 0130 departure from Welshpool to Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs on 19/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 3C02 0221 Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs to Welshpool | 19/02/2026

Real-time train running information for 3C02 0221 departure from Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs to Welshpool on 19/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 3C03 0255 Welshpool to Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs | 19/02/2026

Real-time train running information for 3C03 0255 departure from Welshpool to Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs on 19/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

As this will be during 197029+197030s' maintenance staff training at Machynlleth, this could quite possibly be the first time that 3 or 4 197s will be on the Cambrian simultaneously (even if not all "out" running) rather than just 2.

 

[Russel]

Thanks very much, so it should end around the 20/3/26 then - helps with my planning of things.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Feb 2026 ==

I've been informed of 4 schedules for (a) different 197(s) running from Shrewsbury Abbey Foregate CS to Welshpool and back (twice) in the early hours of Thu 19/2/26:

Realtime Trains | 3C00 0055 Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs to Welshpool | 19/02/2026

Real-time train running information for 3C00 0055 departure from Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs to Welshpool on 19/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 3C01 0130 Welshpool to Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs | 19/02/2026

Real-time train running information for 3C01 0130 departure from Welshpool to Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs on 19/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 3C02 0221 Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs to Welshpool | 19/02/2026

Real-time train running information for 3C02 0221 departure from Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs to Welshpool on 19/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 3C03 0255 Welshpool to Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs | 19/02/2026

Real-time train running information for 3C03 0255 departure from Welshpool to Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs on 19/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

As this will be during 197029+197030s' maintenance staff training at Machynlleth, this could quite possibly be the first time that 3 or 4 197s will be on the Cambrian simultaneously (even if not all "out" running) rather than just 2.

How far away from passenger service on the Cambrian are we?

Seems to be dragging on a bit this does.

 

[tfw756rider]

How far away from passenger service on the Cambrian are we?

Seems to be dragging on a bit this does.

6-and-a-bit months (September 2026).

 

[Rhydgaled]

In what way are they integral to the body shell though?

Good question; it certainly seems rather unlikely, particularly since they appear to still have a window there when viewed from outside. (EDIT: for clarity, this is the catering cupboard we're talking about). I also note above that somebody asked if it could be replaced by a toilet; however the seat plans show it to be located in the same coach as the existing (wheelchair-accessible) toilet, so presumably there wouldn't be space for the required water/waste tank(s) compared to if it was in the other driving vehicle.

 

[Russel]

6-and-a-bit months (September 2026).

What a shambles.

Good question; it certainly seems rather unlikely, particularly since they appear to still have a window there when viewed from outside. (EDIT: for clarity, this is the catering cupboard we're talking about). I also note above that somebody asked if it could be replaced by a toilet; however the seat plans show it to be located in the same coach as the existing (wheelchair-accessible) toilet, so presumably there wouldn't be space for the required water/waste tank(s) compared to if it was in the other driving vehicle.

Indeed, I'm struggling to believe that it's structurally integral to the bodyshell to the point where it can't be removed.

I'm guessing it's more to do with being a lot of work and expensive to remove.

 

[tfw756rider]

What a shambles.

Maybe, but at least there have now been some driver training runs from Machynlleth to Aberystwyth and back, from Machynlleth to Pwllheli and back, and from Machynlleth to Shrewsbury and back, in December 2025, January 2026 and early February 2026 with 197029+197030 (following the pre-driver-training check runs in November 2025, which was also when the September 2026 entry-to-service date was set).

(When I say driver training by the way, I do mean guard as well - in fact, I heard that as of late January it's being done with more proper guard stuff).

The duo are now 1 week into 6-week maintenance staff training at Machynlleth depot, which should finish around the 20/3/26, then theoretically there will be a decent 5 months of driver training from April to August before the start of entry-to-service in September.

 

[Russel]

Maybe, but at least there have now been some driver training runs from Machynlleth to Aberystwyth and back, from Machynlleth to Pwllheli and back, and from Machynlleth to Shrewsbury and back, in December 2025, January 2026 and early February 2026 with 197029+197030 (following the pre-driver-training check runs in November 2025, which was also when the September 2026 entry-to-service date was set).

(When I say driver training by the way, I do mean guard as well - in fact, I heard that as of late January it's being done with more proper guard stuff).

The duo are now 1 week into 6-week maintenance staff training at Machynlleth depot, which should finish around the 20/3/26, then theoretically there will be a decent 5 months of driver training from May to August before the start of entry-to-service in September.

How many times has the date been pushed back though?

 

[tfw756rider]

How many times has the date been pushed back though?

I don't know how many times, and at this point I don't actually know whether it was originally meant to be 2022 or 2023.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Feb 2026 ==

Does anyone in here know what exactly the schedules for Thu 19/2/26 are for? They're in the early hours of the morning, but are stated as being operated by Transport for Wales / TfW and have the 3C0x headcodes (also used by the daytime TfW driver training runs), and are only Shrewsbury AFCS-Welshpool-Shrewsbury AFCS-Welshpool-Shrewsbury AFCS

(the Rail Operations Group-operated ETCS mileage accumulation runs in 2025, with 3Q9x - later 3Q8x - headcodes, were also in the early hours of the morning, but were Crewe South Yard-Machynlleth-Welshpool-Newtown-Crewe South Yard).