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Midlands Rail Hub 20m extra seats

43074

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HS2 is running alongside the existing route for a good distance so they could find a solution, if they can't find someone who can.
Most of that distance is at depth surfacing from Bromford Tunnel, then elevated above the existing railway climbing up to the Curzon viaducts. Doesn't sound like an ideal place for a junction to me.
 
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The Planner

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HS2 is running alongside the existing route for a good distance so they could find a solution, if they can't find someone who can.
As @43074 has noted, its only a small area where that would be possible, and its going to be a flat junction that would eat capacity.
 

3RDGEN

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You know what HS2 could really do with? Another respec and redesign, just to make it take even longer to materialise and cost even more...
The aim would be to lower the cost of Midlands Rail Hub so that project would pay the costs.
If the eastern side happens, it does probably see the beginning of the severing of Nottingham-Cardiff, which doesn't have to be the same service really. Might make the most sense. But maybe it takes the Bristol, and all Cardiff goes to Moor St - or similar.
Not sure the plan is to cut the through services, my understanding is that the current Nott - Cardiff service remains at New St with the planned extra services using the enlarged Moor Street, the New St - Leicester/Nottingham services move to Moor St and are increased I believe.
As @43074 has noted, its only a small area where that would be possible, and its going to be a flat junction that would eat capacity.
The East services joining the Water Orton line on the flat at Satley or further down towards Washwood Heath can't make much difference. HS2 will have little issue with capacity in the early years with only a handfull of London trains per hour to service, which the media will report as another HS2 fiasco. (HS2 trains could also access a newly electrified Birmingham - Derby - Sheffield - Leeds route).

If Curzon St can be used, (big if), you avoid building the new "Eastern" platforms at Moor St and the East curve with associated junctions/signaling compared to a flat junction between HS2 and the Water Orton line and lineside signaling into part of Curzon St. If you can deliver 95% of the Midlands Rail Hub East benefits for 75% of the cost then it should be looked at, if it's a no then OK continue with the current project which delivers the capacity Birmingham needs.
 

Starmill

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Why though? There's plenty of capacity at Snow Hill/Moor St with a little expansion. It's not wasting money, it would allow for SW/East Midlands connections to be removed from New St which IS at capacity.

Curzon St obviously won't be anywhere near capacity on launch, but that should be used for future HS growth to across the North.
It looks like the stations at Moor St and Snow Hill will become slightly nicer to use as well, and slightly more spacious. As discussed in another thread, trying to get anything more out of New St is all but impossible without land take now.

The improved layout at Kings Norton will make a huge difference to punctuality and some of the reorganised services would be impossible without it. It's potentially a very big deal.
 

takno

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The aim would be to lower the cost of Midlands Rail Hub so that project would pay the costs.

Not sure the plan is to cut the through services, my understanding is that the current Nott - Cardiff service remains at New St with the planned extra services using the enlarged Moor Street, the New St - Leicester/Nottingham services move to Moor St and are increased I believe.

The East services joining the Water Orton line on the flat at Satley or further down towards Washwood Heath can't make much difference. HS2 will have little issue with capacity in the early years with only a handfull of London trains per hour to service, which the media will report as another HS2 fiasco. (HS2 trains could also access a newly electrified Birmingham - Derby - Sheffield - Leeds route).

If Curzon St can be used, (big if), you avoid building the new "Eastern" platforms at Moor St and the East curve with associated junctions/signaling compared to a flat junction between HS2 and the Water Orton line and lineside signaling into part of Curzon St. If you can deliver 95% of the Midlands Rail Hub East benefits for 75% of the cost then it should be looked at, if it's a no then OK continue with the current project which delivers the capacity Birmingham needs.
I don't fancy the chances of connecting to HS2 being cheaper than building the curve and platforms - it would be a complex interface with already-designed slab track in a constrained space. It would also either require all the stock using it to be fitted out with an expensive signalling system it will likely never otherwise need, or for the whole of Curzon Street station and approaches to be fitted with a hugely costly conventional overlay.

In addition to being more expensive, it would also necessarily be a temporary solution (albeit with a life of 10-20 years or so), so the long term value of it is pretty terrible.

Operationally, it brings in exactly the sort of problems they are currently trying to resolve at Old Oak Common with platform heights. It also prevents future routeing opportunities, like running East Midlands - southwest trains with a reversal, or sending some of the east midlands trains through to Stourbridge and Worcester.
 

SCDR_WMR

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It looks like the stations at Moor St and Snow Hill will become slightly nicer to use as well, and slightly more spacious. As discussed in another thread, trying to get anything more out of New St is all but impossible without land take now.

The improved layout at Kings Norton will make a huge difference to punctuality and some of the reorganised services would be impossible without it. It's potentially a very big deal.
Absolutely. I'm all for money being spend on Snow Hill and Moor St, they both have great potential and the lines through there have unfortunately suffered since COVID.

Some joined up thinking, increased frequency, more Chiltern services and then adding Camp Hill and future East Mids services would be a huge gain whilst taking a little strain off of New St.

People begrudge their locations, but they are just as central as New St is, especially given how much development has already happened around Moor St Queensway and future development of Digbeth.

Hopefully Birmingham will truly have more than 1 'Main' station and a HS station.
 

Mag_seven

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The forum moderting team have decided that discussion about the proposal to close Bordesley station deserves its own thread which can be found here:
 

BanburyBlue

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I noticed this morning on arrival into Snow Hill, that the old tram shelters on platform 4 are being demolished.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

And safety barriers and people in orange jackets are around...
1771415139292.jpeg

1771415176955.jpeg
 
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Cross City

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Look at those images, it's absolutely mental that you cannot go from the Metro platforms at St Chads to the NR platforms at Snow hill without having to go down the massive staircase, onto the main road, through that awful tunnel, down Livery St a bit and into the back entrance of SH.
 

The exile

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Look at those images, it's absolutely mental that you cannot go from the Metro platforms at St Chads to the NR platforms at Snow hill without having to go down the massive staircase, onto the main road, through that awful tunnel, down Livery St a bit and into the back entrance of SH.
Though given the easy interchanges at Jewellery Quarter and The Hawthorns, how many people actually need to do it?
 

Cross City

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Though given the easy interchanges at Jewellery Quarter and The Hawthorns, how many people actually need to do it?

What if you're heading to a Chiltern service going South?

Pain in the arse to get on a tram at Black Lake for example, get off at Jewellery Quarter, get on another train for 1 stop, and then change to your Chiltern service when a simple bridge/connector between the platforms could make it all a 1 change job.
 

The exile

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What if you're heading to a Chiltern service going South?

Pain in the arse to get on a tram at Black Lake for example, get off at Jewellery Quarter, get on another train for 1 stop, and then change to your Chiltern service when a simple bridge/connector between the platforms could make it all a 1 change job.
Fair enough - it’s been a long time since I looked at Chiltern timetables and I’d thought they all either terminated at Moor Street or ran right through to Stourbridge.
 

SCDR_WMR

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Look at those images, it's absolutely mental that you cannot go from the Metro platforms at St Chads to the NR platforms at Snow hill without having to go down the massive staircase, onto the main road, through that awful tunnel, down Livery St a bit and into the back entrance of SH.
I'm sure there was talk about knocking through at the bottom of the escalator from P3 Livery St to St Chads side. Would be useful, guess it was just talking or feasibility stuff only
 

spp

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Look at those images, it's absolutely mental that you cannot go from the Metro platforms at St Chads to the NR platforms at Snow hill without having to go down the massive staircase, onto the main road, through that awful tunnel, down Livery St a bit and into the back entrance of SH.
Agree, some asked me on the tram recently how to get to snow hill. I told them to get off at bull street, a simpler way to explain and almost as quick way.
 

giblets

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Does anyone know the plan for platform4 in terms of timing?! Not seen anything mentioned, theoretically could be in use by the summer (if they really wanted), but definitely would help resilience short term and whilst they do future work and rejig moor st
 

The Planner

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Does anyone know the plan for platform4 in terms of timing?! Not seen anything mentioned, theoretically could be in use by the summer (if they really wanted), but definitely would help resilience short term and whilst they do future work and rejig moor st
No chance of it being this year, may not even be next.
 

city dweller

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Does anyone know the plan for platform4 in terms of timing?! Not seen anything mentioned, theoretically could be in use by the summer (if they really wanted), but definitely would help resilience short term and whilst they do future work and rejig moor st
 

TrainTraveler

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When I last took the Chiltern Railway to Birmingam I wanted a decent change between the train and the Metro (heading North).

The least bad option seemed to be Snow Hill and the exit at the St Chads end.

I could have believed that interchange was made as difficult as possible!

I could see where I wanted to go, but could I get there?

An exit on the Metro side would have been so much easier.

Also my ticket wouldn't let me out and there were not any staff.

Other than that it was fine.
 

giblets

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The video doesnt specify any timings, just gives an overview of what is currently happening at Snow Hill. Exciting stuff...
Putting up boards on the platform edge to cover progress and starting the dismantling of the escalator today.
Maybe they are putting it on platform 1/2 as that’s been boarded up again (it was out of action for what… 6months last year?).
 

Sheddyone

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When I last took the Chiltern Railway to Birmingam I wanted a decent change between the train and the Metro (heading North).

The least bad option seemed to be Snow Hill and the exit at the St Chads end.

I could have believed that interchange was made as difficult as possible!

I could see where I wanted to go, but could I get there?

An exit on the Metro side would have been so much easier.

Also my ticket wouldn't let me out and there were not any staff.

Other than that it was fine.
Easiest way is to take the Livery St (country end) exit from the Snow Hill arches and keep turning left until you get to the St Chads lift/steps. Only a couple of minutes walk.

They were planning to tunnel through from the bottom of the escalators at this end, but it all went quiet not long after they announced the start of the works, back in the Andy Street days.
 

danshrimp

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Of course if you belive the Metro, they'll have an interchange with Moor Street - albeit one that involves coming out of the station and walking across to Albert Street - any day now...
 

TrainTraveler

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I did indeed take the Livery St exit and walk round under the platforms to the St Chads steps.

It was there where I admired the ends of the arches which, had they got an exit door, would have let me get directly to that point

A Moor Street interchange would have been preferred and next time I'm that way it may have been opened.
 

BanburyBlue

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I noticed coming into Snow Hill this morning that hoarding is being put up to cover the Platform 4 works, with 'Midlands Rail Hub' branding on it.
 

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