More praise for SWT from Barry Doe

[Greenback]

He usually wants whatever is best for the passenger (unless of course it is unreasonable). So whilst i cant recall him mentioning a fully interconnecting network, I really cant see him being against it. He realises though, a lot of this is not plausible with the fragmented privatised railway we have, and his views on whether he agress with privatisation or not, is something he very rarely makes obvious in his writings. He leaves that to Wolmar!

It is quite rare these days, but barry Doe has previously mentioend that he was against the chosen method of privatisation, and would have preferred BR to have been privatised whole as UK Rail plc or similar.

 

[radamfi]

I don't think anyone with any knowledge of European trains would hold up French non-TGV trains as a good example. They would typically point to Swiss, German, Dutch etc.

American, Aussie, Indian trains are obviously not considered up to UK/European standard so wouldn't be clear examples to study for best practice. Japan is essentially the only place outside Europe that is widely known to have comparable standards, but is a long way away with a completely different culture so it is understandable for a so called expert not to have been there.

The UK does have frequent trains but that is largely a function of the high population density. Dutch/German/Swiss trains have comparable frequencies with longer trains when comparing similar population densities and total travel times are shorter due to less waiting for connections. Dutch/German/Swiss trains have a 7 day train timetable with small changes for Sundays whereas British trains are totally different on Sunday. And buses are far less likely to stop at the station in Britain.

 

[WestCoast]

If so, you would know that in his view, the most underrated rail system is that of the UK. Mainly because of our very good regular frequent trains, which people conveniently dont see. Which was the most underrated? The French. Why? Because get away from the TGV, and they are totally the opposite, yet people seem to just base the French system on the fast TGVs.

Now im not trying to claim that the UK system is the best in the world. But it goes to show, that actually, we are not languishing behind other European countries.

The complication with the UK system is that the quality varies enormously across the network, the South East network has very little similarity with the Northern or South Westerly network. There is no consistency, with many people their view of the system depends on the local TOC. For example, in Birmingham, at the press launch of a LM 172 , one commentator said "everywhere else has newer trains", which is utter rubbish since, for example, the Manchester rail network survives on mainly ex-BR pacers, sprinters and 323s.

"Very good regular frequent trains" is very subjective indeed, and again depends on where you travel. Would I call my daily pacer journey that? No, I wouldn't. I blame the DfT 100%, and trust me the crappy stock does get comments from those used to better trains in other areas. Perhaps I would have a different view if I commuted on a 444?

If you are looking at a whole system view, France is indeed overrated, since the focus is all on the TGV and neglect towards the branchlines. It's much the same in Spain (although the branchlines are arguably better), but if you were for example to look at Switzerland, Germany or the Netherlands you would see very frequent trains with a dense network, covering the whole of their respective countries with high-speed links integrated within that.

On the subject of fares, the UK can be awfully expensive if you don't know how to play the system, the system is so darn complicated with restrictions sharing no consistency and quirks everywhere you turn.

Now no system is perfect, the British system has its ups and downs and doesn't deserve all the bad press it gets. However, if you were to base your views on the system purely on the InterCity services or the ex-Network South East area I think you would have a better view than those who see the other side of the story. The European systems (SBB, DB and NS specifically) aren't perfect by any means, but in my humble opinion they are that bit closer to perfect than the UK. Major issues like fares, fragmentation and lack of integration let the UK down considerably.

 

[junglejames]

It is quite rare these days, but barry Doe has previously mentioend that he was against the chosen method of privatisation, and would have preferred BR to have been privatised whole as UK Rail plc or similar.

Yes i believe he has mentioned that. He is often quiet on that subject though. Wolmar being the vocal one!
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The complication with the UK system is that the quality varies enormously across the network, the South East network has very little similarity with the Northern or South Westerly network. There is no consistency, with many people their view of the system depends on the local TOC. For example, in Birmingham, at the press launch of a LM 172 , one commentator said "everywhere else has newer trains", which is utter rubbish since, for example, the Manchester rail network survives on mainly ex-BR pacers, sprinters and 323s.

"Very good regular frequent trains" is very subjective indeed, and again depends on where you travel. Would I call my daily pacer journey that? No, I wouldn't. I blame the DfT 100%, and trust me the crappy stock does get comments from those used to better trains in other areas. Perhaps I would have a different view if I commuted on a 444?

If you are looking at a whole system view, France is indeed overrated, since the focus is all on the TGV and neglect towards the branchlines. It's much the same in Spain (although the branchlines are arguably better), but if you were for example to look at Switzerland, Germany or the Netherlands you would see very frequent trains with a dense network, covering the whole of their respective countries with high-speed links integrated within that.

On the subject of fares, the UK can be awfully expensive if you don't know how to play the system, the system is so darn complicated with restrictions sharing no consistency and quirks everywhere you turn.

Now no system is perfect, the British system has its ups and downs and doesn't deserve all the bad press it gets. However, if you were to base your views on the system purely on the InterCity services or the ex-Network South East area I think you would have a better view than those who see the other side of the story. The European systems (SBB, DB and NS specifically) aren't perfect by any means, but in my humble opinion they are that bit closer to perfect than the UK. Major issues like fares, fragmentation and lack of integration let the UK down considerably.

Yes, Switzerland is good. It is usually very easy to travel around. I dont have any experience of the German railways so cant say. Holland is also normally very good.

As you say, the fragmented nature of our system has made our fares structure far too complicated. Rediculously so. This is our main problem.
As for timetables/ frequency. The only place i have any problems are on some Cornish Branches. Everywhere else seems pretty good. Comparable in most places to Switzerland.
Yes these 3 you mention probably are that little bit better overall. This being down to our fares structure.

 

[jopsuk]

Platforms were closed, meaning that there weren't enough platforms to allow trains to be there at the same time so that passengers could transfer between them.

Some (mainly terminal) stations have more platforms now. Dwell times at intermediate stations are low, to keep through journey times low, but making cross-platform interchange between two trains a risky idea anyway due to chances of small delays. Where are you thinking of in particular?

 

[Matt Taylor]

Crewe springs to mind, but there are still plenty of platforms there, and in general terms I don't think that BR had anything to gain by making connections more difficult.

 

[Greenback]

Crewe springs to mind, but there are still plenty of platforms there, and in general terms I don't think that BR had anything to gain by making connections more difficult.

It's interesting that you mention Crewe. At stations like that it must be difficult to provide connections into and out of every possible service.

 

[WestCoast]

It's interesting that you mention Crewe. At stations like that it must be difficult to provide connections into and out of every possible service.

Many a time I have seen people baffled at Crewe, I have struggled with the signage in the past!

 

[lukefarley]

I see in "Rail" that Barry Doe is continuing his love-in with SWT. He has complied a league table of the "best" TOCs and of course SWT comes out top, scoring 9 or 10 in all his categories.

SWT certainly isn't the worst TOC, but what's so wonderful about it? I use it every day and my experience is filthy trains (and getting worse), invisible, silent guards and a general corporate jobsworth, non-customer service attitude coming from the management.

Agreed, SWT isn't the worst, but certainly isn't the best either. My experience of the TOC is of generally good timekeeping, tidy stations and reasonable information, but also of dirty trains, overpriced fares and of a general contempt towards passengers from management, when it comes to customer service/relations.

 

[Greenback]

I expect that Barry Doe has a good relationship with SWT, and so probably deals more with senior management and the press office than with customer relations!

 

[radamfi]

Some (mainly terminal) stations have more platforms now. Dwell times at intermediate stations are low, to keep through journey times low, but making cross-platform interchange between two trains a risky idea anyway due to chances of small delays. Where are you thinking of in particular?

It is very common practice outside the UK for two trains to meet on adjacent platforms for passengers to transfer between them. That effectively creates 4 direct services out of 2. If one is slightly late then the other waits. You don't worry about missing connections by 1 minute like you do in GB.

 

[Greenback]

I don't think it's as common as you think - certainly in Spain or Italy, where my most recent travels have taken me.