Brighton Belle On Test - 2025 onwards

[contrex]

Who pays attention to bogies? You can't even see them when a train is at the platform.

You can from another platform, or from the trackside, or looking at a photo or video taken from those places. Southern electrics had a lot of interest below the solebar. Shoegear, bogies, all sorts of stuff. I pay attention to bogies. Lots of stuff under all carriages to look at. You might as well say that the boiler and cab are the only important parts of a steam loco on that basis.

 

[D6130]

Who pays attention to bogies? You can't even see them when a train is at the platform.

Bogie enthusiasts?....some people have a nose for these sort of things!

 

[contrex]

Bogie enthusiasts?....some people have a nose for these sort of things!

Are you going to get your coat?

 

[Sun Chariot]

Bogie enthusiasts?....some people have a nose for these sort of things!

I think that's brilliant - but others might say it snot.

 

[D6130]

Are you going to get your coat?

I'll wait to see what reactions I receive!

I think that's brilliant - but others might say it snot.

Indeed.... let's see!

 

[fgwrich]

It's a horrid mashup; it looks wrong (those bogies!) and will sound totally wrong to anyone who remembers the original Brighton line express stock.

It’s a strange mashup that’s for certain. Taking something that is of Monocoque construction, slicing the floor out from underneath it, then building it back onto a Mk1 EMU Chassis is some doing.

The Blood and Custard website page is very helpful (tho some of the latest developments not up to date as yet)

BloodandCustard - Brighton Belle

But I see from that 2 driving cars are with the 5 Bel Trust
1 with the tea rooms at Cambridge
1 scrapped after fire damage
2 with VSOE at Stewarts Lane having had some work done on them in their Oostend workshops

Presumably they are in long term store at Stewarts Lane - what do / did VSOE - Belmond intend to do with these driving vehicles? was their plan to make them capable of running / being used as driving vehicles really progressed in any significant way?

Indeed, FYI in case you weren’t aware but one of the VSOE vehicles has migrated to Eastleigh Works (as of last May).

 

[WesternLancer]

Indeed, FYI in case you weren’t aware but one of the VSOE vehicles has migrated to Eastleigh Works (as of last May).

Thanks - I didn't know that - is that one of the VSOE ex Belle driving cars, or one of the trailer cars they also own that is an unrestored spare? I'm assuming it's a driving car but just to check.

 

[fgwrich]

Thanks - I didn't know that - is that one of the VSOE ex Belle driving cars, or one of the trailer cars they also own that is an unrestored spare? I'm assuming it's a driving car but just to check.

Driving car. I have no idea on VSOEs plans for it I’m afraid, it appears to have moved there on the 12/05/25 but has almost not been seen since, although occasional photos have cropped up on other websites.

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[WesternLancer]

Driving car. I have no idea on VSOEs plans for it I’m afraid, it appears to have moved there on the 12/05/25 but has almost not been seen since, although occasional photos have cropped up on other websites.

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Thanks

 

[StephenHunter]

I think that's brilliant - but others might say it snot.

Mucus to some people's ears.

I definitely hope to ride the Belle when its running for passengers.

 

[TonyW590]

Interesting comments on bogies, and the ride that they gave.

Having travelled on the Brighton Belle several times, and on a Western Region "Blue Pullman" a couple of times, my abiding memory is of the atrocious ride to be experienced on both. Serving soup on the BB was unusual, with the large bowls only half-filled to avoid unwanted spillage.

I travelled on the HST "Blue Pullman" last year, and had the usual smooth BT10 experience. A splendid day out.

I look forward to travelling on the BB again in due course, and hopefully will manage to get a full bowl of soup!

 

[Falcon1200]

It's a horrid mashup; it looks wrong (those bogies!) and will sound totally wrong to anyone who remembers the original Brighton line express stock.

There cannot be many who both heard the original sounds and can recall them now, surely?! And the bogies cannot be any worse than those from the Class 31 that Triang put under their 37......

 

[WesternLancer]

Interesting comments on bogies, and the ride that they gave.

Having travelled on the Brighton Belle several times, and on a Western Region "Blue Pullman" a couple of times, my abiding memory is of the atrocious ride to be experienced on both. Serving soup on the BB was unusual, with the large bowls only half-filled to avoid unwanted spillage.

I travelled on the HST "Blue Pullman" last year, and had the usual smooth BT10 experience. A splendid day out.

I look forward to travelling on the BB again in due course, and hopefully will manage to get a full bowl of soup!

Hope you don’t have to wait too long. I guess there won’t be that many who used the Belle prior to withdrawal who will be able to ride it restored.

 

[StephenHunter]

There cannot be many who both heard the original sounds and can recall them now, surely?! And the bogies cannot be any worse than those from the Class 31 that Triang put under their 37......

Many won't care. Especially the non-enthusiasts paying three figures for tickets.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Hope you don’t have to wait too long. I guess there won’t be that many who used the Belle prior to withdrawal who will be able to ride it restored.

I imagine very few children travelled on the Belle, but there are plenty of septuagenarians around who would have already been adults in 1972. Given the units were occasionally used on Royal duties, the King - then Prince of Wales - may well have been one of them.

 

[Jan Mayen]

I travelled on the Brighton Belle as a child with mum and brother. I asked the waiter if they could ask the driver to slow down as my tea was being spilt.

 

[D6130]

I never travelled on the Brighton Belle, although I worked at Brighton in the 1980s with drivers and guards who had worked it....and I have in my possession a copy of the commemorative menu from the last run in 1972.

As a child and young teenager, I did however travel on the 4-COR/BUF/RES units on the Portsmouth Direct Line and they had very similar - if not identical - bogies to the 5-BEL units....and I can confirm that they were very rough riding at speed.

 

[Krokodil]

Surely the attraction would be running under its own power, otherwise it’s just another Pullman?

I'm sure that its bread-and-butter will be weekday lunch trips around third rail land, but there's nothing wrong with expanding its utility so that it can visit (for example) Swanage.

 

[Ashley Hill]

I'm sure that its bread-and-butter will be weekday lunch trips around third rail land, but there's nothing wrong with expanding its utility so that it can visit (for example) Swanage.

A previous post suggested dragging it around with a 33/1. I presumed this was if the electrical side wasn’t commissioned.

 

[sad1e]

A previous post suggested dragging it around with a 33/1. I presumed this was if the electrical side wasn’t commissioned.

Although a 33/1 probably wouldn't be the ideal loco to use as i don't think there are any mainline 33/1s nowadays.

The only mainline 33's i know of are D6515, 33025 and 33029 which are all /0's

 

[50002Superb]

33207 as well?

 

[sad1e]

33207 as well?

Yes , I knew I was missing one

 

[norbitonflyer]

Although a 33/1 probably wouldn't be the ideal loco to use as i don't think there are any mainline 33/1s nowadays.

The only mainline 33's i know of are D6515, 33025 and 33029 which are all /0's

Maybe a 73? Are any still fitted with EP control connections?

 

[43096]

Maybe a 73? Are any still fitted with EP control connections?

The GBRf 73/9s still have the standard Southern control jumpers, but are almost entirely dedicated to infrastructure monitoring workings.

 

[Krokodil]

Maybe a 73? Are any still fitted with EP control connections?

A 73/0 or 73/1 wouldn't be able to provide a power supply to the unit (assuming of course that the restored Belle has had ETH jumpers added in the first place). And the 73 that LSL owns is a 73/0 which have incompatible multiple working.

A 33/1 would be the best option.

 

[norbitonflyer]

A 73/0 or 73/1 wouldn't be able to provide a power supply to the unit (assuming of course that the restored Belle has had ETH jumpers added in the first place). And the 73 that LSL owns is a 73/0 which have incompatible multiple working.

A 33/1 would be the best option.

What about a 73/9?

 

[fgwrich]

Regarding the ride quality, don’t forget that the “new” Belle will ride a lot smoother with the B4/B5 bogies underneath it. This isn’t a new phenomenon either as several of the VSOE vehicles (the non-gresley vehicles) have B4/B5s under them.

 

[Krokodil]

What about a 73/9?

Would be able to provide ETS (again assuming that the unit has been modified to take a supply from a loco when off of the third rail, historically I believe it was only really the 4TCs that had the jumpers) but not work in multiple.

 

[Brightonboy]

Growing up in Brighton, as a child I rode in both the Belle and 4-CORs and can confirm the running was somewhat 'less smooth' than in CIGs and BIGs!

 

[Ashley Hill]

As i mentioned upthread, the big attraction will be running under its own power. Dragging it to Thurso or wherever will be a novelty but will no doubt make money to help support its upkeep.