Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
I guess the proof will be in the pudding (as they say) when the first 897 enters service. To see if CAF have improved on the ride quality and what the seats are like in both standard & first class. Although seats can be very subjective depending on the person.
But at least long distance services out of Kings Cross won't be all fully Hitachi (considering Grand Central are getting Hitachi units as 180 replacements)
It's "worrying" in the sense that more than 2 years after the 897 order was placed, basic traction information still hasn't been provided by London North Eastern Railway / LNER (except for @hwl very kindly since telling me that their diesel engines will be MTU 1600s, the same basic type as the 800s).
By comparison, in July 2017, around the time that the 195 and 331 order was placed, Northern posted on their website that the 195s would use MTU engines and ZF transmissions (suggesting MTU 1800 and 6-speed Ecomat/EcoLife) and that the 331s would use ABB transformers and CAF traction packages (although the inclusion of TSA traction motors in the CAF traction packages wasn't mentioned).
Yes, but maybe there are people who don't need to know but would like to know, you know? Also, as Northern did provide basic traction information in their 195/331 press release, I'm not sure what's stopping LNER from providing the equivalent information in their 897 press releases.
So, more than 2 years after we got exterior renders of the 897s, we now have interior mockups of them, but there still seems to be a worrying lack of information about (admittedly, not so "customer facing") the traction of these units.
Why so? Everywhere they're likely to operate on diesel the line speed will probably 100mph at best. You're not getting above 100mph going to Harrogate, Hull, Lincoln or Middlesbrough. None of the diversionary routes like the Tyne Valley, Durham Coast or the Joint Line are going to be going over 100mph. Maybe a few stretches north of Edinburgh where you get 110mph? But I could be imagining that, either way it would only be very short stretches.
There aren't any of those either, so there isn't any need for the 897 to be capable of doing more than 100 mph on diesel. I don't know what was actually specified though!
There is little point in them having high diesel hp because nearly all their routes have much lower speeds off the wires (typically 65-90mph, few miles at 100mph).
Wrong, the speeds they need to do on the non electrified branches off the ECML are all sub 100mph and often much lower (Harrogate is 65mph max), hence installed diesel power can be much lower than 80x, because it doesn't need it be as high. This enable both capex and opex to be reduced though having fewer engines.
Many thanks - do you know how many of them per unit, and what power output they'll be set to? Now I can't wait to hear the combination of "800" diesel engines with (presumably) "397" traction motors
I hadn't seen the "fewer engines" part when I first read your reply. So you're saying that this 10-car unit may well have fewer than 5 MTU 1600 engines - 4, or even 3?
Yes, but maybe there are people who don't need to know but would like to know, you know? Also, as Northern did provide basic traction information in their 195/331 press release, I'm not sure what's stopping LNER from providing the equivalent information in their 897 press releases.
If you want to know, put a Freedom of Information Act request in. Unless it's commercial in confidence due to things not being signed yet, they will just tell you.
I would agree that baffling "normals" by telling them what engines are in it is not necessary. The difference from other TOCs is just that LNER have a pretty well oiled PR machine whereas when the likes of Northern have been talking about new fleets they've just got technical directors and the likes talking about them, not PR bods, and technical directors love talking about, well, technical things like the precise specification. Normal passengers don't care about the precise specification, they care that it's got enough seats, that they aren't like sitting on a metal bar, that there are enough toilets etc.
If you want to know, put a Freedom of Information Act request in. Unless it's commercial in confidence due to things not being signed yet, they will just tell you.
I would agree that baffling "normals" by telling them what engines are in it is not necessary. ———- Normal passengers don't care about the precise specification, they care that it's got enough seats, that they aren't like sitting on a metal bar, that there are enough toilets etc.
If you want to know, put a Freedom of Information Act request in. Unless it's commercial in confidence due to things not being signed yet, they will just tell you.
I would agree that baffling "normals" by telling them what engines are in it is not necessary. The difference from other TOCs is just that LNER have a pretty well oiled PR machine whereas when the likes of Northern have been talking about new fleets they've just got technical directors and the likes talking about them, not PR bods, and technical directors love talking about, well, technical things like the precise specification. Normal passengers don't care about the precise specification, they care that it's got enough seats, that they aren't like sitting on a metal bar, that there are enough toilets etc.
@Bletchleyite To be fair, yes, I could make a Freedom of Information request. Thanks for that suggestion (although maybe @hwl would be up for providing information on the quantity per unit of MTU 1600 engines and their power ratings), and for the explanation on London North Eastern Railway and Northern taking different approaches.
Many thanks - do you know how many of them per unit, and what power output they'll be set to? Now I can't wait to hear the combination of "800" diesel engines with (presumably) "397" traction motors
I still think that excuses for poor seating being blamed on fire and crash regulations is a load of rubbish.
I bet commercial airliners have more stringent of both regulations and they manage to get quite comfortable seating that people sit on for 10+ hours. Doing only one or two on some of these modern train seats is bad enough!
I still think that excuses for poor seating being blamed on fire and crash regulations is a load of rubbish.
I bet commercial airliners have more stringent of both regulations and they manage to get quite comfortable seating that people sit on for 10+ hours. Doing only one or two on some of these modern train seats is bad enough!
I still think that excuses for poor seating being blamed on fire and crash regulations is a load of rubbish.
I bet commercial airliners have more stringent of both regulations and they manage to get quite comfortable seating that people sit on for 10+ hours. Doing only one or two on some of these modern train seats is bad enough!
Plus it's odd to me how different the supposed regulations are to mainland Europe, where you can still routinely travel on new trains with comfortable, sometimes extremely comfortable, seating, plus silly smooth ride quality.
That is a matter of personal taste. You might like it, others will not. Leather done badly does look quite cheap, tacky and uninviting. The first class colour scheme in the pictures does look a little garish.
London North Eastern Railway (LNER) CAF Civity Class 897 Serenza 10-car tri-mode multiple unit
Exterior render, Standard Class mockup, Café Bar mockup and First Class mockup all together
Although I'm not the biggest fan of the LNER livery, I think it looks a little bit better here than on the 800/801s. I wonder if they'll keep the yellow front for fleet uniformity or if they'll go with black like the 397s.
Although I'm not the biggest fan of the LNER livery, I think it looks a little bit better here than on the 800/801s. I wonder if they'll keep the yellow front for fleet uniformity or if they'll go with black like the 397s.
Possibly not given that GBR is coming within the next few years, and it's not unknown for initial concept art to be different from the final design. Eurostar's 374 fleet was originally mocked up in the original white livery before the fleet was actually delivered in the rebranded blue.
With the context that "purchase" in TOC terms means leasing charges which will be Opex to them, not Capex (the Rosco, or lender, bears the capital cost).
There might well be capital needed for depot expansion or infrastructure changes - Network Rail will pick up that cost (as Capex) and add it to the TOC access charges as long-term Opex.
Either way, the DfT has to authorise the extra spend.
Apparently the planned introduction for these trains is 2028, so they could very well be the first fleet introduced under the Great British Railways brand from the start rather than being units rebranded from a previous livery. This despite the fact it's interior is still very much of the LNER colour scheme. Easily the most confusing thing about the rebranding will be the lack of consistently coloured seating even if the 897 interiors are changed during construction.
Apparently the planned introduction for these trains is 2028, so they could very well be the first fleet introduced under the Great British Railways brand from the start rather than being units rebranded from a previous livery. This despite the fact it's interior is still very much of the LNER colour scheme. Easily the most confusing thing about the rebranding will be the lack of consistently coloured seating even if the 897 interiors are changed during construction.
Apparently the planned introduction for these trains is 2028, so they could very well be the first fleet introduced under the Great British Railways brand from the start rather than being units rebranded from a previous livery. This despite the fact it's interior is still very much of the LNER colour scheme. Easily the most confusing thing about the rebranding will be the lack of consistently coloured seating even if the 897 interiors are changed during construction.
Maybe GBR will decide that the interior colour scheme becomes the default long-distance scheme (shades of the red InterCity scheme), although some fragile egos will no doubt shout and scream that the interior should be covered in flags.
Surely the doors between First and Standard will be frosted in the final version... though I wish the screens could be smaller / switch off at times, as there's often more than an hour between stops.
Are those USB-A ports at the table seats in standard?. If they are, it seems a slight retrograde step when USB-C ports are being introduced to other fleet's currently being refurbished.
Are those USB-A ports at the table seats in standard?. If they are, it seems a slight retrograde step when USB-C ports are being introduced to other fleet's currently being refurbished.
Are those USB-A ports at the table seats in standard?. If they are, it seems a slight retrograde step when USB-C ports are being introduced to other fleet's currently being refurbished.
As with the LNER Azuma trains, each seat will have its own plug socket, along with the introduction of USB-C ports for phone charging. At table seats, sockets and USB-C ports will feature in a power bar on the tabletop.
At least EMR had the best way when it came to dealing with USB sockets by including both USB-C & the older type, at least on the table seats of a 170. Give the passengers the option
We are aware of an issue with emails from the Forum to Microsoft-based email accounts (hotmail/outlook/live.com email addresses). This is being looked into currently, thanks for your patience meanwhile.
Also, as Northern did provide basic traction information in their 195/331 press release, I'm not sure what's stopping LNER from providing the equivalent information in their 897 press releases.
