P156KWJ
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Cancelled last night due to an emergency possession following the OLE damage caused by wind. Testing postponed, but hopefully not for long.
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West Midlands Trains "Destination Manchester" - will it happen?
- Thread starter SeanM1997
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tfw756rider
On Moderation
It's surprising which operators are on there now. Even a few future ones in the drop-down menu.
I'd forgotten about this proposal...
Am I right in thinking this would be an extension of the current LNWR Crewe - Euston service or will it be a separate service?
The existing Crewe - Euston service has been quite reliable recently and the 10 car 730s have given it a nice capacity boost, I now even get a seat on my way home from work, but I do worry about what extending it to Manchester will do to it's punctuality.
Am I right in thinking this would be an extension of the current LNWR Crewe - Euston service or will it be a separate service?
The existing Crewe - Euston service has been quite reliable recently and the 10 car 730s have given it a nice capacity boost, I now even get a seat on my way home from work, but I do worry about what extending it to Manchester will do to it's punctuality.
Kite159
Veteran Member
It's going to be an extension of the Stafford - Crewe service (at both ends)
Ah okay thanks.
That was the Euston - Man Victoria service which has been put back on the shelf for now/ever.
Yeah I remember now!
From a purely selfish point of view, I hope it stays on the shelf gathering dust.
That would be a shame as it was definitely be welcomed by many passengers who currently connect at Crewe.
Probably the most common ticket I see on the LNR Crewe - Euston services.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The problem is that it would cause serious overcrowding even on ten car sets or they would have to crank fares up. It would be massively popular given Avanti's rather higher fares as it would come up cheapest in pretty much every search from Manchester to London. The change adds a barrier so only people where money was a priority will do it, e.g. hardly any business passengers will.
The huge popularity of the WMT Birmingham service shows what it would look like.
frodshamfella
Established Member
When the Birmingham NS to Liverpool LS was extended to Euston , the punctuality went down the pan. Its erratic now just doing Liverpool-Birmingham.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It was adding that erratic-ness to the not-very-resilient south WCML slows (as well as bringing Rugeley and whatever the other place was in as well) that messed it up. The Crewe service is largely separate (as it runs fast line the whole way) and Manchester Victoria isn't that much of a problem compared to Castlefield so I think it would be OK in that sense, the main concern I would have is overcrowding which would mean cranking the fares up, so I think overall it would be bad.
The overcrowding is my main concern, but also what the extension will do the punctuality, as I said in an earlier post, the Crewe services have been fairly reliable recently and the 730s seem to be bedding in nicely.
Wouldn't a better option for everyone be for the DFT to deal with Avanti's extortionate fares? If this happens, people will switch to the cheaper LNWR option, leaving plenty of unused capacity on the Avanti services which will be costing money to run up and down the WCML half empty.
Masbroughlad
Established Member
South of Crewe to the airport is good for passengers and the airport, I would say.
Will this bite the dust when LNWR goes into GBR from 01 February 2026?
Will this bite the dust when LNWR goes into GBR from 01 February 2026?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
What, will they crank the fares up? I doubt it. It's useful market segmentation, not really competition. A fairly large proportion of users likely wouldn't pay Avanti's higher fares, they'd go by coach, drive their old banger or not go at all.
The long term strategy is probably to move the cheap fares to Advances though. Which I suppose would manage overcrowding quite well, as when the fare went up to Avanti walk up levels why wouldn't you just use Avanti unless you were a particular 730 fan.
No. The DfT agreed to it in the first place, they're not going to stop something that is already planned to start late this year
Class 323 Fan
Member
They could increase the frequency if diagrams and timetables allowed, then they’d be a shortage of trains, we don’t have enough rolling stock, that’s when they may need some more 350s, which can run the shorter routes.
Clear on the northern end. Would be good to have more even timings Crewe-Stoke, but I digress. Stoke to Airport will be well-used.
So which route is it taking south of Stafford to New St? And if via Wolves, is it additional service or is something moving?
This would, one day, could an interesting one to relocate to Curzon St, if all the works are done. Similarly to how the Manchester-Stoke stopper has been mentioned.
So which route is it taking south of Stafford to New St? And if via Wolves, is it additional service or is something moving?
This would, one day, could an interesting one to relocate to Curzon St, if all the works are done. Similarly to how the Manchester-Stoke stopper has been mentioned.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Of the number of spare path requirements into Manchester Airport railway station, were there any thought of as being to serve rail services from the Calder Valley line on the existing four-platform allocations?
Doesn't that depend on getting the Castlefield Corridor to work properly?
Interesting - so would it be an additional / third service on that route and to call at the new Darlaston / Willenhall stations? As the Shrewbury will pass, as well as the Walsall-Wolves shuttle?
And yes, hopefully it's useful at a regional level, Stoke-Brum.
The Planner
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 15 Apr 2008
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- 19,686
No one will use it for that, it takes too long. Its 50 minutes on XC, it will be nigh on 20 minutes longer on the Airport service.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
With regard to any Bee Network rail proposals for the Styal Line, it must be remembered that the Manchester Airport - Styal - Wilmslow part of the Styal Line are in Cheshire East, not in Greater Manchester.
I wonder if any survey has even been carried out, stating the numbers of visitors from Greater Manchester who use Styal railway station to access the female HM Prison, Styal, or the National Trust property at Quarry Bank Mill. Both are but a short walk away from the railway station.
I wonder if any survey has even been carried out, stating the numbers of visitors from Greater Manchester who use Styal railway station to access the female HM Prison, Styal, or the National Trust property at Quarry Bank Mill. Both are but a short walk away from the railway station.
Lewisham2221
Established Member
If it's priced right they might. I would.
The Planner
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 15 Apr 2008
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Not convinced. The XC is 7 minutes behind it at Stoke, it will overtake it between Wolves and New St. They are going to have to seriously undercut it.
Source required for both claims!
Bevan Price
Established Member
- Joined
- 22 Apr 2010
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- 8,330
We will have to wait and see. People who regularly encounter grossly overcrowded XC trains will probably prefer a slower journey but with an almost guaranteed chance of getting a seat.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
If the price is right they will. Brum to Euston via Northampton is way slower.
If it's the service via Stone it's limited to 4 car, though, so you won't want it too popular.
This brings back painful memories of the Crewe service going via Northampton!
weeklycommuter
Member
- Joined
- 2 Feb 2019
- Messages
- 1,039
The DfT cannot approve paths, only the Office of Rail and Road can do that. That is likely to change when the Railways Bill becomes law and Great British Railways is created but that is not expected until next year 2027. Until then an application for paths is needed and I still do not see one either on the ORR website or the Network Rail website.