CrossCountry charging tickets for luggage on seats

[SCDR_WMR]

The piece concept makes no sense for trains. A number of small pieces are easier to stow than one large one.

I don't disagree with this, I was really only counting large suitcases as small items don't often get on the way as there are multiple places to stow them

 

[amahy]

The lack of a safety critical member of staff is a valid reason.

There are many other TOCs running double units with no end gangways and no “safety critical” staff in one of the units. And other TOCs running trains with no staff whatsoever other than the driver! Also, if the train is completely crush loaded full, how is the “safety critical” staff member supposed to get down the train quickly if there is an emergency?

(Apologies for the off topic, I know this already has its own thread).

 

[Russel]

Does that also mean that when there are no seats available, I can request a refund from XC?

It's often highlighted in here that you pay to travel, not a seat, so XC can't have it both ways...

 

[Halwynd]

I never put my backpack on a seat, I just don't think it's good manners on public transport but, equally, I'm not particularly bothered by those who do if the train is nowhere near full. Feet are another matter where the penalty should be horsewhipping without mercy...

But... I become irritated to oblivion with those who place their possessions on the window seat and then sit themselves on the aisle seat. There's just something that smacks of arrogance and entitlement about it. If folk don't want someone sat next to them, and I can sometimes understand why, they should pay for a First Class seat.

 

[Russel]

There are many other TOCs running double units with no end gangways and no “safety critical” staff in one of the units. And other TOCs running trains with no staff whatsoever other than the driver! Also, if the train is completely crush loaded full, how is the “safety critical” staff member supposed to get down the train quickly if there is an emergency?

(Apologies for the off topic, I know this already has its own thread).

I fully agree it's a ridiculous situation, almost laughable.

 

[AlterEgo]

If the customer has a legal amount of luggage and there is nowhere to safely store it than on a seat then I don't think any dispute will end nicely for the TOC.

 

[transportphoto]

If the customer has a legal amount of luggage and there is nowhere to safely store it than on a seat then I don't think any dispute will end nicely for the TOC.

It’s worth bearing in mind that there isn’t a “legal amount of luggage” - the three items of luggage per person has the exclusion that you’re not entitled to take three items if there is not enough room for it. (23.1.2 NRCOC).

I agree with sentiments that there’s no provision to make charge; you’d be refused travel due to there being no room for your luggage.

 

[Port Road]

I become irritated to oblivion with those who place their possessions on the window seat and then sit themselves on the aisle seat. There's just something that smacks of arrogance and entitlement about it. If folk don't want someone sat next to them, and I can sometimes understand why, they should pay for a First Class seat.

Agree 100%.

 

[AlterEgo]

It’s worth bearing in mind that there isn’t a “legal amount of luggage” - the three items of luggage per person has the exclusion that you’re not entitled to take three items if there is not enough room for it. (23.1.2 NRCOC).

In practice that will just never happen. Cannot ever recall in my years at XC a complaint from anyone denied boarding because their *luggage* wouldn't fit.

 

[transportphoto]

In practice that will just never happen. Cannot ever recall in my years at XC a complaint from anyone denied boarding because their *luggage* wouldn't fit.

I’ve personally seen it happen. Infrequent but does happen.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

I did once see someone refused boarding in the West Midlands who was struggling to get a wardrobe on board, mind. And we're not talking Ikea here. We're talking vintage.

 

[Howardh]

I once witnessed a woman allowing her dog to sit on the seat next to her, without blanket or covering. I darned well hope that's against the rules and there are severe penalties. At least luggage and coats don't leave a mess behind; although I agree there should be a penalty for people not removing them when someone wants to sit there.

 

[Krokodil]

If the train is empty or below say 33% full, I see nothing wrong with having a bag next to you

When travelling as a passenger I tend to draw the line at when there are no empty pairs of seats left - if another passenger has no choice but to sit next to someone, it's unfair to leave coats/handbags on the seat in the hope that everyone else will have to share first. Never anything bigger than a handbag or a small rucksack.

Accompanied animals & articles tickets were technically still a thing until a few years (at child rate).

That disappeared from our machines in late 2018. We were told (by someone who would have been involved, not just messroom gossip) that it was an RDG decision on the basis that no one ever bothered to charge it.

I did hear a Northampton LNR guard make almost the exact same announcement a few days ago. I couldn't help but laugh out loud. Especially knowing there is no option for it on our ticketing machines!

Usually the threat I've heard from XC guards going back years was that they'd charge a child's fare. It's a threat I've occasionally adopted myself over the PA - it has always worked - sometimes with a "do you need a hand putting that on the rack?" to make it clear that I've seen their bag. I've never had someone who didn't move it so have never had to follow through on the threat.

I also sometimes suggest that items left on seats "will be sat upon". Another threat that is effective with no need to actually follow through on it.

Sometimes it's just the fact that there is far too much luggage being carried overall

If you're serving airports, tourist honeypots and long distances in general then you need to provide a suitable amount of space for what on airlines would be "checked bags" or "hold luggage". I've long complained about the lack of provision on 197s, when the 175s they replaced had twice the provision and used to struggle.

In practice that will just never happen. Cannot ever recall in my years at XC a complaint from anyone denied boarding because their *luggage* wouldn't fit.

Wasn't there a thread in the past year that revolved around excess luggage at Oxford? In this case it was genuinely blocking doorways. I (not XC) have refused to move trains on many occasions when exits were blocked or cab doors obstructed.

 

[Russel]

Wasn't there a thread in the past year that revolved around excess luggage at Oxford? In this case it was genuinely blocking doorways. I (not XC) have refused to move trains on many occasions when exits were blocked or cab doors obstructed.

That's just reminded me of a London Midland Trent Valley service I was on maybe 15 years ago, I have no idea how many people were involved but someone had decided to use the area between the front cab and first set of doors as a luggage compartment, bags and suitcases piled high on every seat, table and inch of floor space, including in front of the cab door!

 

[Oscar M]

I once witnessed a woman allowing her dog to sit on the seat next to her, without blanket or covering. I darned well hope that's against the rules and there are severe penalties. At least luggage and coats don't leave a mess behind; although I agree there should be a penalty for people not removing them when someone wants to sit there.

It is.

24.2 Animals, with the exception of assistance dogs, may not be taken into buffet or restaurant cars (including first class accommodation with at-seat meals service) unless specifically allowed by the Train Company that you are using. Animals are not allowed on seats in any circumstances.

 

[Tram203]

So no, the guard probably can't charge you an extra fare for taking up a seat with luggage. But the guard can make you shift it and can make you take your luggage off the train if you won't.

It'll be off the seat before it's off the train...

 

[Sprinter107]

I never put my backpack on a seat, I just don't think it's good manners on public transport but, equally, I'm not particularly bothered by those who do if the train is nowhere near full. Feet are another matter where the penalty should be horsewhipping without mercy...

But... I become irritated to oblivion with those who place their possessions on the window seat and then sit themselves on the aisle seat. There's just something that smacks of arrogance and entitlement about it. If folk don't want someone sat next to them, and I can sometimes understand why, they should pay for a First Class seat.

I sit on an aisle seat, and it isn't to stop people sitting next to me.

I was occupying a window seat when I was very badly assaulted on a train between Oxford and Banbury some years ago. I became trapped in the seat by the three individuals carrying out the assault. Since then I always sit in an aisle seat, unless travelling with others, and even then will usually choose the aisle seat.

The same applies on a Birmingham bus, especially with the increasing anti social behaviour on those buses these days.

I certainly would never deny anyone the vacant window seat next to me.

 

[Requeststop]

I never put my backpack on a seat, I just don't think it's good manners on public transport but, equally, I'm not particularly bothered by those who do if the train is nowhere near full. Feet are another matter where the penalty should be horsewhipping without mercy...

But... I become irritated to oblivion with those who place their possessions on the window seat and then sit themselves on the aisle seat. There's just something that smacks of arrogance and entitlement about it. If folk don't want someone sat next to them, and I can sometimes understand why, they should pay for a First Class seat.

Oh yes, One of my bug bears, the sitting at the aisle with luggage/bags/coat at the window seat.

I have seen on a number of occasions, passengers, usually of the female variety, sitting at a four seat table, hogging all the seats and placing a handbag on the seat opposite them as well indicating a falsehood that the seat is occupied by another passenger who might be paying a visit to the toilet or some other activity, thus preventing others from disturbing their space.

The problem is, hardly anyone challenges these people about it, and even more frustratingly, neither do the train crew.
Personally, if I'm on a long journey, say Cornwall to London or (hardly possible these day) beyond Bristol, I have a shopping bag which I place what I need for the long journey and place it under my seat. It's a little problematic when the seat next to me has been taken, but I'll manage.

As regards feet on seats, well, horsewhipping without mercy sounds a little too lenient to me. Amputation without anaesthetic would be a more apposite remedy.

 

[Halwynd]

I sit on an aisle seat, and it isn't to stop people sitting next to me. I was occupying a window seat when I was very badly assaulted on a train between Oxford and Banbury some years ago. I became trapped in the seat by the three individuals carrying out the assault. Since then I always sit in an aisle seat, unless travelling with others, and even then will usually choose the aisle seat.
The same applies on a Birmingham bus, especially with the increasing anti social behaviour on those buses these days. I certainly would never deny anyone the vacant window seat next to me.

No problem at all sitting in an aisle seat, it's just those who then use the window seat for their belongings in the hope of depriving others of the seat. Sorry to read about your terrible experience.

Oh yes, One of my bug bears, the sitting at the aisle with luggage/bags/coat at the window seat.
I have seen on a number of occasions, passengers, usually of the female variety, sitting at a four seat table, hogging all the seats and placing a handbag on the seat opposite them as well indicating a falsehood that the seat is occupied by another passenger who might be paying a visit to the toilet or some other activity, thus preventing others from disturbing their space.
The problem is, hardly anyone challenges these people about it, and even more frustratingly, neither do the train crew.
Personally, if I'm on a long journey, say Cornwall to London or (hardly possible these day) beyond Bristol, I have a shopping bag which I place what I need for the long journey and place it under my seat. It's a little problematic when the seat next to me has been taken, but I'll manage.
As regards feet on seats, well, horsewhipping without mercy sounds a little too lenient to me. Amputation without anaesthetic would be a more apposite remedy.

I thought I was being harsh! Horsewhipping for one foot, amputation for two?

 

[Port Road]

I once heard a train manager on Avanti leaving Euston announcing "...it's a very busy service today and if anyone is struggling to find a seat and they see bags or luggage on seats, just move them as the seats are for people to sit on, and anyone found with bags on seats will be invited to buy an additional ticket..."

That's the way.

 

[Chrius56000]

. . .When I carry pieces of electronic test equipment on a train I stick it in the luggage–rack at the end of the carriage as it makes it easier to get it on and off a busy train, but if I've been able to get a table seat then I'll place the equipment on the table where I can watch it personally but I'd NOT place it on a seat as there may be outside dirt and grot on the bottom of the instrument from carrying it (a lot of it is very heavy and I sometimes have to stand it on the floor for a moment or two whilst carrying it by hand!) – many of the older bus operators used to have warnings in their printed booklets of "Terms And Conditions Of Carriage" that "we reserve the right to charge a passenger a second fare if more than one seat is occupied without good reason".

. . .I am aware of the National Rail Conditions Of Carriage, and wouldn't attempt to carry anything home by train that :–

a) Didn't have a secure carrying handle firmly attached to it ;

b) Is too large, bulky or heavy to carry by myself using my own strength!

. . .The largest things I have carried home in the past on public transport are about 15 kg in weight, usually Oscilloscopes or reel–to–reel tape recorders – anything larger than this I only buy if the seller offers delivery or I can get my friend to run me in the car to the seller's address directly!

 

[MartinC]

With the exception of potentially Lumo, which operators are those?


Grand Central, admittedly on their proposed, Waterside Route

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Jan 2026 ==

Not defending the entitled bastards who prioritise their own convenience over others' comfort, but solutions are not always simple. Issue luggage tags (compulsory) with tickets? More for the guard to do...

Eurostar conditions require all luggage to be labelled but I have never seen it enforced.

 

[trainophile]

It would help if overhead racks were deep enough to stow average size cases and backpacks in. Some are, some aren't, and what are you supposed to do with your modest amount of baggage if it won't fit in the overhead, or the overhead and the other luggage areas are full?

I too favour aisle seats as it avoids disturbing people to go to the loo, or at my destination. Also I once moved across to the window seat on a busy WMR train, only to have a giant of a bloke (both height and width) squash me into half my seat (no armrests). Happy to let people take the window seat but I'm not moving over. Also I can't stand the sun in my eyes.

I'm guilty of putting a bag on the window seat if the train isn't busy, but as it fills up I usually try to squash it under the seat in front, and hug my smaller baggage.

They don't call modern trains cattle class for nothing, it seems we're paying to be transported with no frills at all, unless you pay top whack for 1st Class.

 

[DelW]

It is.

National Rail Conditions of Travel said:
24.2 Animals, with the exception of assistance dogs, may not be taken into buffet or restaurant cars (including first class accommodation with at-seat meals service) unless specifically allowed by the Train Company that you are using. Animals are not allowed on seats in any circumstances.

Clause 24.2 which you quoted, appears to refer only to areas with food service. If the sentence which (I assume) you emboldened is meant to apply to all seats, it ought really to be in a separate clause, to make it clear that it applied everywhere. (Which would be a good thing in my opinion, animals shouldn't be allowed on any seats.)

 

[orestad]

If that joke gets those travelling with luggage scared enough to move the suitcases and bags somewhere safer, I don’t see what’s wrong with it ;p

Obviously it’s not a rule that’s within Network Rail’s CoT as others have pointed out, but I do feel like that has to be some kind of penalty to those that bring way too much luggage and put them on the seats especially. Unfortunately you can’t do much if guards/TMs aren’t on board the service or don’t walk down the carriages. TOCs like Lumo and Grand Central that have strict luggage restrictions are doing something right because they do actually enforce ridiculous amounts of luggage and threaten them with penalties or denial of travel and it might make those people think twice about overpacking. I get especially annoyed if they’ve got them on priority seats because it becomes a hassle taking them off and finding somewhere else to put them and I don’t find that respectful at all.

 

[DarloRich]

Please do not put your luggage on the seats, if myself or my revenue team see any luggage on a seat, we will charge the person next to it a second ticket for it."

Good. Put your luggage in the rack or don't bring it.

Why, WHY, can't people travel light? You see people with cases the size of a planet all the time.

I can go away for a week with a small laptop sized bag. Why can't you?

Edit: you and in people not you as in the OP!

 

[AlterEgo]

Good. Put your luggage in the rack or don't bring it.

Why, WHY, can't people travel light? You see people with cases the size of a planet all the time.

I can go away for a week with a small laptop sized bag. Why can't you?

Why should everyone be like you?

 

[amahy]

Why, WHY, can't people travel light? You see people with cases the size of a planet all the time.

I can go away for a week with a small laptop sized bag. Why can't you?

Edit: you and in people not you as in the OP!

Because many people may be going away for longer than a week. I don't think people bringing too much luggage is the problem here, it's trains not having enough luggage space. Trains used to have luggage vans for heavy items, much like the big luggage compartments coaches and planes still have. So why were they abandoned on trains, but not on other modes of transport? Its not like people randomly stopped needing to take stuff with them!

 

[Russel]

Good. Put your luggage in the rack or don't bring it.

Why, WHY, can't people travel light? You see people with cases the size of a planet all the time.

I can go away for a week with a small laptop sized bag. Why can't you?

Edit: you and in people not you as in the OP!

You can fit a weeks worth of clean clothes in a laptop bag?

 

[tehmarks]

You can fit a weeks worth of clean clothes in a laptop bag?

I can fit a week's worth of clean clothes in my normal-sized work backpack - in addition to tools, safety shoes, journal, book, technical essentials, a sketchbook and stationery. In outdoors mode I can live indefinitely out of a 50L backpack - clothes, shelter, cooking, electronics, etc.