CrossCountry charging tickets for luggage on seats

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I don't know if I've got the same train manager twice in a row, but the last two Fridays I've taken XC's 10:24 Manchester Picc - Bournemouth train from the origin to Reading, and on both last week's and today's trains there has been this announcement, while the train was still less than a third full, mind you:

"Please do not put your luggage on the seats, if myself or my revenue team see any luggage on a seat, we will charge the person next to it a second ticket for it."

Now I don't know if this is actually a new rule (and if they'd ever get away with enforcing it), or if it's the same train manager trying to be a comedian (and plenty do, I constantly get the same infuriating CSA on my Reading Manchester commute making the same jokes down the tannoy) - has anyone else heard this?

FYI, this isn't a discussion about luggage on seats, we know it's not courteous when customers might be standing, so no need for any self-righteous comments about that I just want to know if, were this an actual threat, CrossCountry would actually be able to get away with charging someone.

(Meanwhile, the train is now getting busier and I have a CrossCountry staff member sat in the seat behind me, shouting down the phone in full uniform, so that seems a bit ironic while we've got the TM telling us to be more mindful of others on the PA )

 

[bleeder4]

I would support such a policy. If one person wants to take up 2 seats, they should be paying for both seats.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I would support such a policy. If one person wants to take up 2 seats, they should be paying for both seats.

What you'd have then though, is the train filling up and then standing customers attempting to sit in the empty seat paid for by the person next to it, and then all sorts of arguments.

However, I'm less interested in whether or not people think it'd be a good idea (I'm not interested in a speculative discussion), and more about if this sort of policy (if implemented) is even legal?

 

[zwk500]

I just want to know if, were this an actual threat, CrossCountry would actually be able to get away with charging someone.

Probably not, although might need to be a 'pay now, lodge appeal after' situation if the on-board staff are insistent. I know people do buy second airline seats for various reasons, obviously UK trains don't have checked bags so slightly different situation.

The NRCoT don't say you may be charged anything extra for luggage occupying a seat:

XC may argue that 23.1.7 could apply here but then this would need to be advertised when purchasing the tickets.

Sections 23.1.2 and 23.1.3 would appear to be applicable here, and it's not clear what the penalty/requirement actually is for when these become relevant. Arguably XC could require you to move your luggage until it satisfies the conditions, or require you to leave the train and then store your luggage or wait for a less busy service that can take the luggage, but it's not specified in section 23 anywhere.

There is a general warning in the introduction that:

If you breach these Conditions, you may be liable to enforcement action by the Train Companies, including criminal liability in some circumstances as set out below.

I couldn't find any further definition of enforcement action within the NRCoT, so it's not clear what XC would be able to do if you had more luggage than could fit (especially if the problem was that everybody had 1 case rather than 1 person having 4 cases, as the problem is no single passenger is in breach, it's a cumulative effect and would be deeply unfair to penalise the last person on because XC don't have enough luggage space).

https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e8xgegruud3g/5IgHi2XuUatwG68aNDLr1E/61a268420f9e051431e2adca8fdd2e12/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Travel_2025.pdf

 

[Tram203]

I would support such a policy. If one person wants to take up 2 seats, they should be paying for both seats.

Point of order - passengers don't pay for seats.

 

[Djgr]

Sounds total nonsense. It is not in the gift of the guard/conductor/customer host to make such a charge.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

He's now done another announcement worded differently, "If anyone would like a seat for their luggage, when I walk through next I'll be happy to charge you for one!" I have messaged XC and asked if this is new policy.

 

[Peter0124]

If the train is empty or below say 33% full, I see nothing wrong with having a bag next to you

 

[robbeech]

Point of order - passengers don't pay for seats.

I think this is all that is needed here. You pay to travel on a service or services, seat reservations are free so there is simply no way they can charge you for a seat for your bag in the same way that they couldn’t charge you for a seat for yourself.

Of course the regulations already noted do and alway will apply.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

If the train is empty or below say 33% full, I see nothing wrong with having a bag next to you

Quite. The issue is only if someone does not move the bag when the seat is then required.

 

[KNN]

Quite. The issue is only if someone does not move the bag when the seat is then required.

It shouldn't be on the person without a seat to ask, though. XC are especially bad, in my experience, for overcrowding so I support this attempt to make the point you can't take up two seats.

 

[zwk500]

If the train is empty or below say 33% full, I see nothing wrong with having a bag next to you

Some suitcases can be dirty from being wheeled through a muddy or wet street, although 99% of rucksacks would be absolutely fine.

It shouldn't be on the person without a seat to ask, though. XC are especially bad, in my experience, for overcrowding so I support this attempt to make the point you can't take up two seats.

Agree. If there's spare seats then I don't care, but if people are standing there should be absolutely no bags on seats, and it's the owners responsibility to be aware of others and move for them.

However there doesn't seem to be any basis for XC to actually implement charging a 2nd ticket for luggage, so I expect it's just a bit of a play (possibly intended as a bit jokey) by the XC guard to incentivise people to actually move their bags.
As I mentioned earlier, if the issue is that everybody has 1 case and the luggage storage is simply insufficient, then it does not seem to be 'putting passengers first' to penalise those who have boarded the train later and have nowhere to store their bags because of the TOC.

 

[Belperpete]

Probably not, although might need to be a 'pay now, lodge appeal after' situation if the on-board staff are insistent. I know people do buy second airline seats for various reasons, obviously UK trains don't have checked bags so slightly different situation.

The NRCoT don't say you may be charged anything extra for luggage occupying a seat:
View attachment 196443
XC may argue that 23.1.7 could apply here but then this would need to be advertised when purchasing the tickets.

Sections 23.1.2 and 23.1.3 would appear to be applicable here, and it's not clear what the penalty/requirement actually is for when these become relevant. Arguably XC could require you to move your luggage until it satisfies the conditions, or require you to leave the train and then store your luggage or wait for a less busy service that can take the luggage, but it's not specified in section 23 anywhere.

There is a general warning in the introduction that:

I couldn't find any further definition of enforcement action within the NRCoT, so it's not clear what XC would be able to do if you had more luggage than could fit (especially if the problem was that everybody had 1 case rather than 1 person having 4 cases, as the problem is no single passenger is in breach, it's a cumulative effect and would be deeply unfair to penalise the last person on because XC don't have enough luggage space).

https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e8xgegruud3g/5IgHi2XuUatwG68aNDLr1E/61a268420f9e051431e2adca8fdd2e12/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Travel_2025.pdf

Note that the wording is "may cause an inconvenience", not that it is actually causing an inconvenience. So even though it may not currently be causing an inconvenience, if it could cause an inconvenience later on the journey when the train becomes fuller, it could be argued that you are in breach.

And if you are in breach of the NRCoT, is your ticket valid?

 

[class 9]

Additional luggage charges
There may be additional luggage charges if any of the following conditions apply:

You’re bringing more than 3 items

Your luggage occupies seats which are needed for passenger use

Your luggage is larger than 1 metre in any dimension. Please note that you must be able to carry large luggage without assistance. If not, it isn’t permitted onboard

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Jan 2026 ==

Additional luggage charges
There may be additional luggage charges if any of the following conditions apply:

You’re bringing more than 3 items

Your luggage occupies seats which are needed for passenger use

Your luggage is larger than 1 metre in any dimension. Please note that you must be able to carry large luggage without assistance. If not, it isn’t permitted onboard

This is from the National Rail app, sorry couldn't post it as a link.

 

[zwk500]

Additional luggage charges
There may be additional luggage charges if any of the following conditions apply:

You’re bringing more than 3 items

Your luggage occupies seats which are needed for passenger use

Your luggage is larger than 1 metre in any dimension. Please note that you must be able to carry large luggage without assistance. If not, it isn’t permitted onboard

Where are these conditions from? Edit: was answered while posting.

CrossCountry's website only says

Any luggage in excess of the National Rail Conditions of Travel may be subject to an additional charge on-board our services

Train Luggage | Onboard Luggage Facilities | CrossCountry Trains

Information on luggage allowance and storage facilities on CrossCountry trains. Discover options for large amounts of luggage here.

www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk

Note it is described as an additional charge, not a ticket.

 

[Mainline421]

Accompanied animals & articles tickets were technically still a thing until a few years ago (at child rate).

 

[JamesT]

I think this is all that is needed here. You pay to travel on a service or services, seat reservations are free so there is simply no way they can charge you for a seat for your bag in the same way that they couldn’t charge you for a seat for yourself.

Of course the regulations already noted do and alway will apply.

The seat reservation may not be an additional cost on top of the ticket price, but at least some operators will refund you if you're unable to get a seat. So for those at least, you _are_ paying for a seat, it's just included in the ticket price.

 

[amahy]

Of course, it’s always the customer’s fault that XC trains don’t have enough luggage space and are too short. How about a policy where you can pay extra to sit in the rear set of a double voyager where it is locked out for next to no valid reason? Or, if you can pay a second fare to have a bag on a seat, how about a policy where the guard comes down the train, refunding everyone that doesn’t have a seat?

 

[SCDR_WMR]

I did hear a Northampton LNR guard make almost the exact same announcement a few days ago. I couldn't help but laugh out loud. Especially knowing there is no option for it on our ticketing machines!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The seat reservation may not be an additional cost on top of the ticket price, but at least some operators will refund you if you're unable to get a seat. So for those at least, you _are_ paying for a seat, it's just included in the ticket price.

With the exception of potentially Lumo, which operators are those?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Jan 2026 ==

I did hear a Northampton LNR guard make almost the exact same announcement a few days ago. I couldn't help but laugh out loud. Especially knowing there is no option for it on our ticketing machines!

It is funny once, but after two or three times on the same service it starts to feel less like humour and more like being scolded.

 

[185143]

I've just spent over 5 hours on an XC Voyager and heard no mention of such things. I was in 1st and the carriage was actually reasonably well filled.

Standard was busy with a few standing in the usual busy points but they'd have easily got seats if they'd sat next to someone.

@TT-ONR-NRN LNER have a "Seat Guarantee" if you've reserved one, no idea about any others.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Of course, it’s always the customer’s fault that XC trains don’t have enough luggage space and are too short. How about a policy where you can pay extra to sit in the rear set of a double voyager where it is locked out for next to no valid reason?

And yet a brand new 10 car 730 will often struggle with luggage despite luggage racks in each carriage and plenty of overhead storage!

Sometimes it's just the fact that there is far too much luggage being carried overall. 1 case for most and then 3-5 pieces for some. Might as well get rid of seats and just have luggage vans again.

 

[robbeech]

With the exception of potentially Lumo, which operators are those?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Jan 2026 ==

As 185143 says, LNER have this policy and they’re quite happy to remind people of it. EMR will also refund or part refund for this, and I think several other operators will consider it if you had a seat booked and were unable to use it and couldn’t find another, I suspect XC won’t be keen to do this, it comes back down to the old railway attitude of why do something when you can not do something and be no worse off.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The National Rail website says this:

Additional luggage charges
There may be additional luggage charges if any of the following conditions apply:
You’re bringing more than 3 items
Your luggage occupies seats which are needed for passenger use
Your luggage is larger than 1 metre in any dimension.

Please note that you must be able to carry large luggage without assistance. If not, it isn’t permitted onboard

Please contact your train company if you have any questions.

However, there is no provision in the NRCoT to charge an extra fee for luggage on seats. The NRCoT simply says:

23.1 You may take up to three items of luggage into the passenger accommodation of a train unless:
23.1.1 your luggage is such that it may cause injury, inconvenience or a nuisance or it may cause damage to property;
23.1.2 there is not enough room for it;
23.1.3 your luggage would obstruct doorways, gangways or corridors...

So no, the guard probably can't charge you an extra fare for taking up a seat with luggage. But the guard can make you shift it and can make you take your luggage off the train if you won't.

With the exception of potentially Lumo, which operators are those?

Most intercity operators will offer you some Delay Repay compensation if you have reserved a seat and you are unable to find any seat on the train. The schemes are of varying generosity. LNER will offer up to 100% of the cost of a single, GWR will offer up to 50% of the cost of a single. XC, in contrast, will offer 5% of the cost of a single.

 

[185143]

And yet a brand new 10 car 730 will often struggle with luggage despite luggage racks in each carriage and plenty of overhead storage!

Sometimes it's just the fact that there is far too much luggage being carried overall. 1 case for most and then 3-5 pieces for some. Might as well get rid of seats and just have luggage vans again.

Really?

I'm obviously happy to bow to your expertise but I'm genuinely very surprised by that.

I'm on a pair on Monday afternoon needing to store my (small case and rucksack) luggage so I'll report back. The one time I've been on them before needing to store a large case it's not been a problem at all.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Really?

I'm obviously happy to bow to your expertise but I'm genuinely very surprised by that.

I'm on a pair on Monday afternoon needing to store my (small case and rucksack) luggage so I'll report back. The one time I've been on them before needing to store a large case it's not been a problem at all.

I mean obviously it will vary train to train, and certainly day to day. But even yesterday evening I had far too many large cases for the racks and barely a spare seat out of Euston. Lot of seat come available after Rugby, but those with luggage tend to change at Tamworth/Stafford/Crewe.

 

[ThirteenArches]

Of course, the person in the seat next to thge luggage could deny ownership, and say the occupant of the seat had gone to the toilet or something. Which could be true if someone doesn't wantb to come back and find someone 's in their seat. The guard would then have the option of hanging round and waiting for "someone" to come back, and not continuing with his ticket round, or perhaps invoking sisis and flagging the luggage as a potential terrorist threat, or walking on. The second option would of course involve evacuating the train while it's sorted.

Not defending the entitled bastards who prioritise their own convenience over others' comfort, but solutions are not always simple. Issue luggage tags (compulsory) with tickets? More for the guard to do...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sometimes it's just the fact that there is far too much luggage being carried overall. 1 case for most and then 3-5 pieces for some. Might as well get rid of seats and just have luggage vans again.

The piece concept makes no sense for trains. A number of small pieces are easier to stow than one large one.

I don't agree, though. Most people in my observation have an IATA trolley and something like a laptop bag. The ones who appear to be moving house are very visible but I find them to be rare on the trains I use, though I get they may be more prevalent on "bucket and spade" routes.

The problem on XC is because of the tiny overheads.

 

[185143]

The piece concept makes no sense for trains. A number of small pieces are easier to stow than one large one.

I don't agree, though. Most people in my observation have an IATA trolley and something like a laptop bag. The ones who appear to be moving house are very visible but I find them to be rare on the trains I use, though I get they may be more prevalent on "bucket and spade" routes.

The problem on XC is because of the tiny overheads.

Yes!

The case I'm travelling with now will easily fit on the overheads on an IET. It's marginally too big to be a carry on for BA, though I've got away with it the one time I've tried it.

Wasn't even close to being able to fit in the overheads on the Voyager I've just been on, so went in the stack at the end of the carriage.

 

[Haywain]

a double voyager where it is locked out for next to no valid reason?

The lack of a safety critical member of staff is a valid reason.